Aire and Calder - Fish v Barges

[fanshaft]

On 12/10/2022 at 21:23, Waterway2go said:

Is there any news of the sand traffic to Leeds restarting?   Fusedale and Farndale both appeared briefly on AIS a week or so ago.

Dredging is progressing well, with the team either on Castleford Cut or expected there shortly after finishing Knottingley/

Ferrybridge.  Shan House bridge to Lemonroyd has been ploughed.  The draft restriction through Knottingley has been lifted so Farndale did a trial run loaded to 7ft 6 in (450 tonnes) plus water ballast to 8ft and this provided useful information for the dredging team.  Fusedale also loaded and came up to Leeds.  It's hoped to run regularly once dredging is completed although there may be some passages before then.

[Waterway2go]

Did the sand barges ever get started again?  I saw publicity about a new vessel MMS Offroader, but nothing seems to have moved since.

 

[fanshaft]

16 hours ago, Waterway2go said:

Did the sand barges ever get started again?  I saw publicity about a new vessel MMS Offroader, but nothing seems to have moved since.

 

Branfords, Humber Barges and MMS Workboats did around 52 loaded trips Hull to Knostrop, Leeds.  This has proved the concept but Knostrop depot is not suitable for various reasons. The next stage is for the customer and partner companies to develop Port Leeds at Stourton for aggregates, recycling, readymix, and general cargoes.  It's hoped that they will be on site this year, but additional planning permission will be needed, design work etc.  The Trust has spent around £1 million dredging for 2.5 metres draft Goole to Leeds in readiness.

[Orwellian]

Given the uncertainty over future Government funding £1 million seems an awful lot of money for CRT to spend on what is still a very speculative venture. By the time the site of Stourton is ready - if it ever is- the canal will probably need dredging again. Who's going to pay for the creation of 'Port Leeds'?

[Waterway2go]

I wish you the best of luck with Stourton.   But mention of design work and planning permission suggests a long wait until traffic starts moving again with all the risks involved - not least the canal silting up again.    Can you not carry on using the old wharf even with reduced visits  to keep the channel clear?

[fanshaft]

1 hour ago, Orwellian said:

Given the uncertainty over future Government funding £1 million seems an awful lot of money for CRT to spend on what is still a very speculative venture. By the time the site of Stourton is ready - if it ever is- the canal will probably need dredging again. Who's going to pay for the creation of 'Port Leeds'?

Well about 40% of the cost was dredging through Knottingley which needed doing anyway.  Port Leeds is to be part funded by WYCA an the balance from the investors. Dredging needed doing to enable the trials to proceed. 

 

28 minutes ago, Waterway2go said:

I wish you the best of luck with Stourton.   But mention of design work and planning permission suggests a long wait until traffic starts moving again with all the risks involved - not least the canal silting up again.    Can you not carry on using the old wharf even with reduced visits  to keep the channel clear?

Much of the design work is already done.  Planning permission for part of the site has been obtained.  It isn't practical to continue using Knostrop wharf owing to the constraints of a very busy site and restricted road access with housing nearby - it can't handle the tonnages envisaged.   In terms of silting probably the only area where this is likely to be a problem is below Lemonroyd where regular dredging/ploughing is programed anyway.

[Orwellian]

I've worked for decades to try and maintain and improve our waterways but I think it is wishful thinking to believe that freight will ever return to our waterways, even the Aire & Calder so, while I admire the optimism of fanshaft, I do not believe his vision of ' Port Leeds' will ever happen. I'm sure there are many who will disagree but let's come back to this in a year and see how much progress has been made.

On 08/06/2023 at 22:06, fanshaft said:

 

 

[fanshaft]

On 10/06/2023 at 18:10, Orwellian said:

I've worked for decades to try and maintain and improve our waterways but I think it is wishful thinking to believe that freight will ever return to our waterways, even the Aire & Calder so, while I admire the optimism of fanshaft, I do not believe his vision of ' Port Leeds' will ever happen. I'm sure there are many who will disagree but let's come back to this in a year and see how much progress has been made.

 

I understand your point of view.  Barges stopped running regularly to Leeds in 2013 (oil and aggregate).  In both cases there was nothing wrong with the waterway, the service or the cost - the oil depot was to close (it did), and the aggregate company merged, created new regions, and the material for Whitwood was then sourced from a North Yorkshire quarry, owned by the same company, which had spare capacity,  in the same region but with no water access. 

In terms of Port Leeds the grounds for optimism are as follows:  Planners are very supportive as is the West Yorkshire Combined Authority;  there is a huge demand for aggregate, especially in Leeds, with declining resources.  Planners are not keen to grant permission for further extraction from conventional quarries - although an exception has been made for Birkwood quarry from deliveries can be made by barge.  The obvious solution is marine aggregate of which there is an abundance but it has to be transported quite a distance - in this case from Hull.  Movement by road of the tonnages envisaged would require huge numbers of trucks and drivers and be expensive.  Movement by rail is not possible as there are no paths available and neither end of the journey has a rail siding.   Movement by water from waterside to waterside is significantly cheaper than by road (hence the on-site readymix plant at Stourton) and this helps to cover fixed costs allowing other tonnages to go out of the gate relatively short distances to customers in the surrounding areas (that's how Whitwood worked). Barge transport is also demonstrably greener than any other mode other than pipeline (obviously not an option here!). Return loads from Leeds to Hull are being offered which will make the operation more efficient in terms of use of resources (barges and equipment) and will provide additional income for the Trust as will additional movements of non-aggregate cargoes. The companies involved in this project are long established and very experienced in transport, shipping, logistics and aggregates  and over £1 million has been been expended thus far - hardly likely if the project was not deemed have a very good chance of succeeding.  As you say let's see where we are in a year's time!

[Orwellian]

Thanks for that comprehensive reply. I hope you are proven right.

[Ronaldo47]

Water transport can certainly be economic where suitable facilities exist. My late brother-in-law had a house half-way up a hillside in the port of Fécamp in Normandy,  offering an unobstructed view of the port from his balcony. The port used to  receive  regular cross-channel deliveries of sand from the UK. The ship making the deliveries had a conveyor that could be swung over the side to deposit sand onto the wharf. It was moored fore and aft using long ropes, and during unloading (sometimes at night, depending on the times of high tides), the ship was moved along the quay by tightening and slackening the mooring ropes to produce a long thin mound of sand. This would be removed (in daylight)  by a succession of dumper trucks that were loaded using diggers, leaving the quay clear for the next cargo (often more sand, sometimes consignments of sawn timber, from Russia judging by the Cryllic lettering on the vessels). 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Ronaldo47
Typos

[fanshaft]

Interestingly the dredger doesn't go into Albert Dock but berths alongside Riverside Quay using its spud legs.  It discharges using a long conveyor into the sand storage area next to Albert Dock. Most of the sand is taken out currently by road for local delivery  

Edited June 12, 2023 by fanshaft
Minor errors