Big COL

Hi Richard I purchased my first meter for my old boat for £150 when I said the price differential is minimal I was taking into account the time factor as well, I still calculate time even when fitting my own boat as any time spent doing something the long way round is wasted as you could have been doing something else with it. Time management on a self fit is just as important as a commercial fit out unless its just a hobby an using the boat is of no real importance.

John The information gleaned from these meters is as you say basic, and the terminology reference meter is probably more accurate, as they are not automatic and do not manage the state of the batteries. This is done by the operator using the information to hand which is a lot more than you would get with a basic volt and amp meter. However they are a very useful tool to have, I have one installed on my boat and would not be without it, it allows me the choice of if and when the batteries need charging so as not to run low during the night. Although the information is basic, it is accurate enough for the use on a boat.

Hi John You sound worse than me and my wife thinks that I am a Luddite. Battery management system probably better described as a battery reference meter, consist of one meter with scroll through functions depending on which system you buy and they are all much the same. It gives the following information. 1 voltage charge and discharge 2 amperage charge and discharge 3 Amp hours used and remaining 4 Time left in batteries Number one is straight forward it shows the battery Voltage during charging and discharging Number two is the same as number one only this shows the amperage for charge and discharge Number three shows the Amphours used and Amphours left in the battery bank. When you set the meter up you have to load in the total capacity of your battery bank, the meter then uses this figure as the base for its calculations Number four tells you what time you have left in the battery bank. This is calculated by taking the usage over the previous 15 minutes, the time scale for this is adjustable depending on the individual circumstances so the average can be taken over a longer or shorter period. In this mode, because batteries don't discharge at a linear rate, it uses Peukert exponent to compensate and to give a truer figure. Most of these meters also have the facility to couple in a battery temp sensor. With all of the information that these meters offer I can not see the point of using any thing else, the difference in cost is minimal and its a lot quicker fitting these than individual meters

John Your living in the past, and I am not being disrespectful, but most modern engines have twin alternators fitted with 45a/90a outputs a 60amp meter is well under rated. This is why battery management systems have come to the fore, although the meter on these systems is actually measuring volts via a shunt and then recalibrated to amps,it allows far more flexibility than a straight amp meter. I also like to be a purist when possible, but unfortunately technology runs faster than I can keep up with, and I have to admit as much as I try to keep up with it I am slowly loosing the race. I probable like your self like to stick to tried and tested systems, must be an age thing . Having said that you cannot buy EXPERIENCE.

Dor You could find one at head office collecting his redundancy package. When all the hands on knowledge has been disposed of and all that's left is managers managing under managers what then? This seems to be a common trend in industry today, since the privatisation of the utilty services most of the installations and maintenance is done by contractors, in the event of an emergency it appears they have very little idea where the services actually run, as the engineers that did were all made redundant A friend of mine who still works for one of the utility services was complaing bitterly about this situation. It appears that BW is going the same route but then we are not privy to all the facts

Alys As Paul has already suggested you may have the facility to heat your domestic water from your stove. This is assuming that your boat is fitted with central heating, and that the heating circuit is connected to the hot water calorifier. If not then your idea of an independent water heater is the only route to go if you require instant hot water. You can fit an immersion heater if your calorifier has the boss fitted to take an immersion heater. As John has indicated this will depend upon the size of supply at the marina to your land line, most marina supplies will support a 1kw immersion heater, you can get 500w immersion heaters,this will be slow in heating the water but will do the job overnight or during the day if you are away from the boat and not constantly using hot water.

Polystyrene versus Polyurethane. In all the debate on these materials there has been no mention of the differing U values in the materials, the U value being the rate that heat passes through a material. I would have thought that this would have been a deciding factor, for example 60mm of polystyrene has the same U value as 38mm of polyurethane. To compare like for like in thickness will prove to be expensive, but as you only need 60% of the polystyrene thickness if using polyurethane then the costings come down a little, and you are using in my opinion a better material.

I feel a monty python coming on Gas, electricity, central heating, hot and cold running water, and you still think you have it hard, huh. When I were a lad you had to walk two miles with a bucket if you wanted water, and just a piece of string for the handle, holes in yer socks coudnt afford shoes yer feet used to stick to floor in the frost, 'ands were blue when yer got back, and then yer got a bang round the ear from yer ma, cuss youd spilled too much water, many the time I had a gu agin as there wernt enough left, and you think you got it hard?

John Your tugging on legs again The logic in this only applies if the freezer or fridge is loaded with pre-frozen or pre-chilled food, otherwise any energy saved is used up freezing or chilling the goods down to temperature. Fridge economy can be obtained overnight by turning the stat up higher, the contents have given off the required heat to reach normal settings, and the heat loss overnight will be minimal as the door is closed for this period. Any heat gain will be offset by the colder contents, and the stop starts (short cycling) will be reduced. Short cycling is the main cause of a power drain, the start up currents are high and if this occurs too often the power drain is considerable. Thermostat temperature differentials tend to be around 1 degree C which to my mind is too short, if they were at 2 degree C you could halve the start ups where the high current draw occurs. This is where the gas fridge scores over the electric fridge, as it has no compressor to run, but I still wouldn't have a gas fridge for all that.

I was informed yesterday that BW has prohibited the removal or insertion of boats at lock sides until further notice. I believe its to do with health and safety in public places. Has anyone any further information on this?

Chris Mobility on wet floors is a problem on terra firma, add to this the factor that the boat's floor will be slightly mobile, and the danger increases. We have all experienced how difficult it is to walk in very wet areas ie swimming pools, public showers, and there are always warning signs (danger wet floor). Any foot grip that is Incorporated into the flooring, to be effective enough to work, will also become a dirt trap, and will never look as clean as the rest of the floor. The sanded walk way on the gunnels is a good example of this. The extra problem with large shower areas is that you introduce a lubricant in the form of soap, which then tends to nullify the effect that the flooring grip gives, this is not a problem when in a cubical because you cannot move much, but in large shower areas where you can move, it does become slippery. I assume that the shower area is to one side of the boat and any through traffic will not be stepping down and up to pass through, don't laugh, I worked on a boat where this was the case, a owner self fit, and to pass through the boat you had to step down and up to pass through the bathroom. I wonder how many medals he won for design with that one.

Oliver If the mixer valve is of the cartridge type, just remove the cartridge and immerse in descaler. If not you could turn off the cold feed to the pump, disconnect the hot feed to the pump,switch on the pump, pour descaler into the pump through the disconnected hot feed until it starts to flow through the shower head, switch off the pump and very quickly stop off the the hot feed at the pump. This will leave you with a solution of descaler through the pump and the mixer. After the required time turn on the cold feed start the pump to flush out the descaler and reconnect the hot feed.

Oliver It sounds as if the mixer is scaled up with lime scale. Its dangerous to swap the supplies to a mixer valve as the cold supply is normally a straight through supply controlled only by the on off knob. It can result in a serious scalding. Your test by swapping the supplies, has proved that the cold path is clear, this is why you got the hot water and has also shown that the path for the hot water is some how restricted, ie lime scale, this is why in normal use you only get cold water. You could try and descale it or change the mixer element for a new one. I am only second guessing this but knowing the locality it is a very hard water area.

Paul What started all this off, have you just linked the stove into the existing circuit. The reason that I ask is that in all the posts you never mentioned the header tank, and it set me thinking that you may have used the one in the gas boiler, which you say is valved off, I'm thinking of the safety aspect, and need to ask just to set my mind at rest.

The boat is in Kingfisher Marina, 4 miles south of Stoke Bruerne.

Richard Danny did the installation, and he was the one who told me how to control it. Offers still open to see a demo. Maffi Thats the very reason we had the power pack. Its running a washer dryer while cruising and works very well.

Richard Open invitation to see a working demonstration. Who did you talk to at victron? Talk to Danny at Victron UK at rugby.

Richard I can assure you it does. it was a problem to begin with as 160amps is to much for my present battery banks. To overcome this the remote panel with the victron has a shore power limiter. As you reduce this so down comes the charging rate. I set this by watching the charging amperage on the battery management meter which reduces as I reduce the shore power limiter, which when set at 2amps brings the combined amperage down to 100amps. very clever these inverters. I should add it also has a Beta alternator controller fitted.

James The way I have it configured it can do as it supplies a victron multi inverter, with the engine running the inverter sees that there is a mains voltage present, and switches over to the charger. This then combines with the 90amp alternator output, to give me a total of 160amps charging availability, which is controllable as this to much for my present battery banks

James This is horses for courses. It depends on how you intend to use your boat. I have in my 70' trad the Beta 43hp with three alternators, one 45 amp/h that charges the start battery, one 95 amp/h that charges the domestic batteries, and one 3.5kw x 230volts Electrolux travel power for mains electricity. We intend to retire to this boat and in doing so designed it to be able to cope with the power demands that maintaining all the creature comforts will put upon it. I've had my share of roughing it, an easy life in comfort (some chance) is what I will be looking for as I cruise the system (and no, that doesn't mean bridge hopping). It may well be in France, at the rate this country is going to the dogs. So decide what you want to do with your boat and design it accordingly.

Dor (Bridge shufflers) That seems to be the common complaint from all over the system. Eugene Baston from BW says the reason is simple: "If we had a bigger canal network, perhaps there would be more room for everyone, but we've only got 2,000 miles of water and that means there's limited space. And the number of boats is increasing every year." 2,000 miles x 5,280 feet per mile =10,560,000 feet divided by 70' =150,857 That the number of 70' boats the system would hold in single file, any one know the number of licensed boats?

PAUL Its called gaining experience. you know T shirt, video, book.

Paul OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH. Great to see you have cracked it, you may still have to bleed the rads again as the system settles down. but at least its working.

John Tesco do a nice disposable barbecue with a stand, all it needs is hood with a fan and your away. Not to sure about the Naked Chef theres already one of them, Seriously though we bought a cobb barbecue at the Crick show last year, fully insulated, and it will cook a whole chicken with the veg included, I didn't think you could advance a barbecue any more but this one is quite versatile have a look at the link and see what you think. http://www.seemans.com/cobb_bbq.htm