canals are us?

Hi, thanks for the replies. I would definately want a survey and can see the problem if the welder doesn't fully weld the new panel on so getting water behind and subsequently rusting where it isn't seen. I think this is where a good survey helps I would way prefer the more expensive option of cutting out and welding in new sheet as the first option is a bit of a cheat. A plated boat wouldn't put me off so long as the work was fully welded and to a good standard. James

It looks like I may only have a budget of around £15,000 to buy a livaboard narrowboat. On my searches online I see quite a few older boats that have overplated hulls. Is this a problem or can it lead to problems? What do you look for to see that the plating job is to a good standard? What are your views on overplating? I quite like the space of this boat and would budget 4-5,000 on a kitchen,saloon and bathroom refit/redecoration. This work I would do myself. My link As my budget may only be 15,000 what sort of price should I offer on a £15,000 asking price? I would be having a survey, I think it's a must. I have to sell our house first and am only looking from abroad online at the moment to see whats out there and asking prices. How do you know if the boat is worth what your paying? How do brokers value a boat? When we do sell I'm going to look at as many as possible Many Thanks. James

How very exciting I bet you were nervous of them dropping it Enjoy your new boat What make is it? Have fun. James

If i was fitting out a new boat I would fit ducts in pvc tubes for all the wiring and spare ducts for other things and sprayfoam them in behind. At least then if you need to modify the wiring and run new wires you can pull them through. James

Personally if it was me as I knew my boat inside and out I would keep it. You would be gutted if you didn't like your new job after a short time and returned, and of regretted selling and have the hassle of buying another. There would also be the heartake of probably seeing your boat with the new owner. I have no narrowboat yet but hope to sometime this year . I have a 23 year old volvo 240 GLT estate that I really feel sentimental about. I have had it 3 years and it's been superb and now on 183,000miles My vote keep your boat

Morso squirrel seem popular but on my boat it will be a woodwarm fireview 4.5kw. You may like the woodwarm fireview 6kw.Both come with boiler options. My link See some burning. My link If on a tight budget you could buy a villager either puffin or chelsea etc. My link Clearview pioneer 400/solution. My link A good review of stoves by owners is. My link Woodwarm and clearview are also good makes as well as morso. You really need to know what size boiler you need to heat all or most of the present rads. If you put the sizes up and if singles or doubles I could give you a rough idea. If you could also state which ones are in the same room as the new stove will be, this would help. James.

So it looks like I may need to add rads. This is fine and I will have them from the stove. My main reason for choosing the woodwarm is they have a great reputation, keep the glass clean. I prefer steel stoves as you can get them blasting away and not worry as much that you could crack a cast iron stove. I find having to clean our villager glass a pain. I definately think it's best to keep the stove ticking over 24/7 to limit condensation. see whatstove for all stove reviews. My link Stove Fan

Hi, Very interesting. I think my main reasons for wanting to use solid fuel are: The welcoming view of a real fire , cost factor and the easy availability of fuel. Ie most places sell coal. We run our heating here in our 2 bed detatched, rural bungalow, entirely with a multifuel boiler stove and it's a good way to heat providing you are either not working or are commited and don't mind getting back to light the fire. Our stove itself starts producing a good heat after 10 minutes and as our house has reasonable insulation never gets very cold. I think the stove choice is paramount, better to pay more and get good control/quality. With our villager with the fuel you can buy here none of them last long enough so it wont stay in overnight even with a damper. About 4 hours on 3 softwood logs. I think with the right sort of UK smokeless it would. The smokless here is rubbish. I would hopefully be working about 3-4 days a week and would have mains electric hookup so don't mind using an oil filled rad until I get the stove going. I'll fit a stove and see how it goes, I can always fit some rads from it. I certainly wouldn't want things going damp due to lack of heating. I think a backup is good for spring/autum when its not really cold enought to light the fire. I don't really feel the cold. I'm more leaning towards a morco type water heater than using a calorifier. Although the calorifier can be heated from the stove. The gas boiler is better in my opinion as not having to wait for hot water only, heating what you use and if the gas water heater is between galley and bathroom minimum heat loss from pipework. Whats your thoughts? I would be residential in a marina mostly. Woodwarm stoves.My link Nice James.

I find it very surprising that you could end up buying a stolen boat. Do you register your name and details with BW as this would be a good extra check to ensure they are entitled to sell? 25,000 is my budget and I wouldn't want to lose it. How do you check if a boat has any finance remaining? I wouldn't think a boat of my price would but you never know. I think certainly the boat name/owner details and preferably a stamped chassis number should be the minimum registered with BW. James

Hi thanks everyone I think what I will do is fit a stove anyway and see how I get on. It would be the woodwarm, but my worry was my rear bedroom being cold. I wouldn't install gas/diesel heating on the boat if it didn't have it already, just too expensive to install to use occasionaly. Thinking oil filled rad for occasional use. My prefered stove location is not in the corner by the steps in the salon but the stove to be between the salon and galley kitchen. I would like an L shape kitchen with stove opposite. I would like the stove freestanding on the corridor side of the boat that way if I want to add rads I can by gravity. Possibly leaving the bedroom door open and using an ecofan would be enough though? Either way I dont mind plumbing in the 2 rads as I'm a plumber anyway!! The villager heron is the older model of the puffin. We have a villager berkley integral boiler stove only heating all of our house and it does the job although the glass can get dirty which I find irritating. I'm going to try woodwarm next. We have had 3 villagers and found they give reasonable performance but not totally airtight/controllable. The damper helps. James

Would I need central heating on a 45-50ft narrowboat in the winter or would a stove heat it enough without radiators? I would install http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwfireview.ashx would this be sufficient on it's own without radiators? It would be a liveaboard. What do you have? I love a fire going and like the idea of low running costs. This stove costs more than cheaper alternatives at £715. James

I'm hopefully going to buy a narrowboat this year to liveaboard . One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the buying process. If you buy from a broker what is the procedure? Or a private sale? Can you check with an authority that the boat isn't stolen? Does a boat have a stamped chassis number like a car? As you can see a few questions. Thanks James.

I'm going to hopefully buy a narrowboat and live on it this year and simply disgusted at the nature of your theft I say to the person who nicked them if you want something in life then work for it and have pride in your achievement. I would be seriously angry!! Hope this person is caught!! I think when I buy my boat I'll have to evaluate security. It's such a shame to have to do this for a small number who are intent on thieving. James

Gravity water will only rise if it can complete a circuit to rise too. The loop is broken by the tank. I don't think it could boil over as the hot water has circulation through the rads. Single feed and vent pipes are an old design or used where pumps have been placed in the wrong location as a way to cure pumping over. Anyway the drawing wasn't all my layout so I would place the cold feed and expansion tank differently. I'll let the plumber fitting the stove decide as it's him who has got to be satisfied and I feel I'm now taking this off topic.

Yes the rads would need to be left permanently on with a solid fuel stove or at least one large double rad plumbed permanently on ie lockshield valves. In my gravity system layout above there is no pump used so no chance of pumping over. I personally would only light the stove when I wanted heat. I would just use the calorifiers immersion etc when the stove isn't lit. Fudd, what I would do is still fit a small single gravity radiator near the stove and the 12 volt pump should effectively cool the gravity rad anyway and send the heat to the other radiator. My gravity rad on our solid fuel boiler gets very hot until the pipe thermostat triggers the pump and then the gravity rad only gets luke warm. Your plumber will advice if having the 12 volt pump is adequate and if you need a gravity rad. My only worry is if you had battery/controller problems. I was thinking something like this thats pumped by 12 volt but still is open vented with gravity single radiator. I dont know if you want the stove to heat the rads in combination with another boiler? Your plumber will work this out.

On my boat I would have gravity circulation where possible on everything. Why run a pump if not required. The original poster has 2 rads but pumped. This is not how I would do mine. The gravity rads would dissipate the heat from the boiler when the cytrol valve closes. The rads would need to be sized to at least match the boiler output.

The problem with this setup is your relying on mains power for the pump to dissipate the heat from the boiler to rads unless you have plumbed in a 12 volt pump as well. I would fit this 12 volt pump in addition to the mains powered pump too for safety so the water in the boiler can be pumped to the rads to dissipate the heat in the event of mains failiure.

See my earlier written post before and new diagram. = perfectly safe They are not dangerous if fitted how I said and to the diagram and are common to fit on old or new heating systems!! The rads that are on gravity circulation would dissipate the heat produced by the stove should the calorifier reach its set temperature by the cytrol valve and close. I'm a fully qualified plumber and gas fitter so should know!!

quote name='ditchcrawler' timestamp='1333469017' post='849503'] So you are suggesting that when the stove overheats so much that it risks boiling the contents of the calorifier which is heated by just a copper coil that you stop the water circulating through the boiler in the stove? Yes and No!!! I suggested the cytrol valve fitted on the return of the calorifier will cut the hot water flow from the stoves flow pipework near the calorifier thus controlling the heated water through the coil. If you close off the flow or return near the calorifier you stop it being heated. The water would still circulate as normal through the stoves boiler and rads as the pipework to the calorifier is a seperate/independant run of pipework. This cytrol valve simply maintains the water temperature through the calorifiers coil at a pre set max of 60oc and shuts the hot water flow from the stove to the calorifier if it gets hotter than this. In theory yes if the stove overheated then yes the coil could boil the water inside the calorifier especially if the calorifier was a small low volume one or the water inside was hot enough anyway. Ie heated by immersion etc. See the modified diagram.

I can see where the plumber is coming from as the water inside the unvented cylinder could possibly boil and be a potential risk as there is no temperature control to the heating pipes from the stove to the calorifier to maintain a safe temperature. It shouldnt happen as I'm sure the calorifier has a safety valve to discharge the boiling water in the event of overheat. To control the temperature of the water from the stove to the calorifier fit a cytrol valve just after the return coil from the calorifier, this would prevent the stove boiling the water in the calorifier as it cuts the circulation flow off etc. http://www.uk-plumbing.com/acl-drayton-invensys-cyltrol-valve-1bsp-straight-p-1378.html http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drayton-Cyltrol-Valve-1-BSP-Straight-MK-3-/160705347885 Stove Fan

Hi, thanks everyone . When the house is sold I will have a trip to the UK and have a good look at all the different lengths and types to see what would suit me. I have to say I like the traditional stern. The cruiser stern is quite nice though but would I use the outside space as surely I could sit/use the canalside with a small table and 2 chairs. I think interior space would be more beneficial, especially an engine roomed boat to store all the stuff associated with canal living. I like the T&G panelling in either pine or oak in the salon. The main thing I want to create is a light and airy open plan living/kitchen. I like the living room at the front with fully glazed end, with galley, bathroom, and bedroom. I really fancy laying a wood floor throughout. I don't mind refitting the kitchen/bathroom. I'm very good at DIY and am a plumber by trade. I would mostly use a solid fuel stove (probably villager puffin) for heating and if really needed fit a back boiler to heat 2 rads and possibly a calorifier. We have a villager berkley boiler stove here for all our heating/hot water and it's great. James

Hi, thanks everyone When you take into the lost space front and back, then I think I would find it cramped!! As you say best to buy something bigger now, than have to sell later, and all the hassle and expense of selling and re buying costs. It's a no brainer I'm going to look at a 45ft boat as a minimum but not over 50ft. What would the living space be on a 45feet boat? would it be 45-12=33ft of living space? Do some boats have less outside deck space than others? Many thanks. James

Hi, thanks everyone, some great information. Time to start looking . I'm going to look at those links I'm a single 33 year old so think I should find 35ft ok, but as you say I have never stepped on a narrowboat, so might think too small The main reasons for me wanting one around 35foot is the cheaper maintenance costs and mooring/ licence fees. I also think being a smaller boat they may find me room in a residential mooring I can hope! I think the best thing to do, as you say, is to read up as much as possible, and then when the house is sold, view as many as possible. This would have to be a trip over to the UK. It's very awkward to organise a move and at the same time find something to live in and then search I know what you mean with things not as described!! We went on an 8 hour round trip looking at a caravan dealers. Spoke on the phone to him and he said it's immaculate, you won't be dissapointed!! Got there only to find it very scruffy/damp and broken windows. It wanted scrapping!! We promised ourselves afterwards to only travel 90 minutes away. We eventually found a very clean 1990 abi rallyman 2 berth caravan in very clean/tidy condition for the sum of 1000 euros. He delivered it as we don't have a towbar. As soon as we viewed it we thought this is the one !! Sometimes they just click Many thanks . Off to look at the marinas and dealers James.

Hi everyone I have been reading up on these forums and others and am thinking of buying a narrow boat to live on in a residential mooring. I would like to be moored up to 90 minutes away from Birmingham by car! We are hopefully selling our house and returning to the UK. Me and my Grandparents. I want to buy a narroboat and my Grandparents want to buy a flat or house depending on what we get from the sale of our house. My Grandparents said they may buy a narrowboat instead!! Can anyone recommend any residential marinas preferebaly to the west of Birmingham or non residential who don't mind you staying permanently so long as your discreet? I like being in a rural setting. I did find a marina who didn't mind you staying and it was £1,500 a year, but to the east. I would prefer a formal residential marina though!! Is there any you wouldn't recommend? Pm me. Finally I hope to be able to buy a narrowboat this year if the house sells. Is there any makers of narrowboats that I should avoid? Likewise with boat engines? I will have a budget of up to £25,000 and like the fixed rear bed, bathroom, galley, lounge. I think my ideal boat length would be 35/6 feet. I like this layout and its the interior style I like. My link Are liverpool boats a cheaper brand? I would prefer to buy from a dealer and have it surveyed. Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Midlands area? but willing to travel to a dealer with a good reputation. Many thanks. James.

Hi, thanks everyone for their valuable input . I think the best thing for me would be to stay in a marina for at least the first 6 months to get used to everything. Possibly even staying permanently in a marina, but just going cruising as and when. I have been looking at all the links and marinas with waste, water, electricity facilities etc seem to quote/charge around £0.80 per foot after a fixed term depending on area? Are there differences to marinas with facilities and residential marinas? Can you stay at any marina or has it got to say residential? I have budgeted £60 a week for boat basics and marina fees. Would 1000-1500 cover marina fees per year? I ideally would like to be out of Birmingham towards the Cotswolds. Do you have to pay Council Tax in a marina? The main reason for choosing a marina is that I could work and travel in that area. I am a very handy person and can do most building and property repair work, ideally self employed. Plumbing is my main activity. I think if I can earn just enough to cover my outgoings and could earn £150 a week I think I could have a basic life. I personaly think I would find CC and trying to work would be quite hard. I was reading up on the waterways licence and it says to get a licence you need a mooring? Is this true? I notice on some boat adverts it says the expiry of a BW licence. Is the time remaining transferable and included in the sale of the boat? Is it exactly like buying a car? Tax/mot. Anyone recommend any marinas in the Cotswolds, in my budget? I'm not a lavish person and don't have any vices and like the quiet country life. Many Thanks. James .