DavidL

Hi, I'm a newbie around here, too, and am also addressing the question of painting a water tank's interior (although in my case, it's a brand-new home-made steel tank). There has been lots of discussion already about some of this, which you can find by using the SEARCH function. Besides "tank black" (I don't really knwo what that is - I'm not a Brit, so it may just be a hole in my cultural knowledge), there's also cement (said to be cheap and long-lasting and makes the water taste nice and sweet, but may fail and endanger pumps if not properly filtered), or a couple of other products - one is two-part epoxy (EXPENSIVE), another seems to be one part, with a price in the middle. either of these two later ones may be what you call "tank black." Try the search, and there are links to some of the other products. Let us know here, what you find most useful, eh? David, 1904 Dutch Barge "Plus Sum"

Thanks, It is a good start, and I'll look into the sites you offered. I believe the inspections system is quite different here - especially for private (non-commercial), small (under 15m/48?feet) craft. But, I like safety, and doing it up proper and all, so for me it's not so much about passing an inspection, as it is about knowing how my systems work, why, and optimizing said systems towards my values of economy, simplicity, redundancy, and reliability. Been busy with the project lately, so not on the forums much. I will be posting questions soon, as new threads (after searching through the existing info, of course). thanks again

Well thanks, all for your various perspectives. Seems to me lots of technology has advanced over the last few decades, and some still have some problems (some of which are inherent, others not), others are nearing "perfection." Costs are still an issue, too, in these and other technologies, especially as they move from industrial to "household" uses. And it seems my boat water system pressure varies not much, within maybe a quarter of a BAR (a few psi?), for the most part - it seems to me that many houses vary more than that throughout a given week, certainly within a year, no? Come to think of it, pneumatic air hoses like for powertools and tirepressure (at least like in USA and France) use a system that could be called "push-fit". They sometimes leak, too, but that's all besides the point, really. It wasn't obvious to me that john was arguing against technical merits of Hep2o, but maybe I missed something? What I'm facing on the retrofit is that the existing plumbing is generally in good shape, purchased top of the (food-grade flexible-tube) line within the last few years, (tubing, brass barbs, "T" jointss, a couple of ball valves, and two of the good german-made "Jubilee" clips on each barb). I'd rather spend money on fun stuff, but as long as I've got the walls, ceilings, and floors out, I'm wondering if I should take this opportunity to upgrade, or will I pay for fun now, by no fun in a few years of constant leaks. I do so hate to repair these water leaks, too. Even if a certain product isn't "perfect," will it reduce leak repairs by 90%? 20%? Who knows? I agree most internal water on boats is from plumbing leaks. Isn't internal plumbing leaks documented as the single greatest cause of sinkings? I think maybe that stat is from the US (but you'll find little defense from me of general boaters' (or any other Americans') sense! I'm a little closer to a decision, knowing that whatever info is incomplete/imperfect, etc. Looking into the locally available "push-fit" around here. It may be a day to three before I have more to add to this thread, but I'll check back. Again, thanks all.

Right. I knew that.

Hmmm. It's disassembled now, but with the system I described, I used a thermostatic showe control with no problem. First time I'd used one (found it at the diy store), and loved it. Maybe because my hot water was coming from a big storage tank, I didn't have to deal with issues that might arise in an on-demand water-heating system? That's where I plan to take the system, so can someone say more about temperature balancing problems with that?

Sure, once it's designed and built. Working on the aft cabin now, and deciding as long as I'm retrofitting the head, etc, I might as well fix up the water systems, oh and re locate the mains panel, and you know that 12v system needs lots of schematizing, rethinking, etc...

Thanks for all the great info. I'll look into the "pushfit" stuff deeper, and may be visiting UK before long anyway. I think I've got an "accumulator", if I understand it correctly. It goes like this, in sequence: from tank through tube (22?mm) (with inline filter) to a jabsco pump mounted on what the french call a balloon (a cylinder with rounded ends about 30 inches long x 20 diameter) and fitted with a pressure gauge. When supplied with 12v and the pressure drops below a set point, the pump runs a bit until the pressure is "topped up." then 22mm out to a "T" from which one arm goes to the cold main pipe (off of which run the feeds for cold taps, radiator top-up, etc), and the other arm goes to the existing mains electric water heater/storage tank (which I'm thinking to replace with gas on-demand and/or engine and/or central heating). Trying to keep it simple, yet I like the idea of independent systems (operating off of different fuels). Is that what you mean by an "accumulator?" Also, when you say two pumps, it sounds like you'd put the aforementioned "T" before the pumps. As it stands, if the pump I have goes out, I have a spare, but I would hate to have to swap it out in a time-sensitive occasion. (like I want some water pressure NOW! With two pumps, I'd need another "accumulator," right?

I'm also interested in hearing/seeing more on this discussion. If any of you folks who like what you've got can post some pics or sketches, that'd be great! Mines a retrofit, too, and I'm thinking of the raised seating for 1) see out the windows, 2) increased storage (below), and well, it seems "interesting." Was thinking of "U" shaped, but would prefer "L" with a table that stows away turning the dining area into a "living-room/salloon" area.

Thanks, Sounds like a water heater to me. My boat isn't all that narrow, but I've seen some of them here in France. But I think the issues are similar, on this point at least. I've got one water heater that runs on mains, would that also count as "calorifier" or does the term imply water heated by engine cooling water. Essentially, I'd like to simplify the systems on teh boat I bought. I've got the (newish) mains "balloon", plus a (middle-aged) diesel central heater for the radiators (makes much more heat than needed), plus a (middle-aged) gas on-demand / instant flow-through, plus an (older) box the engine cooling water flows through (which was probably like a calorifier, but why was it disconnected?) I wonder which systems I should plan to develop (engine, gas, diesel), and which to throw out (mains electric)? Could I get a "calorifier" that has internal coils for both the engine cooling water, AND for the water heated by the diesel central heater (treat it as a radiator from the ch perspective) ? That might help... Recommend a source? I'm in France but may be visiting UK in December.

Thanks! Will investigate!

2 Language clarification questions from an American (philosophical refugee of the current regime): 1) When you all say "lagged," does that have something to do with insulation? and 2) CALORIFIER: I know calorie means unit of heat, and the term is generally used about heating water, but here there's reference to pressure, too? My engine room came with a steel box that the cooling water goes through, with two closed off "inlet/outlet" type fittings - someone called this a calorifier, but I doubt real pressures are involved. Can someone "clariforifier" the term for me? is it sometimes used one way, othertimes another way? thanks! (Oh Yeah, we'll have lot's of fun learning English from each other...)

But the topic really is "painting the interior of a (non-stainless) steel tank", and I'm interested in this, too. I've heard and read about cement (don't yet know how to link to another thread, but a search brings up a few). Anyone have experience with both cement and "paint" - I've heard great stuff about "painting" the inside of (non stainless) steel tanks with cement. The real discussion there, seems to be how to mix up the cement (no sand, etc). Someone with relevant experience can add more?

Ok, so I can see the theoretical advantages of "modern push-fit" plumbing. And I'll think about moving in that direction (when I find a good local source). But it's rigid, right? Not really a "hose", which means, on a retrofit, potentially lots of extra joints, curves, etc. My local shop sells the (other) rigid stuff one glues together (I'd call it pvc, but might not be accurate). Is this a total waste of time? I've seen the hep20 website, I'll look more deeply into it. Are there other brands/trade names to be aware of? thanks for any further comments on this. I'm also going to post a new topic soon about something like "retrofit sequence" because I've opened a few cans of worms and want to start closing them up (properly) as soon as possible. Stay tuned! (and I don't get the graft reference at all - sure I know "graft" as "corruption" but I'm sensing a double entendre that escapes me - are thes pipes "grafted" together or something?) ALSO:where can one find pricing info on the hep2o stuff (is it me, or do these companies generally hide their prices from "casual" shoppers - until you've started investing in their "proprietary systems"?) Thanks bottle, that's a hose clamp to me! And I still don't know what a ring main is, I've seen it referenced in different contexts: water, mains power, etc? Can someone explain? thanks again

Lots of good ideas here. And I like that it's "pinned" so newbies like me can find it early. I like the bilge-peek idea, and the doors / curtains, and the skirting board for cableruns, as well as the exterior gas storage close to the greatest gas usage (galley), and of course LED's will be THE major light source over the coming years. And I'll add some more, and hope some of you more experienced folks can validate them or tell me why they're not great. Some are "provisional" for those of us not designing a new boat from 'scratch.' Background: I bought a 1904 dutch barge that has has at least two different "fit outs" over the last few decades, some stuff is older, some newer; some looks well thought-out, some looks to be lacking in recent "common sense" boating insights. Centralize Systems, within reason When I bought my 15meter/48foot x 3.6m beam barge, the 12v water pressure pump/balloon was all the way aft, the gas instant water heater all the way forward; the 220 distribution panel was (still is) also in the forward hold, and the galley is all the way forward. My thinking has been to bring things together into the engine room (under the wheelhouse, about 1/3 of the way from the stern). I've move the water pressure pump there, and I'm trying to figure out how to move the 220 panel and the hot water heater there - but I am concerned about having the gas heater (with it's "pilot light" (constant flame)) in the same room as the batteries. Engine room is pretty well ventilated, but from what I understand hydrogen gas sometimes comes out from the batts, and is somewhat flammable/explosive. I use a newer victron 1200w/50A charger which is supposed to moderate the charge current as the batts get charged, so reduce gassing, but...does my instant gas water heater with a pilot light need to be in an entirely different room? Simplify systems Related to centralizing, my boat came with a 220v household balloon style hot water tank (is this what you all call a calorifier?), and a gas on-demand, instant heater, and there's a big box that the engine cooling water goes through, which has two extra/closed pipe fittings on it (really I think this is what you call calorifier). I think this last item used to be connected to household "tap" hotwater (for showers, sink, etc), and/or for the radiator system (now powered by a Refleks diesel dripfeed). I'm hoping to cut out one of these water heating systems (probably the 220v balloon if I can figure out why the engine-heated "calorifier" was disconnected in the first place) Heavy curtains over drafty / less-insulated areas I haven't yet been able to refit all my single-glazed windows with double-glazed, or even to seal up all the cracks where air flows through (especially in the wheelhouse with sliding doors) - and it gets a lot colder here than most of you folks in the UK have to deal with, but I got some very heavy, floor-to-ceiling curtains to hang over my drafty sliding doors. You see these in restaurants all the time, and I kinda like the feel of entering from the cold, through the heavy curtain, into the warmth. Ultimately, I'll do up a proper new wheelhouse, with insulate walls and sealed doors, and double glazing, but in the mean time, 100 euros on curtains has probably saved that much on heating fuel (and the comfort is great). Work bench in the engine room I think someone mentioned this in this thread already, but is sure sounded good, small would be better than nothing, and maybe the seat folds down to the wall, but there's lots of little fix it jobs I do elsewhere now, and it would be nice to not have to clear them out of the way to eat! What should be installed, or easily reachable from such a "workbench" ? pull-out shelves for batteriesI've seen this on another barge and wonder about sourcing the good stuff. The idea being that you stack the batts up, but can pull them out to check the water levels, etc. I suppose batts should be in "waterproof / sealed, yet ventilated" boxes, but what if those were on sliders, like drawers? is this just too far into fantasy land? How much cable "slack" can you work into the system? Bigger water tanks I don't know about you all, but I figure the water tank filling routine is neat and all, but most of the work is getting the hose hooked up and getting the water flowing. Monitoring for 10 minutes or 30 minutes is hardly any difference (i'm always doing something else at the same time). So, my boat came with 440 liters water storage (~100 gallons) and I'm planning a 1000 litre water tank instead (i've got the room under the bed, which I'll raise just a bit). Bigger water tank also moderates temperatures better, too. That's enough for now...Your thoughts? ALSO: Can you say more about these things?Maybe it's because I speak English instead of British, or maybe it's my inexperience, but I never heard of a ring main, or a Residual Current Device. Can you direct my/our careful thinking about the switching of the split charge system and 220ac (continent) hookup?Why keep mains and batt cables well apart? heat? The batt cable should only heat up if it's overloaded, and if it's enough to melt the insulation, you're sure to have a problem! Is that what you're referring to? I agree "label the cable," but can you say more?thanks

I'm afraid I may just be adding more confusion here (or articulating some existing unknowns?), and recognizing that not everyone knows every detail of their boat's current (pun intended) systems, but... I've recently welded on my 1904 dutch barge (btw is it iron or steel?), and I generally disconnect the batts from the main 12v distribution panel, but once I forgot (doh!), and found no problems afterwards (thanks!). Moving it forward/onward/upwards: What's a good (simple-ish) source of info for how the electrical systems should be set up? Shouldn't everything (all "loads" i.e. lights, pumps, etc) be grounded (I think you brits say "earthed") back to the batteries, rather than the hull or engine block? Therefore (if everything is properly "earthed") what risk would there be welding to the hull if it's electrically isolated from the systems? (and I agree if there's any uncertainty about how things are grounded/earthed, better to disconnect than buy a new thingamajig or three!) I plan a lot more welding in the near future (once I can get the steel delivered), so it's one of many things I'm eager to learn more about as soon as possible.