Orakal

Im not sure thats the best angle, im goin again tomorrow so ill take some more detailed pics, whats the average clearance thats left between the 2?, as i can get some cut off when the welder comes.

The boat is a 1976 Harborough Marine with a grp top....Ive unbolted the 4 bolts around the bottom of the swan neck allowing me to lift the rudder out the cup but it wont drop any further than its sitting now. Relocating it will be easy as i can lift it without much effort so no matter what i use its not a problem. I have never took any photos detailing the arrangement but the ones i have might help i dont know. I was under the illusion if i had a brass sleeve it wouldnt stay the course given the thin sleeve needed if i need a diametral clearance of 2mm.... If i used either brass or a hard plastic could it not be tighter and allowed to find its own seating or is this not a viable option? This boat has had this bad steering vibration since we had it so im wondering if a bush had been fitted prior and wore away and just never tended too. Im either going to have to go with a slip or a new cup, neither is an issue as the welder still has to return. Im looking to buy either piece from someone who can manufacture it for me obviously after i have taken more comprehensive measurements to ensure the bottom of the rudder isnt oval. So lets say i want a new rudder cup save worrying about the bushes wearing/fitting which i think is the proper way to go who can make and ship one to me in Wolverhampton. Can you provide me with a rough cost only please as well as everything has to be finalised. The skeg isnt bent and everything is straight and true

The vibration when cruising is coming from the stated problem. There is so much play the rudder is actually banging in the cup and the swan neck visibly vibrates with a huge movement and as more water is pushed over rudder it becomes unpleasent at more than 50% power and with a lister sr3 thats not alot of power. I think a new cup is the way to go, just need someone to make it. Thats an idea i have toyed with myself as it will make a tightish self fitting bearing as such, im trying to get a long term solution though but if all else fails this seems viable.

It all looks round to be honest, theres no visual signs of oval wear and with how long its had that much play it may well have worn round itself...might have been on for 38 years for all i know.Ill take more measurements to make sure.

Thanks ill certainly keep them in mind, kinda thing im looking for and my welder can put it on no prob after i take the other off. I do concede that i will have to take more measurements after cleaning it all up more so i can see the true wear to see if as you all suggest its oval and if so replace the cup completely but can anyone tell me what an acceptable tolerance is around the rudder to the cup?, as i know 5mm is huge and very poor so what gap do i leave? If the diameter of the base of the rudder is 33.2mm for example, what size bore do i fit it into, 35mm...is that to small and abrasive?

Hi, im in the middle of having the boat welded watertight and, since we have had the boat the steering has had alot of play leading to abnormal amounts of vibration so while shes out ive looked into it. There is a fair amount of play caused by the 5mm gap between cup and rudder as shown in the pics. So my question is what would you do. I need to know what tolerance is usually given to this arrangement before i go further as i dont want it too tight. Then im thinking i have 3 reasonable options, 1,Replace the cup completely with a more suitable one. 2,Try to get a sleeve made to reduce the play. 3,Try and get a bearing fitted to make a nice smooth motion. I can see the bearing being an issue down to corrosion and i know of another who did it and ruined the bearing when hitting something with their rudder. My other problem lies in the fact these are not off the shelf pieces so im trying to find somewhere that can turn me either piece i decide to use. So if you have a workshop and can make me the piece and ship it im happy to pay or if your local enough collect said item. Or if you can point me in the direction of a place that can make it me im happy to go along and sort it out, im in wolverhampton and the boats near penkridge stafford so anywhere within 10-20 miles of either is great. Thanks for your help.

Thanks, and yes they are as i have sheared the head off a dodgy bolt already with no damage.

Yeah im aware 6mm is metric hence saying "about". It must have been made from 1/4 inch which i think is 6.35mm but im not pedantic enough to put that so 6mm sufficed as conversions carry too many decimal places for general chat. Given the fact every original bolt and fitting ive come across is imperial im happy to believe the boat uses an imperial steel thickness, something the surveyor also mentioned to me friday, who knows....she floats ,just....it'll do me.

The reason its so strong might be because it was built in 1976 in the middle ages plus it was built in imperial so its about 6mm only. The other reason might be because its a through bilge something todays boats dont incorporate thank god as its a horrid idea. Added to this the length way strips support the ballast not the floor which i prefer personally, i wont even stand on our floor although it should be sound enough.

We have our boat out now on your marina just inside the gate, after rescuing her from sinking last saturday..It was surveyed yesterday and only fails on the swim and the plate above after spending many years with a wet through bilge and alot of rust...best advice we were given was to remove rust dry and recoat and keep it dry and well ventilated.We did the majority of the boat floor when we had her 5 years ago and its lost barely anything and most measurements were 4.5 and above. Were just doing the last 8 feet now since its being redone inside and it looked like this throughout with wet soggy rust holding the water all the time.(sorry for pic quality) After scraping, Then painting, After all this the base plate has suffered very little if any, most important thing being get the rust out as ours rotted from the inside out. .

Ill be trying one of those i think, thanks Sounds ideal but i fear it would be 14 days crates of beer and numerous curries. They look wicked and much fun, ill see where i can get them from, thanks Thanks i will, i usually buy from screwfix as its nice to have a point of sale you can return too in the eventuality its rubbish.

Hi i have a 1976 harborough marine with a grp top and its just had to have a hull survey as i put a scraper through the side where the rear swim is and she started to leak. Its due to be surveyed next march for insurance so it had to be done soon anyway but we needed to see if it was worth keeping. Thankfully she only needs plating at the swim and the uxter plate so we will be keeping her. The other recommendation though was for us to remove all the old blacking as its that thick it just chips off and is quite pointless so my question to everyone is with the exception of scrapers how can i get this off as im sure sandpaper no matter what grit i use will clog instantly.The surveyor did mention something that goes on an angle grinder but i didnt catch what.Im assuming its some kind of wire brush arrangement but if someone could point me in the right direction that would be great. Also if anyone who can weld would like to come to st19 and quote me for the welding job message me and ill sort out a meeting.I do have pics of the places to do and measurements on phone and ill add them as soon as i can. Thanks.

Cheers ill be doing that That stuffs awesome, ill be adding that to the boat once shes in the water again, thanks

Its a plan but i think the insurers might want a little more reassurance than some hammer wielding maniac belting the boat to consider it insurable again. I do intend to do some testing though along those lines.

Cant really travel far in it due to the very temp fix sadly, having it craned out where i am on Monday but i need a welder and a hull surveyor if anyone can recommend one?

Yes i know, im resigned to this......wish i could weld. Id be interested if i could get her there, having seen how easy this has happened im a little wary of going anywhere until ive seen her out the water, but its an option still thanks.

Ok so we have a through bilge and the majority of the floor has been scrapped dried and painted for preservation.All except the last 8 foot has been done and now the engines fixed we decided to carry on with it.The floor was fine but where the bottom starts to narrow at the back i think its called the swim there was a lot of rust so i started to scrape it off and then the dreaded site of water happened.About 2 inches below the waterline i have a hole, well more of a slit leaking in water. For the time being i have filled a rubber glove with metal filler pushed it into the hole and hardened it off but it still drips a little and is in no way a permanent repair. Its got to come out the water and be surveyed before next March when the insurance is up so i know its got to have welding done but at £600 for a crane out at our marina against £250 for a week in a dry dock im going to try a temp repair using a product called waterweld which is suppose to cure underwater and plug any hole!!!. So im kinda looking for a few things.. Boats moored near Penkridge at Otherton marina, does anyone know of a drydock besides stafford sailing club nearby or reasonably priced crane in and out with time to work on boat. Has anyone used an underwater curing hole sealing product and if so was it any good and what is it Assuming i get the boat craned out at our marina is anyone here a welder who is prepared to travel to st19 to do the repair or, do you know a good reasonably priced welder who can do the job. Im guessing ill need the whole swim part done maybe both sides, she had alot of overplating done for the last survey so im expecting it but i may as well have her surveyed at the same time, so it might be whatever needs doing. All of this is dependant on it being economically viable but we dont want to lose the boat, beginning to think the boat gods dont like me.

Ive spent a month rebuilding my SR3 after a water seize and i had to remove all pistons.Every single one was caked in carbon and every ring on every piston was stuck in the groove.I removed every ring and cleaned them, got a good friend to hone the cylinders to get close to a crosshatch without increasing the bore and scraped out every ring groove. Then refitted the cylinder heads and pistons but she wouldnt start, white smoke no compression.Id cleaned everything including heads so my bump clearance and my tappet gaps were all wrong but when they were right she fired straight away. Its worth doing it properly as i have learnt but you have to pay attention to everything and every setting....they are so fickle when it comes to compression.

Thankyou its certainly a weight of the mind, at least now we can use it without bribing the kids to pull her along. Thanks for your help, i couldnt have done it without your guidance.

Yes hopefully theres some snippets of infomation others will find useful in here if its read from start to finish.I love reading these forums you learn so much and see things you can relate too on your own boat.

Thanks for the reply, i have today managed to get her started and saw that the stuff coming out is a sludgy oily gearboxy watery mess so im going to have to clean her alot once the mess has dispursed but on high revs it just gets flung everywhere lol....so im sure it will soon disapear.

Went back today and regapped the tappets to the right specifications after making sure i didnt have aluminium rods and tried her again and the exhaust gasses came from the right holes and after about 20 seconds she started to speed up and then she burst into life with quite blackish smoke and lovely black sludge being flung from the flywheel case from being submerged no doubt. She will now start off the key like she always did with 3/4 turns of the engine and tick over like i remember. So the main problem was compression, first the bump test which i cannot believe i didnt do the first time, and then regapping the tappets properly. Im indebted to the members of this forum especially Richard and Bizzard who answered and commented on almost every question i had and steered me in the right direction. I suppose as long as you know what your doing and have a modicum of intelligence and a willingness to learn and to admit your wrong and that you dont know it all you can do this kind of rebuild yourself with the help and knowledge of others. Im very happy today as ive gone from head in hands at £1000 rebuild to doing it myself with a few cleaning products the odd special tool(ie vernier) a few parts(piston rings,gaskets)and alot of time. Thanks again to everyone whos helped and if i can help anyone in any way down the line id be only too happy too.

If i had that money i might have done but we dont so i couldnt, the boats in stafford but its not that far so if i cant do it ill see about getting them to you. Thanks, another possibility quashed.

Thankyou, im not doubting you, just wanted to make sure ive not put it back together wrong.

Just going over everything ive done before i leave for the boat and looking at the timing diagram in the manual.Ive not took the cover off to check the markings on the crank and cam as they have not been removed but i marked the flywheel when i stripped her and returned it to this mark when i rebuilt her essentially returning it to its original position. Given the fact that the flywheel with do 2 revolutions to 1 cam revolution is it possible for the cam to be 180 degrees away from its timing marks and if so would this affect firing?. I know Richard said its unlikely its 180 degrees out but is it possible that its injecting on the wrong piston cycle?