MichaelG

Hi, Ive made an offer on a boat which has been accepted. Ive asked the broker what paperwork, proof of the vendors title etc they have. I'm awaiting their response. The brokers have are one of a chain at a number of marinas around the UK and they tell me the paperwork will be held not at the marina but at the main office hence not being able to see it while I was actually there.

Hi, what responsibility does a broker carry for ensuring that their vendor has title to a boat they are instructing the broker to sell?

When buying a house you dont pay the seller a penny until you complete. Neither the seller or buyer are at all committed to complete until contracts are exchanged, usually a week or so before completion. That in essence is the problem when buying houses and gazumping. Although the seller doesnt get a penny until completion the buyer has a number of expenses such as legal fees, searches and surveys etc., all the while the seller can pull out at a whim. So that is I think where the process we have discussed when buying a boat is preferall, IE at least both parties are making some comittment at the point an offer is accepted and a deposit paid.

There has to be some firm commitment from both sides, IE the buyer has to make a commitment to buy and the seller a commitment to sell otherwise the whole process is unworkable. The deposit is the buyer demonstrating his commitment to buy and taking the boat off the market is the seller demonstrating his commitment to sell to that buyer. Plus ofcourse when a deposit is given a conditional agreement is made by both sides. If ether side pulls out I guess we could call that a breach of contract.

That's encouraging as I'm buying through ABC.

Hi, yes thats why I used "should" and not "will". There's always the risk of gazumping but ever the optimist I am hopefull that the brokers are professional and honest enough to keep to their word that the boat is off the market once the deposit is down.

Hi, I too am in the process of buying a narrowboat via a brokerage. Whilst looking I visited a number of brokers and a 10% deposit with the balance payable subject to a satisfactory survey seemed to be pretty standard. Most quote they are members of The British Marine Federation and comply with their policies. I have just paid a 10% deposit and the boat is being surveyed next week. The contract states the purchaser may reject the boat and have the deposit fully refunded if their are material defects to the vessel or its machinery that would exceed 5% of the agreed purchase price to rectify. So basically a deposit is a commitment to complete the purchase unless something pretty significant is found wrong with the boat. Then its up to you if you reject it, get your deposit back and walk away or negotiate the price down to take account of the faults or have the vendor repair the faults prior to completing the purchase. Personally I think its reasonable enough as once you've put your deposit down the boat is under offer and the broker should be turning other potential buyers away.

Well last weekend we visited Northamptonshire to continue the search for our narrowboat. We found and made an offer on a 57 feet Heron boatbuilders narrowboat. The offer was accepted and we are now keeping our fingers crossed that the survey will be good so that we can complete the purchase. From what I have been able to find on the interweb Heron boatbuilders went out of business in 2006. The brokers details indicate the boat was made in 2006 and fitted by David Forth so I imagine it must have been amongst their last boats. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who owns or has owned a Heron boat or has any information about them.

Hi all, I have seen a 1990s narrowboat that I was interested in but it is shown as having polystyrene insulation. From what I have read it is the least desirable type of insulation with sprayfoam, rockwool and slab materials such as kingspan being much better. I understand it can also shrink back over time causing cold spots and degrades electrical wire insulation if the wiring is in contact with it rather than in conduit. I just wondering if polystyrene is such a poor material I should disregard any boats shown as insulated with it. Would be interested to hear from peoples own experiences with it.

Hello and thank you for your recomendations. Now all I need to do is find the right boat in the right style in the right layout in the right condition in the right length and at the right price. Oh and ofcourse the OH and I have to agree on what is "right", should be a piece of cake!

Hi all, does anyone have any recommendations for surveyors they have used. Most of the brokers we have been looking at are clustered around Northamptonshire, Derbyshire and Staffordshire so it seems likely we will end up buying from one of those areas. I think an average price for a survey should be in the region of £700 for a 57' boat, would that be about right? Also what professional qualifications or trade body memberships are nice to see a surveyor has?

Hi all, so after several GRP cruisers we are finally in a position to be able to look at getting our first narrowboat. Initially for leisure use and when I retire in 2020 to liveaboard. We are looking for nice tidy boat around 57', traditional or semi traditional stern, post 2000 with a budget of upto £60k. So on Saturday we joined several million other people for a slow meander up the M1 to visit a broker in Derbyshire. The boat we had travelled up to view was nice enough, a 2003 57' up for £53k but it wasnt quite as tidy in the flesh as it appeared in the photographs and it just didnt quite tickle our fancy so to speak. So the search will continue.

Hi all, we are currently looking for our first narrowboat and I was wondering if there are any particular things that should be looked out for when the boat has been fitted out by the owner rather than a professional boat fitter. Clearly a lot will depend on the skills and abilities of the particular owner but are there any points in that should be looked out for in a DIY fit out.

On the subject of boat surveyors, a previous post said that anyone can call themselves a boat surveyor without any formal qualifications. I have just looked at an old survey from a few years ago and the surveyor showed on it his qualification as Master of Science diploma in small craft surveying. Does anyone know what formal qualifications to look out for for a narrowboat surveyor. Clearly experience and personal recommendation goes a long way but what formal qualifications should you be looking for?

Whilst it is true that a survey will have terms and conditions which seek to limit the surveyors liability I am convinced that a survey is money well spent. Unless you are completely confident in your own level of skill and expertise to do it yourself and/or the boat is very cheap. A survey won't guarantee you are not buying a lemon but in my humble opinion will significantly reduce the risk that you are. I have had four fibreglass boats surveyed in the past and in every case the survey threw up issues that required attention that I hadn't spotted myself. None prevented me buying the boats but in each case I was able to negotiate a price reduction to go towards resolving the issues. I did buy a couple of boats without survey but only because they were very cheap so the financial risk wasn't great.

Hi Derby 65, I am looking to buy A narrowboat soon and personally I wont consider buying without a survey as at the very least it will give you some peace of mind. I have owned several fibreglass boats over the years and found insurance companies have always wanted sight of a recent survey before they will put the boat on risk. Understandable I guess as they dont want to insure something that for all they know, without sight of a survey, could be about to sink. I am not sure if they will accept a survey commissioned 15 months ago by the previous owner.

Hi all, very worth a thought but I would guess that £40k would be better spent on a new hull which for around that price would come lined and painted. Plus reverse plan wouldn't be my personal choice so a lot of the work already completed would end up being redone. Having thought long and hard my current thoughts are to find a nice used but well cared for boat.

Hi Murflynn, all things considered in my own personal case your advice is I think spot on and I think I will go down that route of buying a good used boat and then tinkering with it to suit. Listening to the advice of other posts has also served to confirm my suspicion that fitting a sailaway would probably be biting off more than I could chew. For example I wouldnt have the benefit of having the boat very close as I am not very near to a waterway and working full time would restrict the amount of hours I could devote to it and string out the build time. Plus ofcourse the thought of being out boating is a little more appealing than being up to my knees in sawdust, plumbing and wiring.

Hi, thanks for all the comments, food for thought. I doubt I will find a used boat "off the peg" exactly what I want but probably near as damn it and ofcourse a new fully fitted bespoke boat would be way out of budget, hence the thought of a sailaway. I think the comments about project time are spot on, projects always seem to take two or three times longer than you anticipate. I think maybe a decent fully fitted used boat with a little left in the budget for tweaking any niggles may be the best route.

Hello, as I said on a previous post I am looking to buy a narrowboat within the next year to be used for leisure until I retire in 2020 when I intend to liveaboard for a few years. My budget for the boat is £70k for which I hope to get a decent quality 57ish footer around 10 years old. The other option is to buy a new sailaway and fit it out myself. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has gone down the sailaway route. I am not a professional tradesman but am a moderately competent DIYer and can turn my hand to most things. I have refitted a fibreglass cabin cruiser before but maybe a 57 foot narrowboat might just be a bridge too far? I believe you can get a 57 foot sailaway for around £33k and I read somewhere that fit out costs excluding any professional labour would come in at around £15k. I would anticipate that I would have to factor in some professional labour charges to cover some areas for safety I couldnt do myself such as gas fitting. Fit out time I have read that putting in a couple of days a week would take a year or so. Would that be about right? So basically I am thinking do I spend my hard earned on a decent fully fitted used boat or on a new sailaway.

Hi, presuming it is as tidy when seen in the flesh as it looks in the photographs I would say it looks pretty reasonably priced. Personally i would see a solid fuel stove as an essential item so worth investigating the practicalities and cost of having one fitted.

Hello, as many boats have the stove towards the front of the boat how much of the heat actually manages to find its way to the stern, IE the bedroom. Other than using a back boiler feeding radiators are there any tips on how to distribute the heat from a stove around the boat. I would also want to have an Eberspacher or similar diesel fired heating system as a secondary source of heating but wouldn't want to have to use it as my main source. I understand they can be a little noisy and temperamental not to mention the cost of fuel.

Hi, thanks for the comments and advice. I have seen some brokers Ts&Cs do seem to make the prospect of any post survey negotiation unlikely if you have already negotiated a pre survey reduction on the price. Oh and the best of luck with your boat too Grumpy Triker.

Hi Tony, I see what you mean, my wording was a bit ambiguous, what I meant was I realise the larger length would prevent me accessing some sections of the system not that it would limit me to a very small area. I know 57 feet is pretty much the universally quoted go anywhere size.

Hello, my name is Michael and new to the forum although not really new to boating. I've owned several fibreglass cruisers over the years but never a narrowboat. My only experience of narrowboats is from hiring. The thing is I am looking to buy a narrowboat within the next year and use it for leisure for a year or two while still working. I will be retiring in March 2020 and the intent is to rent the house out and go cruising for a few years so the boat will have to be a suitable liveaboard. I am thinking size wise 55 - 65 feet, I know the larger end of that scale may limit navigation slightly to a few sections of canal. Age wise I would like less than ten years old but pretty flexible on age if the boat is right. The budget is a maximum of £70k. Here's the thing though, I have been looking online at the various brokers and many seem to price their boats at what look to me to be pretty speculative prices. I would be interested to hear any experience people have buying from brokers, in particular if you have found brokers price boats at high levels in order to build in room for buyers to negotiate the price down.