system 4-50

Ahem! Health & Safety here, sorry, opened padlocks left on the outside are an emergency exit risk - you may find yourself locked in!

Be aware that there appears to be an upper limit on the number of new objects (eg cupboard) created on a plan. After many months of developing my plan I can no longer drag a new object onto the boat. There does not seem to be any way of deleting unwanted objects. You can hide them but they still seem to be there. WW have told me they have a new improved version coming out in the new year.

Oh for the good old days! Walking into town (15 minutes), into Sainsbury's - oops, can't, its shut, silly me, half closing day. Next day, repeat journey, open this time. Join the first queue (counter service and separate queue for every product type) - 20 minutes, ah the delights of personal service. He's having a bad day and off-loads some of it on me. Never mind, we're all human. On to the next counter, only 10 minute wait here but the queue builds up behind me so the assistant is only prepared to serve me what I specifically ask for. This limits me to what I can see (half of the selection is in the back and not visible) and what I already know about. I make my choice. The assistant measures it off and asks for my bag. Bag? I've brought no bag. This was an impulse buy. Some delay while he finds something that will do provided it doesn't rain. And off I go. And so it goes on. It must be understood that the people who work in supermarkets are not normal people, they are fiends in human disguise. They are pirates who are just waiting for the moment when they achieve true monopoly and then they are going to pillage the entire country for what its worth (about minus £175,000,000,000) and hold us to ransom. (When they die they are reincarnated as investment bankers.) PS I worked for a supermarket group for 30 years and was amazed at the number of people in it who worked harder than they needed to earn their pay solely because they enjoyed the feeling of providing the best possible service to their customers. The service you get from supermarkets today is just staggeringly good. If you want the personal service from so-called traditional shops then you must be prepared to pay for the operational inefficiencies of this type of business - and mostly you just aren't!

Thank you. I hadn't grasped the distinction between the foams. I still don't understand what is meant by " due to the migration properties plasticisers in PVC". It is not English as she is normally spuck.

http://www.screwfix.com/talk/thread.jspa?t...15&tstart=0 [bunker door firmly closed.]

I'd like to be able to plan trips with possible intermediate stopping points. In particular the location of 14 day mooring places would be useful, even though I expect they are probably permanently full. Is there a map anywhere that would help me do this? I have a copy of Nicholson's Inland Waterways map which I find to be exceedingly irritating in the sparcity of information provided. I also have some old Nicholson's Guides which though generally useful are also irritating. Is there anything better? This forum is amazingly good. If the useful information I have obtained from trawling through it had to be supplied by consultants it would have cost me thousands. Even the occasional descent into interpersonal disharmony (I just invented that term) is trivial by comparison with other fora - and occasionally amusing. The provider of this service deserves a medal and a seat in the House of Lords. I just hope that heshe has some succession planning in place so that it does not just one day disappear. Whilst I am wittering on, is there any chance that the afore-mentioned worthies might provide a wiki for narrowboating? My apologies if as is likely my main question has been asked before, I don't know how to construct a suitable search question. It would be good if the search engine could accept words of less than three characters provided they were all numeric?

I want doubleglazing in my sailaway, so I've looked at some of the window suppliers. I then went to Gordon and asked him if I could have a spare billion to do my windows. He said "Are you a *anker?" and I said "No", so he said "Sod off, then". The prices are just beyond belief. So, can nb window frames be made of wood instead of aluminium? Ignoring complications like hoppers for a minute. If so, what wood? And would it be cheaper? I can handle a router with no problems, but I'm ignorant about the properties of different woods. I'm not worried about looking traditional. All I want is something that is tidy and practical that works ie is efficient at keeping heat in. I have a large window acreage. Or is that hectareage? I can't believe its not been asked before but I've done a search without success.

What is the difference between a single coil calorifier as used on a nb and a domestic hot tank used in a conventional static hovel? Could you use a domestic on a nb? And a related question, are all BW water points 1/2 inch supply? They appeared to be many years ago when I took some hire boats out. Am I too much of an optimist in thinking they must have been upgraded to something bigger by now?

I have a strong desire to keep the engine system simple and risk-free, so running through a heat exchanger, Cal 1, seemed to be the simplest arrangement. To avoid having to drain it in frosty weather I thought I could fill it with gycol. Are you tellling me that it i possible to get true heat exchangers? No, a gas instant water heater, which rather overlaps the Alde. I hope to spend most of the time cruising not marinaring. I'm assuming that the Alde is not up to driving a decent shower, am I wrong? I'll change it to include the IWH instead. No. Apparently it is possible for the UFH to be "uncomfortable" if it gets too hot, and that is a much lower temperature than radiators get to, obviously. The UFH manufacturers supply a special recycling system that only admits new hot as necessary. So I've read, I've not tried it yet. So that the engine can drive some rads without complicating the thermosyphon bit too much. Thats the theory anyway. You're right. I just have a sense of insecurity about leaving open ends. I must grow up some time.

This upholds one of the laws of computer programming, viz the biggest screw-up will be in the bit you fiddled with last, in this case the IWH and the Alde. I originally had both driving the shower as well but tried to simplify it to reduce the valves. I'm confused by the Alde. I have in my hand the brochure for the Alde 3010. It says "The built in stored water heater has a volume of more than 8 litres of fresh water providing up to 16 litres of hot water." Is that per min or per hour? Does it create water from fresh air? Can you get a shower from 16 litres of hot water? Or just a large coffee? Maybe I'll take the Alde hot water out of the scheme and connect the IWH to the shower as well. (I am thinking of the IWH as gas driven.) Oops. Good point. I'll address that too.

Could this work? The Ultimate Heating System Objective 1.To be able to use either the engine, a multi-fuel stove, or an Alde, to heat the boat living space and/or hot water, via radiators, UFH, and calorifier. General 1. There are 6 appliances attached to the Manifold: Puffin, Cal 1, Rads(3&4), UFH, Cal 2, Alde. 2. Every appliance must be valved so that the flow goes either through the manifold directly or through the appliance. There must be no block. There is always flow possible around the ring represented by the manifold. [The Alde & UFH need further consideration in this respect.] 3. Three of these are heat generators and only one of these may be switched in to the manifold at any time: Puffin, Cal 1, Alde. 4. The remaining heat sinks may be switched in or out at any time but there must always be at least one of Rads ¾, Cal 2 switched in. Note that the UFH is not one this group because its thermostat can block the manifold circulation. 5. No fresh water is present in the engine compartment so that there is no freezing risk in that area. Cal 1 is solely used as a heat exchanger and therefore contains glycol (antifreeze) not water. Problem Areas 1. No room for people as boat is full to capacity with piping and valves. 2. Large quantity of antifreeze. 3. No backup if the linkage itself fails. 4. Opportunity for damage due to inexpert human intervention (wrong valves closed). 5. So many valves – will some leak? 6. Alde & UFH have particular characteristics that need further research. 7. Header tank(s) & pressures. 8. Expansion considerations 9. Air locks? retires to bomb shelter....

A distinct posssibility. My apologies. I didn't realise the company didn't have its own site and was being hosted by BT and therefore appears to need the following. https://www.btowstore.com/epages/15094.sf/e...5094/Categories The company name appears to be Restormate. The 10+ tons is steel and can look after itself. The one ton of water is only restrained by 9 or 12mm of plastic, and if inadequately supported, will rupture the tank seams. Yes, well, the post is specifically about plastic as per the sub-title. Perhaps I could have made this clearer. No, but thanks for the link, I'll look at that as well. I looked at their website and assumed from it that they only worked in 6 or 9 mm. Thinking that 12mm was necessary, I took them off my list. Given your comments I will reconsider them. And thanks for the full description of your setup. It makes one realise that more varied solutions are possible. Thanks also for the reminder that its got to be able to fit in the door!

I have come across a website www.btowstore.com that offers 1000L polyethylene water tanks for sale at £245 + vat, with dimensions of 590H x 1240 x 1590 mm. This is huge. Ignoring for a moment where you could fit such a monster in a narrowboat, do the gurus on the forum believe that such a tank could survive the mishaps that can occur on a narrowboat? The prospect of a about a ton (?) of water suddenly being stopped from 3mph is disturbing. I note that the standard sizes in some of the well-known manufacturers eg Vetus do not seem to go up to these sort of sizes.

What do you mean by "is not likely"? Is it physically impossible? Is it too much hard work? Is it specifically prohibited? Is it that you disapprove? Don't be coy - tell us what is on your mind!

I take it that the "pivot point" (forgotten the correct technical term) of the boat is usually well back from the mid-point of the length then? Thanks for the comprehensive reasoning. I think I understand whats going on a little better now. Thats not a water tank, thats a swimming pool!

I'm in that fantasy world that exists between when you order your sailaway and when you are confronted by the hard realities of fitting out which force you to do it the same way as everybody else does. So I can fantasize: Is it possible to have your fresh water in two tanks, one in the bow and one near the stern, and pump water between the two on a daily basis so that there is no net change in the fore-aft pitch of the boat? Would there be any significant benefit? How much water would you need to be carrying to make this worth while? Has anyone tried it? And anyway, how much fresh water do you need, per person per day, liveaboard? Take me to periscope depth!

I am considering having sprayfoam insulation put on my bare (but battened) hull but have received wildly different opinions on what it should cost. Is there anyone on the forum who has had this done recently, separately from battening out? Or is there a guru or two that could venture an estimate?

No I hadn't, so thank you for that. My direct experience with multi-bottled gas has been in a cottage. It doesn't seem to identify any show-stoppers for the four bottle scheme and does give more precision about what has to be done. When I get my hands on the boat I'll construct some cardboard mockups and test the practicability of the setup and the degree to which it satisfies those nicely detailed regulations.

OK, it is time to come clean. What I am after is a bank of 4 x 13Kg propane bottles across the stern of my (ordered) square cruiser stern-ed boat, with an automatic change-over valve, in a locker that I can sit on. Two tanks to be on stream at any time and will automatically switch to the other two as necessary. I was hoping to find out as much as possible about the issues involved without revealing this, in case it is a really daft idea. So now the experienced boaters can maybe have a good laugh. (I can't find a suitable smiley. Banging hand against head might be right) The issues as I see them: 1. Access to the engine well. Would it be significantly obstructed? 2. Interference to the tiller movement (hence the original post). 3. Corners possibly outside the boat profile. I don't have enough measurement to check this yet. 4. Impeding the driver (what do you call these?) 5. Preventing the locker drain(s) from leaking gas into the engine well. 2 x 3" pipes to the stern perhaps? 6. Routing the gas supply back to the cabin 7. Positioning the ACO valve high enough (does it have to be higher than the bottles?) 8. Security. The bottles need to be not too obvious, and locked in. 9. Ease of access for changing the bottles. 10. Uselessness ? of seating in such a position. I have a (recent) picture of a boat on the Regent's canal that has two tanks right at the back which I could upload, but I don't know the etiquette of displaying pictures of boats without their owners explicit permission. This picture appears to show one possible use of the bottom knee of the Z tiller - to limit the maximum deflection to either side by means of two pegs in the deck that obstruct it. Right. Hard hat and safety gear donned in readiness for the response.

I've seen it said that the standard Z shape makes it easier to steer in some way. Looking at it, I can't see how it is any better than the inverted L of a conventional boat tiller. Is there some physics that shows there is a benefit to this shape? I ask because I begrudge the few inboard inches the bottom knee of the Z takes up. I'd like to use it for another purpose. I've looked at many pictures and they're all Zs. I can't look at the gallery because I get a message "you have used up your bandwidth". What is that all about? I agree in advance that the Zs are sexier, - but I need the space...

Does anybody supply a simple hoist arrangement for getting gas bottles out of a forward gas locker, and for getting much heavier ones back in? Does everybody rely on brute strength? How is it done? I've no idea as I've not been launched yet... (Keywords: heavy, gas, propane, lift, lifting, hoist, crane, locker)