Captain Pegg

I suspect so judging by the terminology applied to this forum. But at the end of the day you can't blame an entire forum for one imbecile. JP

They could just be reacting with stuff in the water. Or maybe they have been working to protect the hull and the boat has just been blacked. It's still only a local effect though. You would need lots of them all over the hull to give full protection. JP

Maybe both of us. Should have thought more about the name in the first place!

I don't think "she" was taking about boats. On reflection I will stick with my initial assumption regarding his/her gender. Just another joker.

Oops. Sorry Big Tom. She's as much woman as Rusty. JP

Given he's called Big Tom and he's planning to go to (or maybe come from) Northampton I assume it's him that is wide girth not the boat. I hope so for his sake. Must admit I was intrigued as to his profile name as it comes up as "Big Tom Wide Girth Wa..." on my screen. JP

I had exactly the same thoughts. There may be an effect of creating a hard pan like can happen around gates in fields of cows when a soil gets flattened down. Just made me wonder if it was really the case that most of the rainfall becomes run-off or whether it's simply that in a storm there is a lot of runoff but even more infiltration. Of course you can see the former but not the latter hence it would be easy to believe there is more runoff. Anyway, I've probably said enough about hull builders and runoff now. JP

I suspect there may be some urban myth in that last statement, although the phenomenon does appear to happen. It's certainly counter to the basic principle of hydrology that infiltration capacity increases as soil moisture decreases. Hard dry ground, especially in the clay soils found in much of the UK, will be full of shrinkage cracks for water to flow into. I suspect the reason for the apparent high levels of run-off is that summer storms caused by convection are often far more intense than rainfall at other times of the year and hence more likely to exceed soil infiltration capacity and lead to surface runoff. Any hydrologists who can confirm one way or another? JP

I think these responses summarise the real issues with anodes. As Tony says they aren't a solution for general protection because they only have local influence. Both posts give good reason why they logically may be advantageous at the fore and aft. To add to that I suspect the level of protection offered by any blacking product owes more to the quality of preparation of the hull prior to application than it does to the product itself. Anything that forms an impermeable barrier between the water and the metal will work. JP

Chances are you will find a 10mm baseplate as constructed. Steel doesn't normally rust anywhere near as quickly as folks generally presume so the measured depth of the basic plate even on an old boat shouldn't significantly differ from as new. By that I mean tenths of millimetres not ones of millimetres. The bottom is protected by a lack of oxygen and the sides by blacking. It is localised pitting caused by chemical attack rather than ambient rusting that is the likely enemy. The baseplate and poorly blacked areas on the sides may be prone to pitting. In truth a hull doesn't need to be any thicker than the normal 10mm bottom and 6mm sides but it isn't a bad thing if it is. Albeit it is harder to achieve a quality weld on thicker plates... JP

David, If you haven't already seen my comment in a later post please note that I do acknowledge I asked the question out of context having not read through the whole thread. Jon

Modern narrowboat hulls are essentially made to the same specification and thickness of steel no matter who builds it. Very old ones used thinner steel as that was the norm of the day. Some builders have thicker base plates but that's a very expensive way of ballasting your boat. There will be variation with the quality and control of welding but who on here is properly qualified to comment and even if they are do they have experience in the products of these manufacturers or are they able to judge from their armchair? Get a surveyor to make that judgment for you. A lot of the 'quality' debate is a judgment on the style and detailing of the hull. A better looking hull is more difficult and therefore more expensive to cut and weld. That puts up the sale price and therefore the resale value hence the help in knowing the builder in attempting to value a boat. There are some short cuts a fabricator can take to avoid some of the more difficult details and therefore lower the price. These can affect handling or possibly make the boat more likely to wedge itself on the proverbial shopping trolley. However they won't critically affect it's basic ability to do the job you need it to do; which is to float. It is condition alone that will determine that. The older the boat the more the balance between provenance and condition swings toward the latter. The other day your thread got sidetracked by a spat between a poster who appeared to have experience of buying shells from a variety of builders and one who had experience of their gas fittings. You seem to have sided with the opinion of the latter when you may have been better advised to privately seek the knowledge of the former. Folks that buy Les Allen or CTS boats are generally dyed in the wool narrow boat people. For instance that 70' CTS boat you linked to almost certainly has a traditional back cabin and engine room taking up the rear 15' of the cabin space. It probably isn't a suitable boat for your needs irrespective of its 'quality'. You will find these things out by going and looking when you may find that should you ask about some issue that someone on here tells is you is really important the broker or seller may just look at you like you are mad. JP

Recently as in earlier that very day according to official records. Hence no kids tethered to the cabin top.

It's some coincidence for two of the oldest (quite possibly the oldest two) surviving wooden horse boats but they are most definitely two different boats. I suspect they once met regularly but I doubt they will ever be reunited. You wouldn't have trouble telling them apart though

The picture looks ancient but it must be pretty late on in terms of carrying on the Oxford, 1950s?

I recall they advertise their willingness to build private boats on the outside of the sheds at Alvechurch. Quite why you wouldn't buy one I don't know. Lord knows they must have built hundreds and we all know one indestructible old one. Having read the whole thread through I realise my question to David Schweizer was at cross purposes. JP

It would appear the BCNS have been selective with the information they post on their website. Is there any information from within that you provided you would be willing to divulge on the forum or by PM please? If not perhaps the name of the person to whom it was sent as I can probably contact them directly. Thanks, JP

STOP! Seriously this approach is not going to help you find the right boat and it may stop you buying any boat at all. At £30k there will always be a reason that could be found not to buy a particular boat. You asked about value in your poll and they could all be good value at the right price. Find one that suits your needs first, then set about finding if there is a critical reason why you shouldn't buy it. The shell builder will never be a critical reason. Once you have done that set about securing a reasonable price. JP

Different boat. The boat decaying on the offside at Shrewley along with Mabel is of the same name and they belonged to different members of the same family. There are threads regarding the other Forget Me Not on this forum. JP

If you can provide details of your immediate paternal ancestors - back to your Grandfather should be enough - then if there is a link it shouldn't be too hard to find. PM if you wish.

Next week I am doing my annual week of work crewing Atlas and Malus. Although the basic history of the boats is documented I cannot find any information on the people who worked these boats during their working careers other than during the period where Atlas was used by the 'trainees' during WW2. So does the forum know anything of the people who worked either of these boats (and the boats they were paired with) during their original working careers? Thanks, JP

Neil, In relation to your photos James Grantham's mother Ellen Neal was my great great aunt. Also Sarah Hoare's mother was Sarah Ann Neal who was Ellen's sister and therefore also my great great aunt. There are a number of photographs online relating to the Grantham, Hoare, Neal and Hone families all of whom were boating families and all had addresses in Factory Street, Banbury and were inter-married. I think at various times you may even find the house numbers swapping between the family names. It does give me cause to wonder if they were all permanently resident or simply used a family land based address while living and working on board their boats. I will PM you. From the info above you must be my third or fourth cousin, maybe removed a generation or so? JP ETA - one for the boat historians but wasn't Neil's ancestor John George 'Jack' Grantham the owner of the horse boat Forget Me Not slowly rotting away above Shrewley Tunnel?

I generally assume a boat listed as built by ABC or Alvechurch was built at Alvechurch although this one doesn't look typical of their 'home' fleet and I know they have (had) associations with other yards and builders. Do you have reason to suspect it was built at Hilperton? JP