Owenership of a boat for sale

[MtB]

When buying anything expensive, like a house or a car or boat, it is a Good Idea to make sure the person selling it actually owns it and has the right to sell it. Going on from here, it is also a Good Idea to check there is no outstanding finance secured on the asset.

 

For houses, this service is provided by the Land Registry. For cars, an HPI check can be purchased. How does one check that a boat for sale privately (e.g. on ApolloDuck) is being sold legitimately? Will British Waterways confirm the name/address of a the person to whom a boat is registered?

 

I susppose one just has to take a chance on the 'finance outstanding' issue. How does one protect against a finance company appearing out of the blue and repossessing the boat a few months after you've bought privately, like they can a car?

 

All advice most welcome.

 

Cheers, Mike

Edited November 10, 2008 by mike bryant

[WJM]

Absolutely right - there is no definitive way of checking. You just have to try and work it out from the clues, and then hope for the best. I buy big expensive 'things' all the time for my work and I found buying a used boat very uncomfortable for that reason. It is the only time I have ever parted with a big lump of money without having a clear view of the title.

Edited November 10, 2008 by WJM

[MtB]

Absolutely right - there is no definitive way of checking. You just have to try and work it out from the clues, and then hope for the best. I buy big expensive 'things' all the time for my work and I found buying a used boat very uncomfortable for that reason. It is the only time I have ever parted with a big lump of money without having a clear view of the title.

 

 

Best protection seems to me to be in ID checking the vendor, so they can be traced and sued if it turns out they didn't have good title.

 

I phoned BW just now and they were able to confirm the name of the boat matches the reg number and that the name I gave them for the vendor is the same as the name they have recorded as licence holder. NOT quite the same as confirmation of ownership but pretty close.

 

Just need to find out whether the licence holder is a real person now..... Fortunately they have a home address on dry land so that shouldn't be too tricky. Posting payment to that address then confirms the vendor is who they say they are! Would have been virtually impossible had they been an itinerant liveaboard....

 

The finance issue seems virtually impossible to crack. Must be tricky for the lenders too, from the opposite perspective. Maybe boat finance is actually unsecured and the cars situation is a special case.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Gary Peacock]

You have to be very careful, we are still owed a payment on a new boat built 4 years ago when the customer did a runner. We know where it is and have tried the obvious routes to get the money with no joy but the rumour is the owner is now about to sell the boat, but he will have problems because we still hold all the paperwork and technically still own a share of the boat.

 

This is the unfortunate kind of thing that can bite buyers if you are not careful.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[johnthebridge]

Best protection seems to me to be in ID checking the vendor, so they can be traced and sued if it turns out they didn't have good title.

 

I phoned BW just now and they were able to confirm the name of the boat matches the reg number and that the name I gave them for the vendor is the same as the name they have recorded as licence holder. NOT quite the same as confirmation of ownership but pretty close.

 

Just need to find out whether the licence holder is a real person now..... Fortunately they have a home address on dry land so that shouldn't be too tricky. Posting payment to that address then confirms the vendor is who they say they are! Would have been virtually impossible had they been an itinerant liveaboard....

 

The finance issue seems virtually impossible to crack. Must be tricky for the lenders too, from the opposite perspective. Maybe boat finance is actually unsecured and the cars situation is a special case.

 

Cheers, Mike

Mike-I was told by a legal eagle some years ago that if one has the bill of sale include a statement that there is "no debt, lien or financial encumbrance" attached to the item , and the vendor signs to this effect, then you are covered. Maybe someone on here will dispute this?

Having said that, if a problem did occur, then I don't know what the situation would be if the vendor went bust, or declared themselves bankrupt.

[mayalld]

Mike-I was told by a legal eagle some years ago that if one has the bill of sale include a statement that there is "no debt, lien or financial encumbrance" attached to the item , and the vendor signs to this effect, then you are covered. Maybe someone on here will dispute this?

Having said that, if a problem did occur, then I don't know what the situation would be if the vendor went bust, or declared themselves bankrupt.

 

It protects you to the extent that when it turns sour, you will have a bit of paper that can be used as the basis of a prosecution.

 

The bit of paper doesn't mean that you own the boat.

 

The legal maxim of "Nemo dat quod non habet" (No-one can give what he does not have) applies here. If the vendor doesn't have good title to the boat, then he cannot transfer good title to the buyer.

[John Orentas]

In my case, as the vendor I gave the purchaser a declaration that the boat was solely my property and there were no financial leans on it, I also added the names of several people who had known me and the boat for several years, one of whom being the marina owner.. My buyer consulted his legal chap and found the document satisfactory..

 

As a DIY builder there was added difficulties as I was not in a position to supply any information about the boats origins and for reasons I won't go into here I could not even supply receipts of any kind for major components.

 

Handing over a 'Technical file' and a 'Users manual' helps too.

Edited November 10, 2008 by John Orentas

[Justme]

What about indmnity insurance?

 

We bought some land a while back & one plot did not have full possesory title absolute. So the sellor had to pay for insurance in case someone came along & claimed that the land belonged to them. Not expensive (I think about £200 or £300 to cover about £25k for the 12 years needed to gain full title).

 

Justme

[johnthebridge]

It protects you to the extent that when it turns sour, you will have a bit of paper that can be used as the basis of a prosecution.

 

The bit of paper doesn't mean that you own the boat.

 

The legal maxim of "Nemo dat quod non habet" (No-one can give what he does not have) applies here. If the vendor doesn't have good title to the boat, then he cannot transfer good title to the buyer.

Absolutely right, and I should have added that it was also recommended a sentence should be included in the contract along the lines, "I am the sole owner of this vessel, and I certify that it is my property to dispose of as I choose". This of course has greater relevance to the original question.

Edited November 10, 2008 by johnthebridge