HYBRID

If had stolen the boat and commited a road traffic offence he would be in the clink for sure!

I have also pondered this, my other half does not want an engine room and considers it too intrusive on the living space, I made the mistake of taking her into hire boat ‘Holly’ whilst it was between hirers, it was tied up and idling at the time and the din inside the Boatman’s cabin was horrific. I think if you want an engine room then you definitely need to go for a very slow running engine with as few cylinders as possible. I have been trying to thing of a clever use for the space occupied by the Boatman’s cabin, but as it is cut off from the rest of the boat by the engine, it seems quite a waste of space other than a day room with an occasional bed. Has anyone ever seen a design of boat with an engine room with side doors but no Boatman’s cabin? Or the space used for something else. I think the reality in my situation is the more a boat resembled a living space with comfortable seating, good sized bed, a convenient, convenience and shower then it is likely I would use it more as there would be no room for protest from the other half. If her ears were ringing at the end of each days cruising then I would expect reluctance to go visit the boat.

How about an online guide maintained by members, I used to live in Alrewas (on the T & M) I Still visit at least once a week to see my parents so I could keep contribute to the update of that one, I also pass through three canal side villages during my daily commute of 30 miles each way I travel through Hopwas (Coventry Canal) Polesworth (Coventry Canal) Market Bosworth or Stoke Golding and a few others along the Ashby are possible depending on my route to work. Might be a good way of restoring credibility of the forum considering the bashing it’s been getting lately. Comments

Hats off to you man, that’s just the sort of job that inspires me to get off my back side and find a project. One thing though I notice from the last picture the renovation of your boat has aged you a bit

Thanks, dor, do you know of any companies willing to quote for insurance to cover a hire boat, so far I have been declined a quote as they all run a mile. Also, what is a commercial mooring, is it a mooring with a different set of charges? Who can verify this BW? I imagined attempting to obtain a mooring at an existing marina or boat yard to be located conveniently near to the service points for pump out etc on change over day and engineering expertise should it ever be required in a hurry. cheers

Thanks for the replies. Is the Lancashire considered a proper canal or is it forgotten as it does not appear to be part of the network that I know, how is it accessed from the main system? Also, I imagine due to the lack of locks it only appeals to a limited number of potential hirers, for me the locks are necessary to keep the other members on the boat ‘involved’ in the holiday. Any opinions appreciated. Thanks again

I am bouncing a few ideas around and have a few of questions. If a person wished to operate a privately owned boat as a hire boat, what additional regulations apply, is the standard safety check enough or is a more thorough inspection required. How to I get hold of the appropriate standards? Obviously the correct insurance cover is required, does anyone know of insurance companies offering competitive insurance to cover this type of use. How difficult is it to get a licence from British Waterways to operate a hire boat, are the numbers limited or are there an infinite number of licences available to suitable boats. Does anyone know who the appropriate contact is at BW? Thanks

Has anyone had any experience of Arlen Hire Boats in Preston?

Kookie These are my gawjussss doggies. We're in for a challenge, living aboard! they are real water babies. me, hubby and boat to follow. there are 5 in there. Nice Cockers, can I also spot a Wocker in there, we have a Wocker and its a great dog.

Is it possible for hire companies to side step the RCD if they self build the boat and keep it in use for five years?

Search your real name using google, you might be surprised by the information you can find, you might not. With identy theft on the increase I am not happy posting too much personal info on the web, unless it could promote my business as a Male Escort. The Escort bit is a joke by the way.

We hired from Middlewich Boats a couple of weeks ago, the Manager himself demonstrated the boat systems and asked me at each stage if I had any questions, we discussed locks, swing bridges & lift bridges he also pointed out the dangers posed by kids on the cut wanting to hold up the lift bridges only to drop them on the boats as they pass under. He stayed on the boat through the first lock, he then showed us how to re align the boat with the canal using the lock exit after the wind had blown our bow off line whilst we were shutting the lock gate, and at my request, he showed me how to reverse over long distances and maintain steerage. Whilst on holiday I witnessed a lot of techniques by hirers and boat owners that didn’t follow his or the advice in the guide book on the boat, but that’s just down to people and you can’t change that. My other half is not a great puzzle solver and I had to be very patient with her at the locks, even after completing the Shroppie up hill, it took 2-3 locks for her to get the hang of traveling down hill, if I hadn’t been there she would have struggled to figure it out. Accidents do happen, they are all preventable and hindsight is a wonderful thing. I find it hard to imagine a Manager who would shout at his customers, you can just see that happening in Tesco’s or at work. How very unprofessional

Is your boat a V Hull if so could you not mount the outboard to one side, I had a day boat once with a Mercruiser and stern drive fitted and when the leg was down the cavitation plate was level with the keel of the boat but my second back up engine was to one side and higher up the transom.

We arrived at Middlewich Narrowboats at 1.00pm Friday 20th July 2007 and reported a couple of hours early to the reception. After establishing our boat could be ready within an hour we set off to the nearest pub for a bite to eat, whilst the cleaning of 57 foot Semi trad “Rowan” continued. We returned to the boat yard an hour later and began unloading the contents of our car into the boat. I left the other crew to find spaces for all the food and gear whilst I studied the handbook and checked the inventory. We noted the bed arrangements were not correct and then spotted we needed extra pillows and duvets; this was easily resolved by the staff. After about an hour of chaos on board I handed in a signed form to say we were ready. The boat was facing the wrong way up the canal and with no winding hole near by and directly in front of us were locks we were anxious about losing valuable cruising time heading off in the wrong direction through busy locks as we hoped to make Barbridge Junction a four hour cruise for our first evening. I hadn’t handled a Narrowboat for 27 years (I was 13 the last time) so wasn’t confident at reversing the boat 200 yards around a shallow bend to Middlewich Junction. I ticked the box indicating we required instruction in boat handling and explained to the engineer demonstrating the boat systems that the instruction required was for reversing the boat. Top bloke, no problem he said and five minutes later we are pointing in the correct direction and entering the first lock on the Shropshire Union Middlewich Branch Canal, the engineer had jumped ship and we are off. Its 4.30pm and our self imposed schedule of Barbridge junction will be tight but still possible if I am to believe the online planner I have used to plan the entire trip. We soon settle into a cruise that because of time constraints is a little faster than I would have hoped for, but were not causing any wash related problems. By 7.30 the crew were hungry and had started preparing the evening meal in advance of arriving at Barbridge, unfortunately the timing wasn’t quite right so we stopped for a bite to eat between Minshull and Cholmondeston Locks. I was eager to reach Barbridge Junction as missing our first target would make the second days target a little further away so we pressed on at a 600rpm crawl due to moored boats to try and make the junction in the failing light., we never made the junction as the sun began to set and we were still 20 minutes from the junction, we looked for a spot to overnight. We found a quite section of canal and I started to steer towards the towpath, there was a boat moored a little further in front of us, as it became obvious to the guy on this boat was shouting and waving his arms at us, I dispatched a member of the crew to find out what the problem was, the message came back more up directly in front of him, there is a ledge along the towpath just under the water line which we will be banging up against all night, it was clear just in front of him so that was the spot. We settled down to a few beers and reflected on our experiences so far. Saturday 21/07/2007 We were up quite early due to the Cocker Spaniel among our crew taking great delight in running up and down the length of the boat waking everyone up because she was hungry. Under way by 9.00am slowly passed the lines of moored boats up to the junction, a slight delay at the water point waiting for another boat to fill its tank, they were first time on their new boat and heading off up the Llangollen. I got to try my hand at my reversing whilst I gave way to some boats but pretty soon we were underway. I was surprised at the width of the canal, I suppose as the Shroppie was the last canal built they had learned a lot and had improved canal design to allow easy passage of boats. We passed the Llangollen and noted how quite it was not a boat in site, we later found out that during the day the canal had been dewatered and a boat had sunk in one of the locks, don’t really know if it was related but it was very quite. Pretty soon we were being chased by some younger canal users in two day boats, they were having a ball but I would suspect their conduct may have upset a few people. We entered Nantwich and were surprised at the length of the moorings, a quick check with someone who looked like they knew the area ensured I stayed on the Shroppie and didn’t end up in the Marina. We met our first traffic jam at Hack Green locks, two boats in front, the second being a private boat who’s skipper complained about the boat in front traveling too slowly, he had all the gear, bow thruster, two way radios for lock operating and a very shiny modern looking boat. The locks split the group up again as we had to wait for a couple of boats traveling in the other direction. As we approached Audlem Locks all we could see was a queue of boats, eager not to upset anyone, we asked at the back of the queue if they were waiting to use the locks, no carry on they said, so we did, we just cruised straight into the bottom lock no delay at all. Just above lock three was the Shroppie Fly we had been told to stop here because the chips were fantastic, again, we were running against the clock as we wanted to make Market Drayton for the evening for a meal in the pub by the bridge, we managed a quick pint in the Fly and then proceeded up the rest of the flight. There had been a lot of flooding in the previous week, and the side currents as we entered the locks were very strong causing a few problems lining up with the lock. We established the safest way was to go as slow as possible so that any bump was as soft as possible and the structure of the lock could be used to guide the bow in. Unfortunately the dog took a dislike to the bumping in the locks so spent the remainder of the holiday off the boat whilst “locking”. It appeared we had the Audlem flight to ourselves the only difficult part being, every lock was set against us and the top gate on each lock had been left open, but we managed the lot in less than three hours. We cruised on and took in the Adderley Locks, we had had a good day, the sun had shone all day and we experienced no hold ups. Unfortunately time was once again against us and we were getting concerned about not being able to eat out due to arriving in Market Drayton too late. As we slowly made our way to Market Drayton it started to rain, we crawled passed the moored boats and moored near bridge 64. The girls were sent off to book a table at the local whilst the guys secured the boat and took a shower. For some bizarre reason the pub that had been recommended was closed so that was the end of that, the diesel stove was fired up and a meal was prepared on board. At this point I took the decision to modify our schedule so as to cut the pace a little and take in more of the surroundings. Sunday 22/07/207 We are surprised at how much water we take on board again but are reassured that we can do this daily, we are under way again at 9.00am. The sun is shining and very shortly we arrive at Tyrley Locks, here we have a lot of trouble due to the cross current's taking the boat way off line, but again slowly does it. We feel a bit better because some more experienced boaters tell us how bad it is due to the recent flooding, and made worse by the pound above being filled by someone locking down. As we leave the second lock we notice someone ahead setting the locks for us, this helps no end. We discover the guy helping out is the Chairman from the Lichfield & Hatherton Canal trust who has come out for the day to help on the locks. He explains that all the planning issues surrounding the reinstatement of the canal have been resolved and the only hurdle the trust now face is funding. We say our farewell and thank him for his assistance and continue our holiday. Feeling that we will never manage a meal off the boat we decide to stop for pub lunch at the next opportunity, the guide we are using shows a number of pubs along our route so with an eye on the clock we pull up at a pub I cannot remember the name of, whilst I secure the boat the others go ahead, when I arrive in the beer garden a pint is waiting for me, but the news the pub does not offer food brings with it a sense of irony. I consult the guide and suggest if we head for Norbury Junction we should be able to get food there. We swiftly finish our refreshments and are soon pulling into Norbury Visitors moorings and manage to get lunch, before continuing to Gnosal where we tie up for the night. Monday 23/07/2007 We take on more water, our intention today is to cruise to Brewood for refreshments at lunch time, turn around, and find somewhere to moor this time out in the countryside, the day went to plan, again we had superb weather, the scenery and mood of the canal in this area is fantastic. I chose to wind south of Brewood, I was surprised that the winding hole had moored boats both in it and opposite; I committed myself to the maneuver without too much hesitation and managed about a five point turn, holding position in the hole to let some traffic past. I didn’t know but my crew on the bow had been quite concerned at how close I had put our bow to the boat moored in the hole, they estimated about two feet further would have been a collision. From the stern I had no idea it had been this close and would have said nearer six feet. Lesson learned then. The holiday now took on a different feel, we were almost sad that we had turned around and were heading back, but at least now we were in front of the planned schedule and could take our time with the return journey. We moored up away from civilisation somewhere near Church Eaton and lit the BBQ. Tuesday 24/07/2007 Underway by around 10.00am and enjoying the slower pace, the boat is running at around 1100rpm and to be honest I have completely forgot about my life on dry land, we are all suffering some kind of land sickness, as every time we leave the boat we seem to imagine the ground in still moving and rocking. I am writing this from memory and to be honest today was a blur at 2mph, I remember it was very hot, I was now standing bare foot steering the boat, and I keep burning my toes on the brass plate on the deck marking the position of the battery isolator switch. We chat to a couple from Canada who holiday each year for a month on the canals, and listen to the stories of their holidays. A pit stop again at Norbury Junction for Ice cream and the dog decides enough and jumps ship. I am amazed at the dirty looks we get as the dog leaves the boat unleashed for what must have been 40 seconds whilst she is retrieved from having her tummy tickled by some children. We pressed on through the Tyrley locks which were so much easier now the side currents had died down and we are exiting the locks rather than trying to enter them. We eventually moor in Market Drayton in the blazing sunshine and had a well deserved pint in the pub. The boat brochure stated that with normal use the toilet holding tank would last a week, the boat was a six berth with five crew onboard, we must be abnormal because we had to spend the evening and night without a toilet as it needed pumping out. Fortunately we had a key for the BW facilities at Market Drayton which saved the day, literally. Wednesday 25/07/2007 Got up and made enquiries about pump out facilities and found them at a boat yard near bridge 65, this delayed our start a little and we found that for the first time during the holiday we were traveling in a convoy of boats. I didn’t like this as I was being pressured to go faster than we needed. When the opportunity presented itself I slowed to let boats past. Couldn’t understand why people would rush towards locks, it seemed to me if you take your time getting there chances are there’s no queue. Earlier in holiday we were told to try the chips at the Shroppie Fly, it was no coincidence we would be passing its front door at lunch time, I can only say, don’t be put off by the prices in my view its worth the experience, you wont come away feeling hungry. We took on more water outside the pub and continued down the flight. At this point during the holiday we started to sense a change in the feel of the canal, but on reflection this may have been because we were encountering more users. One particular boat owner protested at me pulling up 7 boat lengths in front of his moored position, I was only picking up the dog after a stroll along the tow path, he thought I was mooring for the night and made it quite clear I wasn’t welcome, anyway why would I want to moor near a boat that had signs on it claiming “live snakes onboard” I presume that it was a reference to its owners not the pets! We continued to find a spot without any other boats in sight and had a lovely evening drinking wine and communicating with the passengers of a Virgin Hot air Balloon passing over our mooring. Thursday 26/07/2007 This was our last day on the boat, we had to hand it back at 9.30am tomorrow, we had plenty of time so the throttle was set at 1000rpm and we trickled back along the canal, we were soon though Nantwich and shortly afterwards we were passing the now very busy junction with the Llangollen. In what seemed like moments later I was tying to the mooring rings outside the Barbridge Inn and enjoying a nice pint of Speckled Hen in the sunshine, with just water to take onboard one more time at the junction and then an easy stretch to Middlewich with the reward of Fish and Chips at the end, we relaxed our way back. We left the final lock until the following morning as it is only 200 yards from the boat yard and I did this single handed holding the boat in position in the lock using the bow line and even had to climb down the ladder in the lock to get back on the boat. Everyone enjoyed the holiday and we will be back, but for two weeks next time. Hope you enjoyed the diary.

I think the point being made is the boat is personalised to the owner, my opinion is these details can be changed, but I may not think like anyone else. I remember watching those programs about selling houses, the advice being to de-clutter and paint everything neutral so the house was a blank canvas and not personal to the owners. Perhaps this could be a way forward with the sale, personally I quite like the cat. Correctly or incorrectly I interpreted this as the owner having a sense of humor. Rather that than a load of canal art accessories for me I am afraid. Good luck with the sale.

Thanks for the info, well aware of the danger of the sills so don’t intend to do any dry docking in the locks. Apart from bandits which seem to be the exception rather than the norm, the only apprehension I have is related to other canal users, I understand I am entering the canal at its peak time so I hope that every one leaves the pushing and shoving I witness on our road network each day locked in their car. I am looking forward to a laid back experience, Last time I was at the helm for a week I was 13 and am keen to re-live the memories. Thanks again

I am traveling the Shropshire Union in a hire boat the first week in August, we intend to travel from Middlewich to Autherley Junction & back, we considered the Four Counties Ring but decided it would be too hectic in the time we have. I wanted to get my mind straight how to operate a flight of locks. I ask the question with respect to knowing what to expect from other users, as well as how to behave ourselves. I am assuming the flights have no pounds between them so it is not possible for boats to pass halfway up or down the staircase, is this the case? On approaching the flight if it is in use by a boat traveling in the same direction as us and a boat is waiting to use the flight in the opposite direction, it is necessary to allow the opposing boat to navigate the flight before we enter and likewise should we be realistic in expecting to be able to use the lock flight without having to wait for a convoy of opposing boats. We will be on Rowan one of Middlewich Boats fleet if you see us please feel free to introduce yourself. Thanks Lyndon

Shropshire Union is currently subject to a stoppage until further notice by fallen trees at the Woodeves cutting near Market Drayton

I have worked on engines for a good many years, I have seen, first hand bore glazing. The engine in question was a Discovery 200Tdi the symptoms were low compression, dirty exhaust, high oil consumption. It did not emit white smoke (unburnt fuel) when cold. The cause was the engine had been rebuilt with second hand pistons and rings from someone elses worn out engine these components did not mate with the already worn cylinders and therefore polished the cylinder walls very well indeed. In my experience running an engine off load is not desirabl;e, I believe engines are designed to operate at around 75% of there full power rating, anything else reduces engine life. But I also think that if an engine was built correctly and run in properly (under load without excessive idling) then it would take many, many hours of continuous off load running to cause a problem which I suppose t is achievable over time on a narrowboat. If I had to run an engine to charge batteries I would at least attempt to get it up to temperature as quickly as possible by running under load, once warm I might knock it out of gear. I read a lot of posts relating to white smoke at idle or until the engine is at working temp, in these circumstances I look at general engine condition – compression – oil consumption, then injector pump timing. injector spray patterns and finally injector pump calibration and pressures. Sorry if it’s a bit off the topic of gear box lubrication but I just wanted to share this.

Ok, thanks for the replies so far, my initial post assumed a budget of £40000.00 I wonder if any one would care to share any experiences of buying a boat well below this budget. So, setting the budget at ‘as cheap as possible’ what can I realistically expect to pay assuming I am looking for a boat that does not requiring the hull welding (yet), but would benefit from a repaint, the engine runs but may need work in the future, and an interior that is useable but could be improved Any comments welcome. What I am trying to do is get an idea of the financial level I should enter boat ownership, as I have said before, I am not afraid of tackling things to improve in the long term but don’t want to buy something that is useable from day one. I know I need to start looking at some boats, its just I don’t feel I have enough info yet to get learn anything from looking. I also need to know how many toys I should sell to fund it. On a plus side we have booked a week on a 58ft semi trad from Middlewich, this will be a baptism of fire for my partner, after the week away I hope to have the green light to start planning for a boat. Unfortunately we are out in August as I have to take fixed holidays, but we intend to go with the flow so to speak. Thanks

After nosing around this forum and generally getting a feel for the experiences and thoughts of the members through their posts I am worried. The bottom line is, at some point I want to buy a Narrowboat, and I will have to work to a budget. My budget is limited by a number of factors. • What I can afford • What I am comfortable spending • What the market has on offer For the purpose of this post, assume a budget of £40000.00 max but less would be better, this would give me the option of either a sailaway or a secondhand boat. I would ideally like a trad or semi trad boat I am concerned by the following • New boats, even some expensive ones can be supplied problems stored up for the future. • Second hand boats have the same issues, as they are the new boats to which I refer, just further down the chain. I am a bit of a perfectionist and if something isn’t right it plays on my mind until I put it right, surveyors are limited in what they can survey on a completed boat and I doubt they will be interested in establishing how much internal hull corrosion is present, just how thick the steel is. With so many bad builders, craft manufactured by builders that no longer exist, boats owned in the past by people ignorant to the problems, careless and neglectful owners (have seen a boat currently advertised as engine last serviced three years ago) and a finger in the wind attitude to prices how do you buy a good honest secondhand boat? I can accept any craft has a limited life, but it appears from my observations that many are built with the knowledge that when problems surface from lack of attention to detail, sufficient time will have passed to ensure the manufacturer is not responsible. I have seen some new craft on web sites that are obviously built with quality and reputation in mind, but these I am afraid, fall outside my budget. In a previous post it was suggested an ex hire boat requiring total refurbishment was a route to ownership and I can see why this might be a good idea, but there must be an alternative, easier route to ownership.

I would speak to the boat manufacturer. As I understand some primers are not impervious to water, they will allow the steel to rust. The other problem is the primer retains some moisture that you will seal in with the gloss, rusting will continue under the paint and the top coat may blister within 12 months. If the primer has absorbed water the only option is to return the steel back to bare metal and start again, as the gloss will store up problems for the future. It maybe possible that the boat has been painted with a fancy primer that is sealed like gloss, I am a bit out of touch with latest technology paints but the fact you have rust forming already suggests otherwise.

I think the info coming to light here is useful as from a virgin buyer’s perspective and coming from that perspective this is info I have not managed to unearth until posting on this forum. So, in an attempt to sum up again. • A finished second hand boat over 5 years old offered for sale will be accompanied by a valid or invalid Boat Safety Certificate and if on the water way, a valid licence. • A finished secondhand boat under 5 years old offered for sale will be accompanied by a valid Boat Safety Certificate, Be CE marked and have the RCD (annex 3 ?) to prove conformity to the build regs. • Anyone now self building or finishing a sailaway, wishing to sell the craft (at any time in its life?) will need to have completed complied with the RCD requirements, otherwise the craft is not considered up to the required legal standard. • A finished boat of any age purchased with the correct legal documentation can be modified by the owner, but the modifications will need to pass the BSS test. To answer some of the questions posted, I am not a total Narrowboat Virgin and have had a couple of Holidays but both a long time ago. We hired a boat from Tewksbury and traveled up the Avon to Stratford and back in about 1981 I seem to recall at the time we wanted to do the Avon Ring? But a tunnel was undergoing repairs. A few years later we traveled the Trent & Mersey and the Caldon, based on that experience I decided the Avon was too big and not quaint like the canals. I am hoping to make a booking later this year for a week away in October, I would like to hire a Trad boat to see how we get on with it, this is the style that appeals to me but I have questions over the small stern because the two of us might be isolated whilst cruising and then my wife’s ability to cope with the engine in the living space, which of course is my prime reason for preferring this type of craft. The holiday is going to be a tester if my wife likes it then we shall be giving serious consideration to buying a boat. Oh and I live near Lichfield. Hybrid

Garry, Sorry I should have worded that better, I meant a secondhand boat. Why over 5 years old surely a second hand boat is just that regardless of age? Hybrid

Ok lots of useful info and leads for further research, thanks and by all means if you wish keep it coming. To sum up so far, As an individual I can buy and sell a boat and pretty much do as a please so long as the craft complies with the BSS and I declare any income tax obligations. If I declare this activity as a boat building refurbishment business then other regulations come into play. I am about to commence a course in cabinet making in preparation for my own fit out (one day), this idea has sprung from these self build ambitions and my desire to move away from the field in which I currently work. I am not looking to exploit all you decent canal folk just looking for an opportunity and I stress I have never been a secondhand car dealer, so please don’t label me Arthur Dailey. My existing skills - I can weld, refinish/paint to automotive standards, I used to build engines and gearboxes for race cars, I currently work in an automotive electrical environment so understand electrical circuits etc. I can do a bit of plumbing and if you want your garden landscaping I do that as well, but only part time. Basically I love working with my hands, I never employ trades people unless it’s to do with gas, preferring to teach myself how to repair things. At work I get all the problems on my desk because my boss knows I love that kind of thing. I once owned a day boat that I used to trailer to the Welsh coast, this was an old tub with a Mercruiser Stern Drive. It cost me a fortune to make reliable and nice. After 6 years it was in pretty good condition but, it turned into my mill stone, hanging firmly around my neck. It took ages to sell and still required regular maintenance whilst it was sitting on the trailer. I let it go for a big loss. I think I will keep my eyes open and spend a bit (poss. quite a bit) of time surveying the market for that elusive boat, basically sound in condition but in need of T.L.C. sitting at its mooring awaiting its new owner. I would hope to cruise a little, improve it and sell it on, work my way up the ladder to what I would be happy keeping. Some how that sounds more far fetched than my original idea! I will have lots of other questions so expect me to be a pain in the bum for quite a while. Oh and a thank you to Tired Old Pirate I would love to meet you and see your boat, and may contact you in the future, if you are ever cruising near Fradley Junction give me a shout and I’ll get the beers. Thanks again