Philip Davies

Hi In an earlier thread on Battery Monitors, Anhar asked me what my experience of this heater was. Here goes: In was fitted in my new build last year. Calcut supplied me with a Danfoss TP5000 programmable thermostat in place of the standard room stat. This unit, powered by an AA battery allows 6 events (temperatures) in a 24 hour period. There can be different settings for Mon - Fri and Sat & Sun. It also has an overiding 5 deg frost setting and works well. They also supplied me with a Ranger Programmable Timer module as well as the standard cylinder stat. This unit, powered by an AAA battery, allows up to 7 on/off periods in a 24 hour period. There can be individual settings for each day. I have wired it in series with the cylinder stat. The Hurricane system has a remote on/off switch together with a diagnostic panel which indicates what is going on (stats off, boiler off, etc). If the remote switch is on, the timer module on and the cylinder stat open, the boiler/pump will fire and heat the water in the calorifier, until either the temperature is reached or the timer off period activates. If the remote switch is on and the room temperature is below that programmed, the supplied solenoid valve will open (allowing hot water into the radiators) and the boiler/pump will fire until the desired room temperature is reached. During room heating, the calorifier will continue to warm up, despite the setting of either the cylinder stat or the timer module. In my 57' cruiser stern I have a towel rail and four radiators of various sizes, down both sides of the boat. The boiler is in the engine hole and the piping goes initially to the calorifier under the bed in the back cabin, through the solenoid valve to the towel rail. Then it goes down to the front of the boat and back down the other side to the rear radiator at the back of the cabin. It then returns the same way. A very long plastic pipe run. The boiler is rated at 9.4KW (forgotten how many BTU's that is). From what I can remember, total radiators are rated at about 60% of the specified output. The boat heats up very nicely. All radiators get hot and boiler cuts in and out to maintain water temperature. Calorifier gets very hot. I cannot comment on the quoted fuel consumption of 0.75 lph. It definitely does burn some diesel! According to my Mastervolt battery monitor when fully running, it does draw a high current of 7 amps total. (The manual only quotes 42W) Two points through: The exhaust gets very hot. Initially we had problems with the fumes from the lagging burning in, getting into the cabin. One thing to watch. The heating solenoid is energised by the room thermostat, even if the remote switch is off. It draws 1.2 A on it's own!! I left the boat for a month in the Autumn with, what I thought, the heating off. I could not understand when I returned why I had flat batteries, even though everything, except the Hurricane had been isolated. The stat had been opening the valve and drawing current the whole time. I now put the stat into frost mode when I leave the boat. This winter I have left the heating in frost protection mode and it seems to have worked well. Fortunately, I have a landline and a battery charger so the heavy current draw is not a problem. I hope this helps whoever maybe considering this excellent piece of equipment (you hear stories about other diesel heaters) Regards

Thanks Chris W for your advice. I tried Snibble's latest suggestion first. I removed the two 100 ohm resistors previously fitted in parallel with the panel charge warning lamp and disconnected the three 2.2 W lamps I had wired across the alternator and starter battery terminals on the split charge diode, as a test. I then cut one of the leads from the panel warning light (only 2W bulb), leaving the other lead connected to the ignition switch. Next, I connected a new wire from this disconnected lamp wire directly to the alternator terminal on the diode. Now, turning on the ignition, the panel lamp lights. With the throttle slightly open, the engine starts, the alternator excites, the lamp extinguishes and the rev counter registers about 1000 rpm. The domestic charge warning light also goes out and the warning buzzer is silenced. Blipping the throttle is no longer required! We have a solution. However, I am confused. I have been looking at the Barrus Shire Engine Manual. The wiring diagram for my 45 HP engine shows the 50 A alternator with four terminals: B+ and then in a 3 wire connector L, IG and W. B+ is shown connected to the starter battery (I had inserted a split charge diode in this lead) The Deluxe Panel Wiring Diagram shows the alternator plug connections: L through the panel warning lamp (I have now disconnected this) to the ignition switch. IG through the ignition switch to the panel volt meter and warning lamps for oil pressure and water temperature W directly to rev counter In the solution, there is now nothing connected to terminal L on the alternator. If the diode was not in place, there would be a direct link between the panel lamp and the starter battery which would permenantly energise part of the ignition switch and thus the panel illumination lamps. Hence I think that the solution only works with the split charge diode in the circuit (but the diode was what caused the problem). Very many thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

Chris W - I understand your latest suggestion, thanks. Snibble - I am confused. The Shire engine has a wiring loom connecting the engine ancillaries and sensors to the delux instrument panel. The main warning lamp has two wires attached. (I have already cut into these two wires behind the panel to fit resistors in parallel with the lamp as originally suggested.) I am loath to actually cut into the loom at the engine end. Would cutting one wire to the panel lamp (which one?) and running a cable from this disconnected lead to the alternator terminal on the split charge diode achieve what you suggest? Unfortunately I shall not be back at the boat until next week to try it.

Hi all I have been at my boat today. I rigged up a test lamp using 3 seperate 12v 2.2w bulbs in holders I got from Maplin. I connected them together in parallel. As Snibble suggested, I then connected them across the alternator and starter battery terminals of my split charging diode. With the ignition off no light. With ignition on, bulbs light. Start engine, bulbs go out, panel charging light goes out and rev counter registers. Hence I assume excitation has taken place. I then unscrewed one bulb. Same again. I then unscrewed a second bulb. Excitation did not happen at tickover. Had to rev engine to around 1200 rpm to get result. Hence two bulbs 4.4w seems to do the trick. (I still have 2 x 100 ohm resistors connected across the charging lamp). What do you suggest next? Cheers

Hi I have a Mastervolt Mass Inverter Charging Control which at a rrp of £450 must be one of the more expensive units. I am finding a major different between the state of charge (%) it reports and that determined from the voltage, using Chris W's table. Last time, I was at the boat, after a couple of weeks from being charged (Mastervolt charger on land line), it was showing 95% capacity but a voltage of 11.9%. I have two isolation switches and the one controlling the distribution board was off. Hence the only current draws would have been the Hurricane heating system (on frost protection) and the automatic bilge pump. All outputs go through the shunt. The meter reports amps consumed since last full charge and this tied up with the capacity reading. 25 amps consumed from a 480 AH battery bank. It makes me wonder if I have a problem with my 4 X 120AH maintenance free Squadron batteries, that are only 9 months old. Maybe the batteries were not fully charged, when I turned off the charger (it had been on for about 24 hours). I have now left the charger on. Cheers

Hi In my 22 feet open plan saloon/galley I have 12 no. 20W MR11 halogen lights in two banks of 6 mounted in the ceiling. (Ex B & Q) Plenty bright enough. However, to improve the "mood" both banks are connected to Blue Sea Digital Dimmers. They are quite expensive (£53 each from Aquafax) but they work extremely well. Regards

I use Fernox Alphi-11 in my Hurricane heating system. Quite expensive: £26.84 for 5 litres from Plumbing Trade Supplies. I used approximately 12 litres for a 50% solution. I drained the system, then refilled through the header tank. It's very important to premix with water before adding to the system. I did not, putting in alternate litres of anti-freeze and water. I ended up with a large cold spot at the top of my furthest radiator. Cleared it eventually by bleeding off the liquid. Cheers

Hi all I did not expect my query to "generate" so much discussion! Unfortunately, I am away from the boat for the next 10 days so cannot try the lamp across the diode suggestion. From what I remember, the label that one can just see on the alternator case says either "Barrus" or "Shire" and "50A". My belt is definitely not loose. The problem only occurs with the blocking diode in the circuit. With the diode in place and after blipping the throttle to excite the alternator, the light stays out and rev counter continues to register after I close the throttle to tickover. Snibble - If I put the lamp across the starter battery and alternator terminals of the diode, will I not be making a permanent connection between the starter battery and bowthruster battery, such that the starter battery will discharge, until it reaches the same voltage as the bowthruster. Regards

Hi Snibble I have been at my boat today. As you suggested, I disconnected my split charging diode and connected the battery +ve to the alternator. Low and behold the alternator excited on starting and I got a reading on the rev counter with the warning light out. (I still have 2 x 100 ohm resistors in parallel with the warning light) I re-connected the diode and I had to blip the throttle to 2100 to get the rev counter going. Hence, the problem would seem to be the diode. It is a Sure Power 2 battery 70A max alternator output blocking diode, supplied by Aquafax (part no. 8-30500) splitting the charge current between my starter and bowthruster batteries. I attach a photo of the 50A alternator fitted to my one year old Shire 45 engine. Not easy to see. I presume increasing the resistance fitted in parallel with the warning light will not make any difference. Any ideas or do I have to live with the problem? Thanks again. Regards

Snibble I am not sure what you mean "jump from B+ to alternator". Could I just disconnect the alternator feed to the diode and reconnect it to the starter battery output on the diode, thereby bypassing the diode. NB Phoenix Yes I also have a 240v Travelpower. Actually with 2 x 100 ohm resistors fitted, the buzzer no longer sounds. My problem is the large warning light is on and the rev counter does not register, unless I blip the throttle. I understand both are actuated by the 50A starter alternator. If the rev counter is not operating I presume no charge is being generated. You may wonder why I am bothered about blipping the throttle. I have a cruiser stern with the back door on the starboard side. The deluxe engine panel is mounted just inside the door on the side wall, slightly tilted so that I can see it from the port side steering position. I want to be able to start the engine in the morning, before I get dressed, without going outside. I leave the throttle in neutral and slightly open at night, so as to run the engine at about 1000 rpm. This is enough to run the Travelpower to make my breakfast! Cheers

Chris I put the second 100 ohm resistor in parallel to the first last weekend. Still needed to blip throttle. Shall get two 50 ohm 10w from Maplin and try again this weekend. As far as I can see, the two alternators are not connected together. The output from the problem 50A does go to a split charge diode, then to the starter and bow thruster batteries. Should this make any difference? Snibble I cannot see what make/model alternators are fitted. Where should I be looking? Barrus tells me that the Shire 45 has a Prestolite 110A unit. Cheers

Thanks all. Yes Chris, I did buy two 100 ohm resistors from Maplin. I shall try the second one in parallel with the first and the lamp, when I am next on the boat in 10 days time. I quite like the push button idea if this does not work. I would put in the diode as I know several fools who might come aboard. Cheers again

Hi A few weeks ago, in one of those mammoth electrical threads, I reported that I had to blip the throttle on my Shire 45HP engine to excite the 50A starter alternator, in order to get the main charge light to go out, to get the rev counter to register and to stop the buzzer sounding. It was suggested that I fit a 2 W 100 OHM resistor across (in parallel) with the charge light. I did this over the Xmas period but unfortunately it has made no difference. Having re-read the Shire manual, I note that it does say this blipping of the throttle may be necessary. Should I try a larger resistor? What size would be appropriate? The 110A domestic alternator, which has a smaller charging light within the voltmeter, does seem to get going without the blip. Cheers

Hi I was told by Dometic when I was fitting out my boat last year that the Travelpower was a "centre tap" device and it definitely should not have it's neutral bonded to earth. Cheers

Hi I started this topic over 18 months ago! In fact I ended up fitting a Hotpoint BWD129 washer/dryer as I could not get the Zanussi when I was eventually ready to fit it. This is hot and cold feed (difficult to find now adays) and works perfectly with both my Dometic 3.5KVA Travelpower and Mastervolt 12/2000 inverter, although a do not tend to use the latter. A point that I did not appreciate enough - repair/replacement. The machine went through the front doors and was installed in the back. Then the kitchen and L shaped sofa were built. A door was constructed in the corridor. Radiators and piping were fixed down the side. It would require major dismantlement. How many replacement machines will be required during the life of my boat? Cheers

Hi Just ordered a pair of stick on numbers with BW logo (no backing) from John Ryan for £8.10 + £2 postage. Cheers

Okay, I think I am a good guy. I have a Mastervolt 3.5 KVA Isolation Transformer on my boat. (weighs 6kg and cost £720) I also have a Mastervolt 12/2000 inverter and a Travel Power generator. These three sources go through two automatic "O" switches, then a RCB to the AC distribution board. The inverter case, a battery charger case and the distribution earth are connected to a stub fixed in the engine mounting frame (welded to hull). The -ve of the starter battery, bow thruster battery and domestic bank are also connected to this frame, together with a strap to the engine. I have an end of garden mooring and I have installed mains power via a distribution box in the shed, containing an RCB. A cable connects the live and neutral to the input side of isolation transformer via a standard blue socket on the cabin side and through a double pole breaker in the cabin. This Blue Sea breaker includes a power present LED and a correct polarity LED, as demanded by my RCD surveyor. My questions: 1. At the moment, the case of the isolation transformer is also connected to the boat earth. The landline earth is not connected to the boat in any way. Do the experts agree this correct? 2. Again on advice from the RCD surveyor, I have connected the neutral and earth together on both the inverter and the isolation transformer. He wanted me to do this on the generator as well. However, I checked with Dometec, who now make the Travel Power, and they said that I definitely should not make this connection as the unit was "centre tapped". Does this make sense? 3. Am I as safe and protected as possible? Regards

Thanks all. I shall try putting a resistor across the bulb. I am not happy blipping a cold engine where all the oil has drained down into the sump. Yes, the warning light and RPM meter seem to be connected to the 50A alternator which is connected to the split charging relay. The 110A alternator has a seperate warning light within the RPM meter that came on when my fanbelt broke. Cheers

Hi I am very pleased with the blackout roller blinds I got from Cabincare this summer. Also got fly screens to the Houdini and side hatches. Ned is a character! He did the fitting while I was moored by his hut on the cut. Cheers

Hi, I have just seen this topic. I have just completed 600 hours running in my first boating season. I have a Shire 45 fitted with 50A and 110A alternators, together with a Travel Pack 240V AC alternator. There are four 120AH domestic batteries. The 50A alternator charges both the starter and bowthruster batteries through a split charging relay. I have a Mastervolt Mass Inverter Charger Control Panel that monitors the voltages of both the starter and domestics banks. There is a shunt in the domestic circuit that measures the current out of or into the domestic bank. This panel can compute total power in/out and therefore capacity of the domestic batteries at that point. All seems to work very well. My questions/comments to those with knowledge/experience. 1. When I start the engine, I have to blip the throttle to about 1,500 rpm to get the warning light to go out and to get the rpm meter to work. I was told this was to excite the alternator. I only have to do this on starting. Is this normal? 2. After 300 hours, the 110A alternator belt broke. Fortunately, I was carrying a spare. I have been told that this is indicative of a problem. I can't find anything physically wrong with the set up. Ideas? 3. Initially, the domestic alternator seems to put about 80A max into a 70% capacity bank. This soon drops off to only 10A when the bank has only 80% capacity. I also have a Mastervolt 12/80 battery charger fitted. When we are underway, I turn on the Travel Power and the battery charger. Maximum input to the domestic bank rises to 100A or so. Eventually, the battery charger goes into float stage applying an input 5A or so. After 4-5 hours cruising I get 100% capacity. Is there anything wrong with this mode of operation? 4. I shall not ask if I would benifit from an external alternator control. Barrus used to recommend a Mastervolt system. I presume by using my mains charger I am effectively doing this. 5. My simple understanding of physics is that if you are using alternators to their full capacity, you are putting strain on the engine and hence burning fuel. Energy is not wasted by free loading an alternator (except resistance from bearings/pulleys). Regards

Yes, I have used them for mooring at the end of my garden. After screwing three of them into the ground, I dug a 25cm square 10cm deep hole around the top and filled with concrete. Boat is still there!

I do not think that us as customers would be able to get cover for advance payments, as the insurance company would be unable to assess the risk. I think the builder would have to arrange the policy. Maybe this is something that BMF could organise for its members. I beliebve it is essential to get some confidence back into the market. Having been stung once, I definitely would not buy another new boat without some real payment protection. (I am planning to get a Dutch barge in 3/4 years)

I lost money when Exclusive Boats went into administration. I have just ordered some replacement windows for my cottage from a local builder in Leek. I paid a 20% deposit, £600, for them to manufacture the frames. They gave me, without asking a Lloyd's backed insurance guarantee for my deposit. I have seen similarly guarantees offered when payment is made in advance for goods. Could boat builders not offer this protection? It would cost something and presumeably dodgy businesses would not get cover.

Thank you all for your commiserations on my loss. Barney, I am sorry that you lost more than me. Did you try anything to recover your money from Mr Mountjoy? Does anyone know how you find out who the Administrator is? I understand that Exclusive Boats have a couple of boats to sell, that they built on spec. I guess the bank and the tax man will take the majority, if not all, of any realisation. Steve (Anhar) is right. You do not get title on the goods unless the builder has paid the supplier. These smaller builders are such poor managers, with limited financial resources, that they seem to use one client's money to fund the previous boat in the yard. They underestimate costs (and time) and go for such small margins to stay competitive, that is not surprising that they go bust. Seems to the same story. They are not really crooks, as such, as they do not appear to be getting rich out of it. The infuriating point, is that they can so easily set again, leaving so many of us with a bad taste, having not really learnt any lessons from their failures. Companies House seems totally unable to regulate. I would like to ensure that Mr Mountjoy does not take anyone else's money. What can we do about it, except post our stories on this forum? My new builder is doing well but he also has a chequed past, although he assures me that he never let anyone down. I buy the materials and pay the wages and overheads. Hopefully I shall have no more financial disappointments.

I wish I had found this forum, before I contracted for my first lined sailaway plus NB in November 04. Having looked at the usual massed produced boats, I settled on Exclusive Boats of Stourport, run by one Steve Mountjoy. Why? Because he seemed to know what he was talking about, was very flexible with the extras I wanted, gave me a good deal and promised delivery in April 05. After some trouble finding a yard to fabricate the hull, he placed an order with Dragon Narrowboats, near Oswestry. They completed the hull, insulated it, battoned it, installed ballast and flooring and fitted the windows. They then decided that they did not want to do any further work on it. By then, I had paid, according to the BMF style contract, a total of £31,000 to Exclusive Boats. Fortunately they had paid Dragon for the work they had completed. The additional £10,000 Exclusive Boats held was supposed to cover the engine and its ancillaries. The supplier would not ship it without payment in advance. Another yard was found to complete the boat and it was moved there in October. Exclusive Boats gave them £5,000 to commence the line out and I was asked to produce more money for the engine. By now, I was very wary and I resisted the request to pay Exclusive Boats, instead paying the engine supplier directly, the £9,000 trade price. Exclusive Boats were unable to fund any further work on my boat, despite holding approximately £5,000 of my money and I am now told that they are going into Administration. Fortunately, I have now arranged for the second yard to do a complete fitout and I am funding this on a work completed basis. I now hope to be on the water in March this year, just a year late. I am told that I was very lucky to loose only £5,000. If Dragon had not been paid in full, they would not have released the hull. I also lost money on a mooring at a marina in the North West. Having been advised to secure a mooring before delivery, I paid 12 months in advance in April 05. When I knew in October, that I was not going to need it, I asked for a pro-rata refund that was refused. I have subsequently found an alterative on the Caldon Canal. The lesson I have learnt, as well as the obvious; cheapest is not best, is that unless your main contractor has paid his subcontractors/suppliers, you do not have any title to the boat/materials, as intended by the BMF style contract. Mr Mountjoy will no doubt reappear in the industry under another guise. He was involved with another failed builder; Bidston Marine. Buyers beware! [Exclusive Boats were featured on Waterways World – not a great success either]