nicknorman

I think it depends on the flight. The bit of the Rochdale we have done did seem quite difficult. But when we did the Wigan flight, it was all quite straighforward. We were paired with another boat which definitely helps, and I think this is far more likely to happen on Wigan than on the Rochdale, simply due to the traffic numbers.

Unfortunately we were going down at the time... (and back via the Trent)

Yes I think he was OK, but it was much more fun to arrive at the fairly impressive structure with nobody there and have to work out how to get through it in one piece ourselves. And boating is supposed to be about fun, not about following ze orders.

In the late 70s me and my mates did the Bingley 5 rise. OMG, there were no volockies (or lockies) and yet we managed it without drowning ourselves or the boat. We must have nearly died, although I didn't notice it at the time. But we did have an SR3 which probably helped! Yes this is the thing. If only volockies would help those wanting help and not interfere with those wanting to operate the locks themselves, all would be sweetness and light. But they (some) really struggle to not take ownership of a flight and assume that all boaters are stupid and should be grateful for their help. I would be quite happy if they ceased to exist but I am not so selfish as to want that to actually happen, as I know some people want and need them.

This is the kind of thing I dislike. Micro analysis of every minutia of what is actually a fairly ordinary lock flight. When we went up the flight we just operated the locks, nothing out of the ordinary and no issues. The only drama was on the one lock where we met WFC coming the other way and they started ordering us around. Making a huge meal of the flight is, either intentionally or unintentionally, a means to demonstrate how important the WFC is. But it is just a lock flight, albeit not the easiest to operate with limited crew. And as I keep saying, they were official volockies. Could we try to get that one in our heads?

They are (or were) official CRT volunteers. However their “Wigan Flight Crew” Facebook group was their own thing, not under the control of CRT.

Apparently CRT have “sacked” a couple of long standing volockies on the Wigan flight - aka “Wigan Flight Crew” for reasons unknown to me, and the rest of them have gone off in a sulk walked out in sympathy. Regular viewers will remember that I had a major falling out with WFC and personally am happy not to have volockies interfering helping , but still I know a lot people find them helpful on that flight. Does anyone know what the story is?

Looks like yet another one that thinks this discussion forum is some sort of free professional advice service. Where do they come from!?

Must have been stolen guv!

How terrible! I was too busy replying to you on the internet to actually interact with you in person! ‘Tis a 21st century thing. Anyway, how do you know it was me driving?

Yes agree about Rothens but again, being contractors to CRT and us being CRT’s customers, part of the “job description” is to be polite to us noddyboaters! In contrast to someone using the canals for the transportation of goods for profit.

Ribble link - still standing around scratching their heads wondering what to do, repair not yet started. The latest Stoppage notice said “We have identified a hole in the gate seal and we are looking into it”. (OK I made that last bit up!) We are booked on 22nd which I though would surely be oodles of time, but now I’m not so sure.

But surely the fundamental difference here is between a professional working boatman, and somebody enjoying leisure activity on a historic boat? The former are entitled to be grumpy and aloof because they are just doing their job, day after day, and the job description doesn’t include being nice to gongoozlers, or leisure boaters who don’t really know what they are doing and just get in the way. Whereas someone “enjoying” leisure activity on a boat historic or not, could reasonably be expected to be cheerful and enjoying themselves - otherwise, why are they doing it?! And with that goes the common courtesy of being pleasant and polite to those engaging in the same activity. Obviously the number of people in the former category is virtually zero as I don’t include fuel boats - part of their job description IS to be nice to other boaters! So that leaves virtually no-one who is entitled to be grumpy and aloof. And yet…

In any case, there would be a stoppage notice about it if CRT had agreed to the closure.

This seems highly unlikely. Any contract was between the seller and the buyer, nothing to do with HMRC. HMRC have to apply the law, which in this case means the seller is liable to settle the VAT bill. Anything that happens after that such as seller trying to get the money back from the buyer, is nothing to do with HMRC. I would need hard proof of this, not just an internet rumour.

Heretic!

No boat steers in neutral if it is not moving through the water. All boats steer to some extent if they are moving, depending on the design of the boat and how fast it is moving. But many modern boats have rather small rudders that are barely effective in neutral and certainly can’t create a significant change in direction. So yes boats do steer in neutral to some extent if they are moving forwards. But all narrowboats steer much more responsively if they are in fwd gear and preferable with a bit of revs on. Surely everyone (who knows how to steer a boat) knows this? So I’m not sure what point you are trying to make apart from stating the obvious.

True but being cautious in a glider doesn’t mean you can make a safe landing. Being “cautious” (aka nervous) can cause high workload and overload. An overloaded human is extremely dysfunctional. And there is a direct corollary with narrowboating. The old cautious incompetent boater will keep going into neutral or even reverse and be quite unable to steer the thing as a consequence, bouncing off the lock entry walls etc, albeit relatively slowly. Being old, they don’t analyse the cause and effect, don’t learn from the consequences of their actions and continue to repeat the behaviour wondering why they get the same outcome. Whereas the youngster will quickly realise that faster is better because although you are going faster, you don’t hit anything because you can actually steer the thing. Yes, however bearing in mind the number of modern boats vs historic boats there do seem to be a disproportionate number of a***holes on the latter. But I will say it again, by no means all historic boat operators.

Maybe no harder to steer, but as you say harder to stop in a hurry and more ability to cause damage due to the extra weight. And perhaps a converted camping boat is not quite the same a large woolwich - I don't know, never steered one. One of the arguments used by some historic boat owners to justify their actions is "Oh well you try steering a 70' deep drafted boat and see how you get on", so one can't have the argument both ways! Plus I would assume that you were quite young when you did this - young people learn 20 times faster than grey beardy types who have spent a lifetime doing something else not involving co-ordination and prediction of trajectories, and then decide they might like to try steering a monster boat. We get this in gliding - if a 15 year old joins the club, he will learn to fly in a few months. If a 65 year old joins, it's quite likely they will never go solo.

This surely is the key point. It is accepted that some steerers of historic boats (this is the correct term IMO, not working, work or ex working boats) may be novices and consequently incompetent. As said, we all have to learn! Although it also has to be said that putting an incompetent steerer in charge of a very large and heavy boat if they have never steered a boat before, might not be the best idea. One generally doesn’t learn to drive an articulated lorry before learning to drive a car. But back to the key point which is that it is less the competence of the steerer that offends, more the entitled attitude displayed by some. But not all, of course. It is thus demonstrably not necessary to be an a***hole in order to own or steer a historic boat, so those that are do so out of their own choice. And probably it is the other way round, an a***hole is attracted to a great big monster-bowed f-off boat so they can shove it in the face of the plebs and make everyone get out of the way, in order to make themselves feel better.

Jolly good, we never had a problem on the Curly (including Rushall & Daw End). I rather like the Rushall flight. We did have some bad weed on the Tame Valley near Perry Barr top, but it was tolerable. This was a few years ago though! Edit: No, not THAT sort of weed!

Perhaps if you told us what was on the list we could advise? This is the problem with gas, as MtB is often heard to say, is "which regulations do you want to comply with?" THe RCD / ISOs, the PD, the GSIUR, the BSS? I would have thought that if the boat complies with the BSS requirements then it can be deemed to be "safe" for the purposes of CRT and an insurance company. Perhaps the GS chap is looking for work? Does he have the specific ticket for LPG on boats? Rules and common practices for houses are quite different in some areas.

Im not quite sure what the question is but certainly BSS can have more stringent rules than GSIUR - which doesn’t go into great specifics- but of course BSS can’t over-rule some restriction imposed by GSIUR. There is also the ISO specifically about LPG on boats, and the BSS adds more restrictions to that eg the ISO allows soldered joints whereas BSS doesn’t.

Yes but in 1968, people actually knew how to steer boats!

Lady M is correct. The GSIUR specifically exempts leisure (non-residential) boats from itself.