Waterways Related Petitions on the No. 10 (PM) Site

[scoobydog]

Here are the Waterways Related Petitions currently on the Leisure and Culture Section...

(http://petitions.pm.gov.uk)

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Canoeists/

 

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to pass legislation to give canoeists and all other users of un-powered craft the free right to navigate all rivers and canals in England and Wales (similar to the right already enjoyed by cyclists to use bridleways, cycle tracks and roads).

 

Access to rivers in England and Wales for canoeists and other users of un-powered craft is severely restricted, and is probably more limited than for any other region in the World.

On only a very few rivers (e.g. parts of the Severn and Wye) is there a right of free navigation for canoeists. River navigations are available to un-powered craft, but only by the purchase of a licence.

The majority of rivers are either only available by making an advanced booking and by paying a fee to use them during restricted periods in the Winter season (e.g. the River Usk), or have no access permitted at all (e.g. the River Test).

Canoes are a form of sustainable transport, and can be used by almost all age groups. They also provide a mechanism for exercise, sport, recreation, and the study of wildlife. Access to waterways was specifically omitted from Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2002. This omission now needs to be urgently addressed.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Windermere10mph/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to remove the 10mph speed limit on Lake Windermere.

 

Please remove the 10 mph speed limit on Lake Windermere. Since the introduction in March 2005 lake users have no where to go to water ski. Lots of families are losing out on enjoying the fun. All the local businesses are losing out and even the Lake District National park is now having to review funding options for the lake due to the restriction

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Boat-Diesel-Tax/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Reverse the decision to stop the sale of "red" diesel for pleasure craft.

 

Pleasure craft have always been allowed to buy "red" diesel i.e. fuel dyed for identification with a lower tax status than DERV (Diesel Engined Road Vehicles). This fuel is available for off-road,agricultural and industrial uses. Canal boats and pleasure craft are non-road users of diesel fuel, often operate on a limited budget, and should not be subjected to this inappropriate taxation.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/BroadsBill/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Oppose the Broads Authority Private Bill.

 

The Broads Authority Private Bill is being promoted as a 'safety' bill, yet it promotes wakeboarding, officially rated as being a hazard. It also extends powers to further restrict or prevent navigation. In both cases this directly effects my safety and my ability to freely navigate the tidal rivers of the Broads. It must be opposed.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/LowBoatFuelTax/

Now that the EU has refused the extension of derogation of Fuel Tax for Pleasurecraft, there is no justification for setting the tax at the same level as at Filling Stations. Boats obviously do not use roads, thus we should not be charged for their upkeep.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/HUCKNALLANGLERS/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to REPEAL THE CLOSED SEASON FOR ANGLING ON ALL INLAND WATERWAYS EXCLUDING SSSI's.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/saveourships/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Take immediate steps to halt the decline of the national heritage fleet.

Whilst much money is available for the preservation and conservation of old buildings and 'monuments' there is none available for the maintenance of the extensive and diverse UK heritage fleet of traditional vessels. Many of these vessels are run by charities or voluntary organisations in order to provide water based activities for young people (of all abilities). Please take action now to halt this decline thus ensuring that future generations get to enjoy these irreplaceable vessels.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/diesel/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to state to the European Union that the UK as a sovereign state has the right to set it's own taxation levels. Then to continue the derogation on Marine diesel for leisure use.

 

The european union has decided despite vigrous argument by many interested parties in the UK to force the UK to set tax's at a level consistant with the rest of europe. I believe this is a further undermining of UK independence which will seriously damage the UK marine industry. This industry is vital for jobs and export income to the UK.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/waterways-museum/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to take urgent action to provide new funding for the National Waterways Musuem at Gloucester Docks, Ellesmere Port and Stoke Bruerne.

 

The National Waterways Museum holds the internationally important inland waterways collection.

New funding would enable the Museum to offer free entry for all at each of its three sites.

Free entry is vital for the survival of the National Waterways Museum.

Free entry would help the Museum to expand its education programme, conserve the collection, improve access and support 140 jobs in the local economy.

With free entry the Museum will be able to thrive, increase visitor numbers and generate new income essential for its long-term sustainability.

 

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licencedodgers/

 

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Ensure that the British Waterways Board use all its powers to pursue the owners of the large amount of unlicensed boats that are on the waterways they administer and thereby recover the thousands of pounds of revenue that are being lost each year.

 

"British Waterways", the body that administers the bulk of Britain’s inland waterways (canals and river navigations), have recently been subject to a cut in grant aid by DEFRA. This cut has prompted job cuts, cuts in maintenance of the waterways, and the promise of large increases in the fees paid by boaters to have their boats on the waterways.

There are a large amount of boats that escape payment, and it appears that little has been done to ensure that all boats are "Licensed".

On average, most boats cost about £900 - £1000 per year to Licence. That is a large amount of revenue that is lost EACH YEAR!

British Waterways have powers that include the removal from their waters of unlicensed boats, but there are areas where boats have been moored for many years, with no licence, or other payment being made, with no action by BW.

British Waterways should ensure all boats are licensed BEFORE forcing the boaters that pay their way to pay large increases.

 

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No2Canoes/

 

Canoeists and un-powered craft users are seeking the right to roam on English and Welsh rivers. This is without consultation with landowners. This, in our view, will be detrimental to river systems and will spoil the enjoyment of the rivers for anglers. Angling clubs already pay rent to landowners for using the rivers as well as anglers paying national rod license fees. The canoeists want the right to spoil our enjoyment for free!

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/motorboats/

 

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to make people who buy motor or speed boats take a basic course.

 

there are many accidents, mostly serious, caused by people who buy pleasure boats of one kind or another, new or second hand, who do not know water safety whether it means "rules of the road" or the carrying and using of safety equipment such as life jackets,flares and radios. These people cause accidents by reckless driving and are a danger to themselves as well as other water users especially in the coastal waters. They also cost the RNLI many thousands of pounds every year to rescue all involved. Make people take courses, have certificates or licences as well as insurance and carry them at all times as if they were on a road in a car. It is often more dangerous to have an accident in the sea than on a road as not only can they have serious injuries or drown but they can suffer from hypothermia if in the water for as little as 30mins, more often a combination of 2 or more noted.

 

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/water-craft/

 

 

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Reverse decision that personal water craft do not have to obey rules of the sea.

A lot of people who have one of these are sensible users as they are serious about their sport. But a also there are some of people who have a personal water craft do not obey even the minimal of rules like water speed and cause accidents by reckless driving and are a danger to themselves as well as other water users especially in the coastal waters. They also cost the RNLI many thousands of pounds every year to rescue all involved. Make people take courses, have certificates or licences as well as insurance and carry them at all times as if they were on a road in a car. It is often more dangerous to have an accident in the sea than on a road as not only can they have serious injuries or drown but they can suffer from hypothermia if in the water for as little as 30mins, more often a combination of 2 or more noted.

Edited March 16, 2007 by scoobydog

[carlt]

.

[fuzzyduck]

I have a question.

 

If every license evader was removed from the waterways (or forced to pay), do you think it will make the slightest bit of difference to the amount that you'll end up paying?

 

If so, then fine.

 

If not, to be honest, why bother, just revel in the fact that you have a license, and look firmly down on those that don't

 

or be like me, and very very firmly refuse to care.

Edited March 14, 2007 by fuzzyduck

[carlt]

On average, most boats cost about £900 - £1000 per year to Licence. That is a large amount of revenue that is lost EACH YEAR!

My boats are 72' long. I don't pay '£900 - £1000' for my licences. You can't even get your facts right you're so busy in other folks business.

[fuzzyduck]

That's only because you don't need a license for driftwood.

 

My yearly license was about a 3rd of the lowest figure posted.

 

Edited to say, lets not go on the attack, the poster hasn't been a member for very long, and I really would like a chance to firmly not give a hoot who pays their license, and who doesn't, yet again, in public.

 

Be nice Carl!

Edited March 14, 2007 by fuzzyduck

[John Orentas]

If someone is organising a lynch mob, I'll join in with that. Come to think of it a canal boat is ideal, rope tied to a bridge, miscreant stood on the roof, drive the boat away.

Edited March 14, 2007 by John Orentas

[NB Alnwick]

We all own the canals - don't we?

 

So we all must have a vested interest . . .

[fender]

We all own the canals - don't we?

 

So we all must have a vested interest . . .

 

 

I'd like a petition against BW staff, starting with those who dont pay their car insurance!

 

And how about one against unlicenced BW boats - I can give you the details of one or two!!

Edited March 14, 2007 by fender

[fuzzyduck]

We all own the canals - don't we?

 

whatever gave you that idea?

 

you're a stakeholder, not a shareholder. you can be damn sure when BW is privitised, they won't be giving you any shares.

[carlt]

Owing to the nature of my boats and pasttime (rescuing boats from BW's clutches, getting them legal and passing them on) I am aware of the pressures put on unlicensed boatowners. BW know who the offenders are and use the powers they have at their disposal to persuade them to pay up or get off the water.

 

This is all very well when it is an unoccupied boat but, when it is someone's home, article 8 of the human rights act applies. BW cannot just make someone homeless so they have to pursue the matter through the civil courts. This takes time and can be a pretty inhuman thing to do when the local authority isn't interested. Housing people, who can't afford to pay, comes out of the public purse, whatever the type of home. Kicking someone off the cut, who is paying nothing, but claiming nothing; then putting them in council accommodation is a bigger drain on the public purse than leaving them on the cut.

 

This is what BW try to deal with (maybe they should try and fight for a more consistent approach to Housing Benefit) but they are making headway.

 

Net twitchers don't help in any way, shape or form.

 

I'd like a petition against BW staff, starting with those who dont pay their car insurance!

 

And how about one against unlicenced BW boats - I can give you the details of one or two!!

I was diving in the BW skip one day looking for drawing paper for a friends son. I pulled out a load of copies of final reminders for licence fees. From BW, to BW for the whole midlands fleet! Three letters, one for every boat, one for the licensing depts records and, evidently, one for the paper skip. The letter was threatening section 8 action!

 

Out of the same skip I found notes that indicated the number of 'problem' boats was around 200. This is an insignificant amount compared to the number of Car Tax, income tax, council tax, cap gains tax, tv tax (I've got a tv licence. How many other liveaboards do?), etc..etc..ad nauseum dodgers out there.

Edited March 14, 2007 by carlt

[carlt]

Two signatures and the deadline's gone. Less net twitching than I thought.

[Guest st170dw]

There are those who won't pay and those who can't.

 

The former include those who are able to exploit legal loopholes in the laws of this country by employing clever accountants.

 

The latter include people whose annual income is the same as a days charges for the accountant.

 

In my opinion there needs to be some lattitude for those who can't pay just as there is for those who won't.

 

I am a pay anyway boater!

[scoobydog]

Well......

 

I WAS going to put up all the waterways related petitions, but last night I ran out of time to do any but that one.

 

I hope you all have a well paid job, or independant means.

 

I am on the minimum wage, and personally pay around 1000 pounds per annum for boat licence and moorings(Offside/EOG whatever they are calling it this time!) to bw, and almost another 700-800 pounds to the landowner.

 

Any BIG increase WILL make it hard to pay for my HOME!

 

(YES, I May Well be better off NOT Working....)

 

I thought.......welll to the skip with it then...

 

DELETE this if you like!

 

(Carl...I used to have a lot of friends who had old wooden boats....I used to do stuff with the WCCT! Just because you have "firewood" boats, don't think that everybody has a downer on you! Thomas Clayton and Barlows, yes? At least some people know a motor from a butty!)

[carlt]

(Carl...I used to have a lot of friends who had old wooden boats....I used to do stuff with the WCCT! Just because you have "firewood" boats, don't think that everybody has a downer on you! Thomas Clayton and Barlows, yes? At least some people know a motor from a butty!)

 

I don't think anyone's 'got a downer on me'. I think I'm a reasonably popular person, both on the cut and on this forum. My views have not changed since I have had metal, grp or wooden boats. I didn't mention the material my boats are made of (and describing them as 'firewood boats', whilst a little petty, doesn't really bother me) in this post, other than to explain why I have a great deal of contact with BW enforcement officials, because I think peoples' obsessions with other peoples' affairs is a serious matter and I raise my choice of boat in either lighthearted conversation, or factual.

 

I'm afraid I don't know what the WCCT is but I'm sure it is a worthy body and your contribution is a noble one. That doesn't make your petition any less petty or invasive.

[gaggle]

Edited to say, lets not go on the attack, the poster hasn't been a member for very long, and I really would like a chance to firmly not give a hoot who pays their license, and who doesn't, yet again, in public.

 

Be nice Carl!

 

well seeing as he has not been a member for very long i would like him to know this member thinks he ought to get a life.

if he has nothing better to do than worry about he needs to get out more.

its a pathetic exercise to say the least.

i can not begin to fathom what he thinks he is up to.

[fuzzyduck]

well seeing as he has not been a member for very long i would like him to know this member thinks he ought to get a life.

 

Group: Members

Posts: 6

Joined: 23-February 07

Member No.: 3,135

Gender: Female

 

My guess would be read too much Narrowboatworld, or the Daily Fail.

 

you can see the thinking "damn costs are going up, again, and again, and again. Ohhhh, hold on a minute there are some people who don't pay for licences, they get something for free which I have to pay for"

 

and lets face it, it doesn't help when ars**les like Victor pump the world full of NIMBY claptrap. it's almost a classic divide and rule situation, get those that are struggling to hate those that have given up, and not to hate those that put them in the situation in the first place. It's like those that moan that civil servants get better pension schemes than they do, but don't burn the director of the company they work for's house down.

 

in extremis I remember someone writing into the free waterways paper (I forget the name), to complain that some people were evading licences by (Shock, horror) mooring in marinas where they weren't required!!!!! Drone!

Edited March 15, 2007 by fuzzyduck

[carlt]

I don't disagree with her that people should pay their licence fee (and for those unable to, the housing benefit system should cover licence fees as well as moorings), but worrying about what other people do with their lives interferes with me getting on with their own. I know that BW enforce as effectively as they can within the constraints of the law. I also know that they do everything they can to persuade people to pay, before resorting to the final act, ie. section 8 and removal of the boat. I disagree with a hell of a lot of how bw run our waterways but I think the way they behave towards non payers is, in the main, fair to all sides. And, considering the small percentage of non paying boats, I bet they pay out more on enforcement than they recover.

[gaggle]

Group: Members

Posts: 6

Joined: 23-February 07

Member No.: 3,135

Gender: Female

 

thought he was going on like an old woman,did not see that he was.

 

anyway i am shooting off to the boat now, should i stay for the weekend or work on st paddy,s day and old ma,s day and make a crust?

Edited March 16, 2007 by gaggle

[scoobydog]

OK...You win.

 

Just a little note of caution...

 

Do Not Assume That I am the Author of all the *&^%$ Petitions, OK?

 

(Carl...BW may well be a bit better at enforcement Up in Oxford. I still remember when they threatened to "demolish" the residential boats in the Hythe Bridge "Arm", after a bit of "hassle" from certain groups. The outcome was "proper" residential moorings. It has now been a while since I was at Oxford, but I still have fond memories, especially of spending time at the boatyards at Jericho, and Wolvercote and Dukes Locks (not forgetting the Dukes Cut Lock!)

 

Unfortunately, around here there are several people who have bought new boats from the proceeds of years of not paying BW anything. This despite the BW Patrol harassing licensed boats.

 

I have no axe to grind against people who get away with not paying (It is aginst BW for apparently allowing this state of affairs); yes I wish I had the “guts” to not pay. Unfortunately for myself, I am AFRAID to go up against the “powers”, so I tend to pay for Travel Tickets, rather than “bunk” the train or whatever, and other things where there is a risk of losing my property or my liberty.

 

I wish you well with your endeavours.)

Edited March 16, 2007 by scoobydog

[carlt]

Here's my thoughts:

 

Here are the Waterways Related Petitions currently on the Leisure and Culture Section...

(http://petitions.pm.gov.uk)

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Canoeists/

 

Charge the cyclists as well as the canoeist. Your canoe licence is £31. Why even try to dodge that?

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Windermere10mph/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to remove the 10mph speed limit on Lake Windermere.

 

From what I hear Windermere is a lovely place to potter now the speed merchants have gone.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Boat-Diesel-Tax/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Reverse the decision to stop the sale of "red" diesel for pleasure craft.

 

I vote bring on white diesel, reduce the licence fee to match the road tax (including the historic exemption), and then we can be charged on usage rather than the exhorbitant licence fees we've got now.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/BroadsBill/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Oppose the Broads Authority Private Bill.

 

I assume you (Scooby) either oppose this petition or the Windermere one. You can't possibly support both. I've signed this one (for what it's worth). There's a big sea out there to do things like wake boarding or waterskiing.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/LowBoatFuelTax/

Now that the EU has refused the extension of derogation of Fuel Tax for Pleasurecraft, there is no justification for setting the tax at the same level as at Filling Stations. Boats obviously do not use roads, thus we should not be charged for their upkeep.

 

repeat petitions surely dilute support?

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/HUCKNALLANGLERS/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to REPEAL THE CLOSED SEASON FOR ANGLING ON ALL INLAND WATERWAYS EXCLUDING SSSI's.

 

Doesn't affect me in the slightest

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/saveourships/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Take immediate steps to halt the decline of the national heritage fleet.

 

We can but dream. With Ellesmere on about weighing-in most of it's boats and waterways turning it's historic buildings into theme bars and flats what are the chances?

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/diesel/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to state to the European Union that the UK as a sovereign state has the right to set it's own taxation levels. Then to continue the derogation on Marine diesel for leisure use.

 

UKIP claptrap. Marine diesel in Europe is cheaper than road diesel it's Mr Brown who wants to charge us the same as road vehicles. Don't blame the EU.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/waterways-museum/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to take urgent action to provide new funding for the National Waterways Musuem at Gloucester Docks, Ellesmere Port and Stoke Bruerne.

 

Only if they are given to someone who Knows how to run a museum (other than into the ground)

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licencedodgers/

 

Covered this one

 

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No2Canoes/

Canoeists and un-powered craft users are seeking the right to roam on English and Welsh rivers. This is without consultation with landowners. This, in our view, will be detrimental to river systems and will spoil the enjoyment of the rivers for anglers. Angling clubs already pay rent to landowners for using the rivers as well as anglers paying national rod license fees. The canoeists want the right to spoil our enjoyment for free!

 

Can't pick holes in this one. Bit strong though.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/motorboats/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to make people who buy motor or speed boats take a basic course.

 

Seems fair enough

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/water-craft/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Reverse decision that personal water craft do not have to obey rules of the sea.

 

Seems fair enough, though I haven't read anywhere that the 'rules of the road' have been chucked out.

[scoobydog]

Hi.

 

I don't actually support/contest any or all the petitions in general. I just looked through the list, and picked out those that were more or less waterway related. (Just a messenger really!) But here are my initial thoughts.....

 

 

Members of the British Canoe Union don't have to have a BW licence...it seems they are all covered by the BCU!

(I think the petition really was aimed at all the rivers that are not official navigations though.)

 

Agree here. Yes, If you want to go fast, there is plenty of sea room, (at sea!) leave the lakes and Broads (and the cut) alone!

 

I can see your point re taxation. Yes, get shot of the licence as such, and run more like the roads. It could even work. Since BW scrapped the Toll system, which meant they only got paid if traffic flowed, they have no incentive to keep the cut in good repair. They get paid if you move or not. (And then they want to charge even more if you move "too much"!) At the moment, BW are an effective monopoly re moorings, but do not seem to be regulated as such? So, this may be why they are raising the mooring fees so much, as a pre-emptive strike to boost their income stream ahead of a "cut" in licence income?

 

Yep...repeat stuff is not good...it seems that they (petioners) have started a new one as the expiry date draws nearer, and the goal posts are moving!

 

Don't get me started on the Waterways Trust! (Theme park, with stuffed and mounted boats anyone?)

 

I know! (addressed by the taxation isue above too!)

 

Have to laugh at the competing Anglers petition...they have a good point though. Why should canoes be able to go up every river? They do enough damage on the cut. (They make more waves than an angry Swan!)

 

I suppose it is just a matter of time before "driving tests" come in. The BW Byelaws already state that every vessel should have at least one member of crew who is competent to handle the vessel...

[carlt]

You see! we agree on more than we disagree on .

 

Welcome to the forum btw. And..you still haven't said what the WCCT is?

[Jason King]

If it encourages more evaders to pay up then that can only be a good thing. It may not affect the amount we pay but there is also a rule and a principle at stake.

 

 

I have a question.

 

If every license evader was removed from the waterways (or forced to pay), do you think it will make the slightest bit of difference to the amount that you'll end up paying?

 

If so, then fine.

 

If not, to be honest, why bother, just revel in the fact that you have a license, and look firmly down on those that don't

 

or be like me, and very very firmly refuse to care.

 

 

I think most petitions are a waste of time, whatever they are for or against. I did sign one of the ones on the list but I don't know why I bothered. It's like the Government's Big Conversation, just a way to let people let off steam without having to actually engage with them.

[scoobydog]

Carl ...WCCT = Wooden Canal Craft Trust. The Wooden Boat Society in other words....

 

JK... I'm well aware of the great scheme...that is, keep everyone busy so they don't notice what the politicians are REALLY doing! The Romans used "Bread, & Circuses"!

Edited March 18, 2007 by scoobydog

[fender]

scoobydog why have you massively altered your orginal thread? Is it to make yourself look something other than you dont want to be percieved as? It began with just the one petition on licence dodgers and now we have all these other petitions.