Rob@BSSOffice

Quite so and I believe we are guilty of some degree of confusion in the first edition of the BSS Guide. The next edition has gone back to basics and follows the formula of the ISO quoted by David previously up the thread ie readily accessible or labelled and readily accessible. Builders do delcare to this ISO and we do not wish exceed what the RCD requires. However, and sorry if I unnerve you a little Maffi, but we agree, your underlying point is crucial. The need for isolators to be accessible is that they are quick and easy to reach in a crisis (or to prevent one from developing rapidly). So prompted by the discussion on this thread and by other submissions to the office, the manager has suggested that we introduce a piece of advice (ie not mandatory, but safer than the minimum basic requirements) such that... "...highly recommended that isolators (and LPG main shut offs and fuel cocks/valves) or their means of operation, be located in an easy to reach location where they can be operated quickly in an emergency." All matters must be in balance and the Scheme is against retrospection, so isolators in engine 'oles will continue to pass (where readily accessible ... tools-to-remove, impedimenta, obstructions, clutter etc etc). But if you have have them fitted where they are to hand (wired without introducing new risks) then that should be even safer. I predict that there will be no examiners misinterpreting this requirement in an over-strict way. However, if you think that such a thing has happened on your boat, get in touch with Dave or Phil at the BSS Office with a clear account and the matter will be resolved straightaway. Regards and thanks to all for highlighting this matter. Rob@BSS Office Go boating - Stay safe

Thanks, as you'll see, that document has these two links: the British Marine Federation (BMF) (www.britishmarine.co.uk - click on ‘publications’ then ‘technical’) and the Royal Yachting Association (www.rya.org.uk - search on ‘Technical’). A link new to us has just been brought to our attention. We thought it looked fairly comprehensive The link below leads to Hampshire TSS advice on boats :- http://www.hants.gov.uk/regulatory/advice.html#boats Rob@BSS Office Go boating - Stay safe

...did you say wrapped six or was it seven times round that radiator. What's more does the radiator leak??? We also make a recomendation about keeping the pipework in the dry . Whilst I'm here I can also point to that other best practice comment earlier in this thread about keeping the pipework as high as possible to avoid damage and may help the crew smell a leak before any harm occurs. The key point is that the compliance check is based on reasonable assumption. The known risk points are the very high temperature installations. It is also highly unlikely that with a competently installed system you will see the sort of situation you describe. Now I must put on my hat and coat and get on with copy-checking the new chapter Seven (LPG Installations) - what a wonderful coincidence. regards Rob@BSS Office

Your hope is not in vain. At BSS examination time (or any other time on the waterway for that matter) the check in regard to pipework will be solely concerned with exhausts and flues. However, for good (and competent) practice see what BS 5482-3 has to offer on the subject. This is the general point; BSS Requirements represent minimum standards accepted by the navigation authorities. However, better practice may be described eleswhere or even in the Guide ( eg the advice about 100mm gap) Regards Rob@BSS Office

I'm more than happy to offer the interpretation. For pipe it is unlikely to be 'a source of heat'. I have here the new description of the proposed way of meeting the requirement The effect of heat on pipework can cause it to expand and contract, which can lead to a hardening of the pipework or loose joints, which in turn could allow gas to escape. 7.8.7/R - Is the LPG pipe at least 75mm (3in) from exhaust system and flue components? Measure the distance that any LPG pipes are from exhaust system and flue components. LPG pipes must be at least 75mm (3in) from exhaust system and flue components. Note - Best practice We recommend that there is a gap of at least 100mm (4in) between LPG pipe and exhaust system or flue components. Glenn et al, you'll have noted on another thread here about the need to do a competent job and also noted that a key means to demonstrate that (not including workmanship which you will also have to do comptently) is to follow the guidance in BS 5482-3:1999 Code of Practice for domestic butane and propane gas-burning installations - Installations in boats, yachts and other vessels. This document will be be much more comprehensive and cover more aspects than the BSS Essential Guide (red book) - see http://www.bsonline.bsi-global.com/server/index.jsp entering the code number in the search box should do the trick. You can email either Dave or Phil, who work on the technical support side in our team for any further advice (bss.enquiries@boatsafetyscheme.com). I just do the talking and stamp-sticking bits; as also previously noted on this forum. Regards Rob@BSS Office Go boating - Stay safe

Not all private vessels - just for completeness and as a useful reference the whole Stautory Instument 1998:2451 can be viewed here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/end On reading you may see that it also covers other categories of boats "...a vessel not requiring a national or international load line certificate except when such vessel is - (i) hired out in the course of a business; (ii) made available to members of the public in the course of a business carried out from that vessel; or (iii) used primarily for domestic or residential purposes" No specific mention is made of Corgi, but the key reference is to " ...a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive ". As you say there is much more reference to 'a job competently done' and proved to be so should any unfortunate incident take place such as http://tinyurl.com/8ar3z Split-second escape from boat explosion Apr 20 2004 By Jon Ryder, South London Press A YOUNG woman leapt from a burning houseboat just moments before it exploded... (The man died six weeks later and the woman was in hospital for several months. The gas leak was traced back to an incompetent lpg installation.) Hope the above SI reference helps Kind regards Rob@BSS Office Go boating - Stay safe

No need to presume, I reconfirm I am an employee of the Scheme. The quote is taken from the latest information, as published last January, which sets out the requirement of the navigation authorities. It is in the Summary of Key Changes distributed by BW, EA the BA and posted on our website in the downloads section. As DOR has correctly pointed out, it the attended/unattended nature of the appliance that makes the difference. NB The 'kettle' effect has been recorded once or twice as a cause of problems, vigilance has to be the watchword particulary if you have an older cooker without FFD/FSDs fitted. Cheers Rob@BSS Office Go boating -Stay safe

Hope this helps, for the record: BSS general requirement 27 a) LPG and liquid fuel burning appliances installed from 3 January 2000. All burners and pilot lights shall be fitted with a device that automatically shuts off the fuel supply if the burner flame fails. LPG and liquid fuel burning appliances installed before 3 January 2000 Burners on catalytic appliances, appliances with continuously-burning flames and pilot light burners shall be fitted with a device that automatically shuts off the fuel supply if the burner flame fails. Rob @ BBS Office Go boating - Stay safe

Mike, I am more than a little surprised at this part of your account and would welcome private correspondence/phone call on this matter. However to set the record straight: Issues that affect the safety of the first party only ie carbon monoxide poisoning are ones where the BSS issues advice only. There is good reason for the advice etc already discussed here on this thread, but a strong recommendation is its status. However, this is not the complete end of the story. it may go beyond BSS matters. In this case this fitter was not doing work in the name of the Scheme. In generalterms therefore, a competent fitter may make the choice not to carry out works where someone could be at risk from CO poisoning (especially if they are CORGI registered). Any fitter carrying out works that could harm people may be risking a legal admonishment and/or investigation by CORGI, if registered. Indeed competent fitters would probably be expected to keep with the letter of BS 5482-3 or ISO 10239. That may be the real reason - although communicated in way that left you thinking it was a BSS requirement. NB - Any technical questions as to the requirements of the Scheme are more than welcome at BSS Office. We will glady help iron out any such queries like the original one at the top of the topic. Direct to bss.enquiries@boatsafetyscheme.com or phone 01923 201278. PS I am also happy to send by post or email a copy of our Avoiding the silent threat- Carbon Monoxide leaflet. Regards Rob @ BSSOffice Go boating - Stay safe

Alan, from the Official BSS examiner's checking procedures, a definition of 'readily accessible' 'Capable of being reached for operation, inspection or maintenance without removal of any craft structure or use of any tools or removal of any item of portable equipment stowed in places intended for storage of portable equipment such as lockers, drawers or shelves.' I hope it answers your query. My hat and coat are on, regards. Rob @ BSS Office Go boating - Stay safe

Fuzzyduck enquired: Can anyone tell me (because my manual's on the boat) if rigid gas pipes are mandatory for a BSS cert? And if so what seagoing boat owners do when they have to go through a BSS inspection? 24000[/snapback] Hi Fuzzyduck, - an official BSS Office response Just a quick dip in with an answer, so if you need more info, please contact the Office. This is complex, but you knew that when you asked it didn't you In a nutshell, all-hose systems are recognised as long as the system fully complies with ISO 10239. The technical guys in the office, Dave or Phil, can give you more detail if you need it 01923 201278 (I'm just the wordsmith). However the new Guide text will carry a caveat fairly similar to what follows: All-hose supply system 'We cannot recommend using all-hose systems since hose is known to permeate gas through its walls and it is not highly resistant to mechanical damage. LPG hose has minimal fire resistance. It deteriorates with age, with exposure to sunlight and exposure to the elements. If you are considering an all-hose system for new purchase or replacement, owners are cautioned to consider these issues very carefully. 'BS EN ISO 10239:2000 does recognise continuous hose LPG supply-lines, however the UK National Annex also makes the following points: “In line with the previous requirements in BS5482 Pt3, it is recommended that any application of LPG hose should be of minimum practical length. The installation should allow for regular inspection, at least annually, and for replacement if any deterioration is found.” You can read into the above that we prefer pipes to hoses on a risk basis. I'm sorry there's not much detail here, but we can send you chapter and verse. PS I'm happy to help with your own forum. I'll try not use 'stropograms' (but I can vouch for Phil's good nature, honest). Please email me or call via 01923 201278 to discuss detail. Regards Rob@BSS Office Go boating - Stay safe

Yes, yes all of that and a bit more besides. I'm the communications manager for the BSS. For those people of a less nervous disposition, you can see my picture and an interview in the last edition of BW's Waterfront magazine. I can also be seen on occaision on the BSS stands at various boat shows and I'm very happy to have a chat with any folks from this forum who visit the stand. That is far too much about me. The offer is open to contact the Scheme office for technical support and advice. My hat and coat are on. Cheers and regards Rob@BSS Office Go boating - Stay safe

It is the BSS Office recommendation. Hence my signature. I hope it is polite (and friendly) enough for people to feel confident to approach the BSS Office with any queries in regard to BSS requirements, examinations and best practice advice. Kind regards Rob@BSS Office Go boating - Staysafe

We hope not - our aim is that examiners are consistent with no varience or interpretation. We do not support any 'pickyness' we do demand as Nigel will confirm, a tight appliance of the Examiner's Checking Procedures. These will be reflected in the second edition of the BSS Essential Guide available on the Web from August. Meanwhile please do follow the first edition which is on our website I would reccomend getting hold of a manometer and leak test your gas system in advance of his visit. 23921[/snapback] We cannot recommend that route to gas testing as it is easy to introduce gas-leaks if you are not competent in regard to LPG system testing, but we do very strongly recommend the installation and regular use of a bubble tester. This enables quick, easy, low-risk testing of your complete gas system Regards Rob@BSSOffice

Authorised BSS examiners set their own fee structure. usually based on the size and complexity of the boat, their travel costs and expenses, admin support and VAT where applicable. Some will put together a package that includes re-examinations if necessary, some discount re-examination, etc,etc. PS noting your signature ref: Otter. Some Sea Otters have their fire extinguishers mouinted in cupboards/lockers. It is worth noting the new option that where extinguishers are mounted out of sight, the location must be clerly labelled and the label must be in sight. The BSS office can email or post an explanatory information sheet on this if it affects your boat. The other advice is make sure your boat is well prepared for the examination. If there are any of the key items whose condition must be verified as compliant and the examiner cannot get access to them to carry out a check, the examiner cannot issue a certificate - until the condition can be verified as suitable. If you have questions about the BSS process or the Scheme's requirements, please do not hesitate to contact my technical support colleagues at the BSS Office on 01923 201278. Kind regards Rob@BSSOffice