Bargebuilder

My wife and I, when we had a separating loo, needed to swap it for an empty one every 8 to 10 weeks. You, with a pump-out need to empty every 3 weeks. Composting bins for toilet waste wouldn't need to be more frequent than pump-outs as they are needed a lot less frequently. Of course they'll be abused by mistake and deliberately, but if CRT provide no suitable bins, what do you think will happen then? With a pump-out, once your tank is nearly full you have to find a pump-out facility urgently, but when you're composting, as you add fresh material, what's already there dries out and or decomposes, so the receptacle is incredibly slow to fill. Therefore, when composting, you can be nearly full for literally weeks, so there would never be an urgent need to find a legitimate CRT supplied composting bin, so such bins needn't be any more frequent than pump-out facilities. I would hope that the vast majority of boaters would be responsible, but I accept not all. I would suggest that those boaters who are not responsible will ignore the new ban and throw their toilet waste in the Biffa bins anyway, which may cause more problems for the CRT than accepting that composters are here to stay and providing a facility for their users.

If a narrowboat broker refused to handle boats without RCD certification, he wouldn't have many boats to sell.

The're not here to reply, so it's only fair to mention that the Foxes were content to use their cassette toilet until they discovered the many benefits of a separating loo as an alternative and they did, in fact, have a spare cassette on board. Most of us have emptied toilet cassettes but I doubt that many of us enjoy the smell and the occasional splash back and the sheer frequency of the less than pleasant process. I struggle to criticize someone for finding an alternative that has no smell, very little weight to carry, no foul containers to rinse out and no danger of having to flush splashes of human waste out of ones eye. In common with many or maybe most users of separating loos, the Foxes make no effort to compost, but the CRT, a very short time ago, praised such toilets and encouraged their users to deposit their 'dry' toilet waste in their bins. Composting loos are so much nicer in so many ways to use and manage than either cassette or pump-out toilets, that I'm pretty sure that those who don't like them haven't first hand experience of them. If the CRT embraced the trend towards composting and instructed Biffa to supply occasional bins for the purpose, before too long, the convenience of separating loos, I believe, would soon see them in the majority. Pump out facilities must be a complete pain for the CRT given the frequency with which they are out of order. The maintenance and replacement costs of these facilities must be considerable. There is little doubt that, even after the ban on putting toilet waste in CRT bins comes in next year, having been encouraged to do so, some people will ignore the instruction. At some point the CRT may have to provide a proper facility for disposal to avoid penalties from their waste carrier.

I couldn't agree more, their vlogs are interesting and their presentation engaging and the video quality superb. I don't follow them, but I will watch any vlog of theirs that is of particular interest, especially if they've cruised an area that I intend to visit. I'm not sure why anyone would refer to them in a derogatory way.

I see your point, it is certainly much easier, more pleasant, odour free and a huge amount lighter to put ones 'dry' toilet waste into a bin than lugging a heavy, foul smelling cassette of sloppy toilet waste to an Elsan point. I'm not sure what you mean by "type of newbies", but your doing a great job of promoting composters over cassettes.

I confess that I haven't looked either, but I can see no reason why a broker wouldn't simply accept the offending boat onto his books and declare in his advert the situation concerning the boats RCD status. It's a rare broker that turns away potential business.

It's impossible to know, but given the thousands of followers of YouTube vlogs such as from Foxes Afloat that absolutely rave about the benefits of composting toilets, I'll bet the rise is considerable. Certainly the manufacturer of their rather smart version has gone from producing a single toilet for personal use to a production facility and a waiting list.

It isn't impossible that a broker could refuse to list a boat that had no RCD certificate, but I've no first hand knowledge of it and nobody has offered a real life example on this thread.

I'm sure that's true, but for the sake of a bit of forward thinking and a chat with Biffa, they could have suppressed the huge rise in popularity of composting loos and saved their boat owning customers much inconvenience and wasted money. My concern is, that having been encouraged to go down the composting route by the CRT, some will ignore the new ban on depositing toilet waste in Biffa bins next year when it comes into force.

It can't be an offence to own a boat that has no RCD certificate, because most boats don't have them. Some because of their age and others because they were home built and therefore exempt. Enjoy your boat without fear of a knock on the door. A boat builder however may get into trouble for not self certifying their product where they are required to.

Then the CRT are guilty of encouraging people to avail themselves of the services of another company without checking that the other company was happy with the arrangement first. The CRT are without doubt at least partly responsible for the increase in the proportion of separating loos on the cut.

We've sold our barge now, but our 20 litre container only needed swapping for an empty one every couple of months, but I suspect that the proprietary 'composting' toilets have much smaller receptacles. It does seem a shame that having praised the use of composting loos just a few years ago and encouraged their users to deposit their contents double bagged into their bins, the CRT have changed their minds. I can see why, but it is tough on those who have invested in new equipment and remodelled their heads believing it was with the blessing of the CRT.

I wouldn't argue that perhaps even most composted/dessicated toilet waste is binned, because for years that was the instruction, but why go to the effort of emptying fresh waste frequently when it's only necessary to do so every couple of months, by which time it's largely dried out and a fraction of the fresh volume and weight?

Such a reply simply shows that the author has no first hand experience of any sort of separating/composting toilet. I say that, because the biggest advantage of either system is the infrequency of emptying, so why would one frequently empty fresh toilet waste when it is much easier to only do so every couple of months, giving it plenty of time to reduce its volume and weight by evaporation and maybe a little composting as well.

Don't you think that the CRT would prefer you to have a flushing pump-out toilet which blocks at the least convenient moments and then store many hundreds of litres of slurry inside your boat, taking up a great deal of valuable storage space? Instead of providing a small bin for dessicated human waste, perhaps the CRT would prefer to excavate and install huge slurry tanks, expensive and less than reliable vacuum pumps and associated housings and power supplies etc. to deal with your pump-out needs. Instead of having to dispose of human waste that is dessicated to a fraction of its original weight and volume, maybe they'd prefer you to actually increase the volume and weight of your toilet waste by perhaps 600% by adding valuable drinking water to it so that they can have it carted across the countryside in huge, polluting tankers. Is it possible that, if composting/dessicating toilets had come first, that both boat owners and the CRT would be horrified if someone were to suggest pump-outs as an alternative?

Imagine for a moment that boats had no toilets and the CRT and marinas had no provision for disposing of toilet waste. Tomorrow, boats could choose what toilet to install and the CRT could choose what toilet waste disposal service to provide. Given the options now available with their pros and cons, what would boaters choose and what would the CRT/marinas like them to choose to minimise the cost of disposal infrastructure and disposal of the waste?

Or self build or finish a sail away and enjoy a perfectly legal exemption!

The change, as far as the buyer of a sailaway is concerned is unimportant, as the person who buys and completes the boat still can't sell it for 5 years, the same as before and still doesn't have to complete to RCD standards, same as before. I think we've established that even if there is a broker (maybe) out there who won't accept boats without RCDs onto his books, there are many who will. We also know for certain that traditional brokers charge a great deal and there services are unnecessary given the ease with which one can advertise and sell using internet only brokerages. Given that the inland boat buying public don't seem to know or care much about RCDs and professional builders of completed narrowboats self-certify anyway and the system is not policed to any extent and insurance companies, who, if anyone should care it's them, don't, I would be very happy to self build again and once again forget about obtaining an RCD. Not having an RCD neither made my barge difficult to sell or reduced it's resale value. If there is a legal exemption, then an exempt boat is not illegal as implied, so why would a broker turn away business, when all he or she has to do is to state clearly that no RCD is present in the boats sales particulars?

This is an extract that appears to highlight the RCD exception for sailaways as of 2017. It seems to contradict the above post. New Regulations January 2017 As of 18th January 2017 canal boat builders will not be able to issue Annex lll(a) Declaration of Conformities for part-completed craft. A narrow boat sailaway must be sold CE marked with a full DofC. Canal boat shells sold to a professional boat builder for completion have to carry an Annex lll DofC. Further details of the changes can be found in the following section. Exceptions An eligible boat can only be exempt from the RCD requirements if its classed as a ‘home build’. This is a hull or sailaway that is completed by an individual who then keeps it for their private use for a minimum of 5 years (from when the boat is first used on the water). However, the narrowboat would still require a BSS certificate.

As I mentioned, an 800w PSW Sterling inverter works reliably and has done so for me for the last 4 years. I converted a highly insulated LEC tabletop freezer which fits with room to spare into the hole once occupied by a 3 way fridge and it's enhanced insulation makes it incredibly efficient. I just used a cheap eBay 12v thermostat via a relay to turn on the freezer's dedicated inverter at 6 degrees and off again at 3 degrees. Obviously you can set the temperature and hysteresis to whatever you want.

You are correct that the surge of current needed to start a 240v fridge's compressor is much higher than the rated current. I tried a 350w Victron inverter and that wasn't man enough. I found that the 'smallest' PSW inverter that I could get away with was an 800w Sterling unit. The bigger the inverter the more quiescent energy it wastes when demand is low or zero, so unless your 3kw inverter is on 24 hours a day anyway, it may be worth having a dedicated inverter that is just big enough (800w) and even better, only have it power up when the fridge requires cooling.

Half decent boats are in such short supply compared to demand that any buyer knows that if they refuse to buy what might be their dream boat just because of the lack of a certificate about which few people care, someone else will snap it up from under them.

Traditional brokers use the same internet sites that are available to private sellers, so there is no need to use their services. From recent first hand experience of selling my £160k barge, nobody even asked about RCDs, let alone the other paperwork mentioned above. They either didn't know about it or didn't care about it. When I last year sold my cottage, I advised all the potential buyers at their viewings that I had no HETAS certificate for the multifuel stove and no FENSA certificate for the windows, but that didn't stop me from getting five offers. I bought the cottage 2 years previously and the absence of certificates didn't put me off either. It would seem that if someone falls in love with a boat (or a house), they just don't worry about certificates.

I've navigated the Nene on three occasions and moorings can be a struggle to find, with banks being private or overgrown. I just find a stretch that is wide enough, pull over towards the side, drop a plough anchor over the bow, drop back with the current by a distance equivalent to about 5 or 6 times the depth of water until the anchor grabs, then drop a mud weight over the stern to stop the boat from swinging out. I've also done this on the non-tidal Thames and saved a fortune in mooring fees. One can pick the nicest spots and feel totally safe from troublesome youths on the bank. Perfect!

I've bought and sold 6 boats over the years and never sold through a traditional broker. Internet brokers have no such requirements and most buyers seem to have little knowledge of the regulations. Of the dozens of enquiries I had for my barge, nobody raised the subject of RCD at all.