Rayburn Royal

[Matthew Dowson]

We've recently acquired our first boat, 'Oak Moon', currently at Woodlesford outside Leeds on the Aire & Calder, moving up to Shipley. It's great, but I need some advice on the Rayburn Royal that's installed, coal fuel obviously, now I always thought you toped up the coal at night so it went through, but it just gets unbelievably hot, oven temp goes round to 500F, boiling the water in the heating system and broiling us! After two nights of this I don't know what to to. I've got the air intake in the bottom door wound shut, and the damper that goes into the flue is set to zero. If I just add a little coal in the evening which is what I'll do next time we're on the boat my concern is it'll be out by morning. It's great during the day with doors open. Appreciate words of wisdom.

 

Thanks

 

Matt Dowson

[John Orentas]

There must be air getting in there somehow, somewhere.

[bottle]

Check the doors when shut, they may not be fitting tight,

 

I had the same with a new rayburn fitted in a previous house.

 

The engineer was called, as it was new, his method was to place a piece of news paper (a strip about 1"/ 2.5 cms wide) between the door and the seal (metal to metal) in different places.

 

If the paper slipped out when pulled then that was an air gap if it was not removable that was not.

 

He marked the door where there was not an air gap, these were then filed down.

 

The idea is to make the door seal (metal) match the its opposite seal (metal)

 

This takes a lot of time and must be done judiciously so as not to make matters worse.

 

I think you have two doors, the fire door and the ash door, both will need to be checked.

[nichimyo]

I PM'd you this as a reply to your PM, but since it's a question on the forum, I thought I'd add it here FWIW:

 

Hi Matt

Yeah, if we're not careful we end up roasting too! I'm not "in charge" of the fire, but in other places I've put a layer of damp slack coal over the top after topping up, smooth it and pack it down to make a crust-like layer. This additionally stops a lot of the draught through the fire, and the dampness keeps it all cooler. In the morning the idea is just to break the crust and the fire will go off again in minutes.

When do you riddle through? You could try leaving the ashes in the bottom of the fire basket to act as a further damper to help stop air getting through too much. Then riddle in the morning before topping up.

Each one seems to be different, you just have to go for trial and error with each one, I think.

Cheers

Nichimyo

[Matthew Dowson]

Check the doors when shut, they may not be fitting tight,

 

I had the same with a new rayburn fitted in a previous house.

 

The engineer was called, as it was new, his method was to place a piece of news paper (a strip about 1"/ 2.5 cms wide) between the door and the seal (metal to metal) in different places.

 

If the paper slipped out when pulled then that was an air gap if it was not removable that was not.

 

He marked the door where there was not an air gap, these were then filed down.

 

The idea is to make the door seal (metal) match the its opposite seal (metal)

 

This takes a lot of time and must be done judiciously so as not to make matters worse.

 

I think you have two doors, the fire door and the ash door, both will need to be checked.

Thanks I will try this out. I have spoken to a Rayburn engineer by phone and he says the most likely culprit is the ash-pit door.

 

 

I PM'd you this as a reply to your PM, but since it's a question on the forum, I thought I'd add it here FWIW:

 

Hi Matt

Yeah, if we're not careful we end up roasting too! I'm not "in charge" of the fire, but in other places I've put a layer of damp slack coal over the top after topping up, smooth it and pack it down to make a crust-like layer. This additionally stops a lot of the draught through the fire, and the dampness keeps it all cooler. In the morning the idea is just to break the crust and the fire will go off again in minutes.

When do you riddle through? You could try leaving the ashes in the bottom of the fire basket to act as a further damper to help stop air getting through too much. Then riddle in the morning before topping up.

Each one seems to be different, you just have to go for trial and error with each one, I think.

Cheers

Nichimyo

 

Thanks, another thing to try. Do you find it bearable in summer, or do you switch to gas?

[nichimyo]

.....

Thanks, another thing to try. Do you find it bearable in summer, or do you switch to gas?

 

We don't use it in the summer, unless it gets chilly. We have a gas cooker, and an immersion heater or the engine for hot water.

[bottle]

Hi

 

Nichimyo's tip of leaving the ash in the pan is a good one, used to do that our selves, leaving the ash in situ has two reasons, one as Nichimyo says it reduces the draught and it also give it time to cool a little before you have to move it.

 

We used to fill ours twice a day, just before going to bed and then in the morning, we opened it up to wake the embers, emptied the ash pan, riddled it (not too much), then topped it up.

 

Rayburns are a 'living thing' each with their own foibles

[Mick and Pauline]

We've recently acquired our first boat, 'Oak Moon', currently at Woodlesford outside Leeds on the Aire & Calder, moving up to Shipley.

 

Thanks

 

Matt Dowson

 

Hi Matt,

 

I am not sure if you know but BW require three days notice to go through Leeds from Office Lock > Newlay staircase Locks and they were due to do embankment repairs at Carverley just before Apperley Bridge. The work at Caverley, I think is now deferred and the repair down sized for a later date.

It may be best to ring BW at Castleford for an up to date picture and book your passage through Leeds.

 

M&P.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Mick and Pauline

[Matthew Dowson]

Yes, thanks for that, I have been in regular contact with Castleford, the stoppage at Woodnook lock on the Aire + Calder only finished on Friday, but there's one at Globe Road bridge in Leeds until this Friday, that's if they get the work finished, its a week behind at moment due to the weather. So it'll be the following week before we get to Shipley Wharf. The lockeepper at Leeds lock has been very helpful when I've phoned up. R U on the L & L?

[Matthew Dowson]

The solution seems to be to make sure that the latch on the ash pit is firmly pushed up, this squeezes in the door making a seal, I had just been flipping it so it locked the door, but just twisting it further seems to do the trick.

[allybsc]

Yes, thanks for that, I have been in regular contact with Castleford, the stoppage at Woodnook lock on the Aire + Calder only finished on Friday, but there's one at Globe Road bridge in Leeds until this Friday, that's if they get the work finished, its a week behind at moment due to the weather. So it'll be the following week before we get to Shipley Wharf. The lockeepper at Leeds lock has been very helpful when I've phoned up. R U on the L & L?

 

We are on the L&L, took a little trip down to Saltaire a few weeks ago, it was just lovely, we went down to Shipley wharf to wind at the old warehouse just before the hire boat place, all looked very clean and neat

[Matthew Dowson]

We are on the L&L, took a little trip down to Saltaire a few weeks ago, it was just lovely, we went down to Shipley wharf to wind at the old warehouse just before the hire boat place, all looked very clean and neat

Hi, nice to hear from you. You're moored up at Niffany Farm aren't you? We used to borrow Mary Martyr from there, a very nice mooring with covered parking. Well, we haven't got to Shipley Wharf yet, currently at Apperley Bridge with electrical problems, we were the last booked passage up from Leeds Basin on Saturday with another boat Reynard, come 8am Richard from BW arrives and everythings dead, tried jumping the starter, nothing. Dave and Yvonne on Reynard gamely breasted us up, and we slowly made our lifeless way up to Rodley. Many thanks to them, bought two ropes of them while in a lock (they make them). And Rodley Boats diagnosed some major electrical issues, even they couldn't jump the engine into life. So looking for someone who knows Lister Canalstar 4 pots inside out.

It will be a few weeks befoire we get this resolved I think, until then Calder Valley Marine are giving us house room, our friends on Blue Heron towed us up there today from Rodley, quite fun being towed, certainly saves on diesel!

 

Happy Christmas. Say hi from Matt and Ruth to Paul on Mary Martyr if you see him.

[allybsc]

Hi, nice to hear from you. You're moored up at Niffany Farm aren't you? We used to borrow Mary Martyr from there, a very nice mooring with covered parking. Happy Christmas. Say hi from Matt and Ruth to Paul on Mary Martyr if you see him.

 

Ah! The Wallace and Gromit boat, the kids love the paintings on the sides, very funny. I will do so if I see them. We've only been at Niffany a few weeks, it's lovely. I hope you get your engine problems sorted. You could give Ian a ring at Pennine, lovely bloke, he will probably come out to you, or you could try River canal rescue.

Happy Christmas

Ally.

[Matthew Dowson]

Ah! The Wallace and Gromit boat, the kids love the paintings on the sides, very funny. I will do so if I see them. We've only been at Niffany a few weeks, it's lovely. I hope you get your engine problems sorted. You could give Ian a ring at Pennine, lovely bloke, he will probably come out to you, or you could try River canal rescue.

Happy Christmas

Ally.

Just to say we did use Ian at Pennine a month ago and he finally sorted our long running electrical problem, a top man, we will be passing through Niffany later next week, weds/thurs so will give you a wave.

[nichimyo]

Back on topic...

 

A cautionary tale:

 

:cheers:

 

My OH had the "bright" idea of chucking a load of salt on the fire to get rid of the build-up of tar in the chimney. He does this every now and again and it seems to work quite well usually.

This time I think his hand must have slipped because suddenly the whole boat was filled with choking fumes. I got out quick and went for a walk!!! Even so I was badly affected and it took weeks to stop coughing. What seems to have happened is the vast quantity of salt plus the heat of the fire did its thing a bit too well and cleared out all the little cracks in the thing, plus the salt actually sublimed and we got salt vapour in the air, followed by fumes from the fire which usually go up the chimney but were now escaping through the microcracks.

 

Be warned!

[Matthew Dowson]

Follow up to the 'too much heat' story. I've also found that the top door wasn't fitting well, and allowing fumes to escape and air in at the top - I could see black marks above the door. It needs a new door latch, as the old one's worn, going to fit today. Also the nut type coal we are using now is a lot better - I found at one point I had the problem that the oven etc wasn't getting hot enough nor was the radiator getting hot ... the other extreme .... but then I hadn't extracted the bucketful of soot that had accumulated and was insulating the oven. So you live and learn.

[allybsc]

Follow up to the 'too much heat' story. I've also found that the top door wasn't fitting well, and allowing fumes to escape and air in at the top - I could see black marks above the door. It needs a new door latch, as the old one's worn, going to fit today. Also the nut type coal we are using now is a lot better - I found at one point I had the problem that the oven etc wasn't getting hot enough nor was the radiator getting hot ... the other extreme .... but then I hadn't extracted the bucketful of soot that had accumulated and was insulating the oven. So you live and learn.

 

I've just moved into a house with a Royal, it get very hot over night too, solved the problem by closing the spin wheel and fire box door really tight and opening the vent panel on the front of the flue so the air draws from the room and not the fire box, we had a supreme in our old house and that was much more controllable.

[Machpoint005]

Have you got a CO detector, Matthew? Solid fuel that isn't fully burnt can give off all sorts of gases, and if fumes are escaping from where they shouldn't these could include CO (poisonous and odourless) as well as the SO2 you have probably smelt (sulphurous), to say nothing of the smoke.

 

Apologies if I'm preaching to the choir but carbon monoxide is really nasty stuff.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Machpoint005

[Matthew Dowson]

Have you got a CO detector, Matthew? Solid fuel that isn't fully burnt can give off all sorts of gases, and if fumes are escaping from where they shouldn't these could include CO (poisonous and odourless) as well as the SO2 you have probably smelt (sulphurous), to say nothing of the smoke.

 

Apologies if I'm preaching to the choir but carbon monoxide is really nasty stuff.

 

A very good point, thanks for making it, no I haven't got a detector, there's always lots of air getting in - I never have things buttoned up, but I shall get one to ensure I live to tell the tale.

[allybsc]

A very good point, thanks for making it, no I haven't got a detector, there's always lots of air getting in - I never have things buttoned up, but I shall get one to ensure I live to tell the tale.

 

We have a little stick on tile thingy that changes colour if it is giving off fumes on the wall next to ours.

[Christine]

Back on topic...

 

A cautionary tale:

 

:rolleyes:

 

My OH had the "bright" idea of chucking a load of salt on the fire to get rid of the build-up of tar in the chimney. He does this every now and again and it seems to work quite well usually.

This time I think his hand must have slipped because suddenly the whole boat was filled with choking fumes. I got out quick and went for a walk!!! Even so I was badly affected and it took weeks to stop coughing. What seems to have happened is the vast quantity of salt plus the heat of the fire did its thing a bit too well and cleared out all the little cracks in the thing, plus the salt actually sublimed and we got salt vapour in the air, followed by fumes from the fire which usually go up the chimney but were now escaping through the microcracks.

 

Be warned!

Throwing salt onto a fire is considered dangerous.

 

From past experience as a pottery student, when firing pots in a kiln, we were taught that chlorine gas is probably the most dangerous and damaging of the pollutants produced by salt glaze firings. The chance of a damaging dose while firing a salt kiln is remote. Even so, caution should be exercised since individual tolerances vary widely and as little as one part per million has been known to have an effect. In no case should a salt kiln be built and fired in a tightly closed structure.

 

 

I guess that the same effect could be experienced if you chucked salt into a Rayburn.

[Matthew Dowson]

I've just moved into a house with a Royal, it get very hot over night too, solved the problem by closing the spin wheel and fire box door really tight and opening the vent panel on the front of the flue so the air draws from the room and not the fire box, we had a supreme in our old house and that was much more controllable.

 

Ally - yes, they're tricky things these solid fuel ranges aren't they - when I can find my socket set I shall install said new door latch that I got online - I can recommend www.agafixspares.com - fast postal service. I'm still thinking about giving him £30 or so for the toaster device, just thought I could make do with a few bits of chicken wire, not that I have any to hand!

 

How's life at Niffany Bridge? I met some people who moor up there - fitting out a new Liverpool boats cruiser resplendent in grey primer - a very nice couple in their 30s, we had fun on a very windy day at the bottom of Bank Newton at Easter when Ruth got stuck on the wrong side of the cut and couldn't lever herself off due to unbelievably strong head wind, I of course was no help being on towpath heading off to get lock ready. The couple were trying to wind round and getting nowhere fast, so we had a fun half hour until everything got sorted.

 

Do you sell soap from the boat?

Edited July 5, 2007 by Matthew Dowson

[allybsc]

Ally - yes, they're tricky things these solid fuel ranges aren't they - when I can find my socket set I shall install said new door latch that I got online - I can recommend www.agafixspares.com - fast postal service. I'm still thinking about giving him £30 or so for the toaster device, just thought I could make do with a few bits of chicken wire, not that I have any to hand!

 

How's life at Niffany Bridge? I met some people who moor up there - fitting out a new Liverpool boats cruiser resplendent in grey primer - a very nice couple in their 30s, we had fun on a very windy day at the bottom of Bank Newton at Easter when Ruth got stuck on the wrong side of the cut and couldn't lever herself off due to unbelievably strong head wind, I of course was no help being on towpath heading off to get lock ready. The couple were trying to wind round and getting nowhere fast, so we had a fun half hour until everything got sorted.

 

Do you sell soap from the boat?

 

Toaster device??? What's wrong with just putting the bread on the hotplate and closing the lid? Apart from the fact that the slices end up a bit thin ( makes great toasties). Have you seen the rayburn cookbook, it's really worth having.

Niffany is just lovely, the people are all very nice, lots of active boat owners not just people who moor there and visit now and then.

I don't sell soap from the boat, I slog round trade fairs, next one is in Harrogate starts next weekend so we get to stay on the boat for nearly a week...yeah!!! I just won a contract with the National Trust from the last fair I did, orders are coming in thick and fast so I won't get much sleep this week.

[Orphiel]

We have a little stick on tile thingy that changes colour if it is giving off fumes on the wall next to ours.

 

Ooh, what is this? I have a detector that goes off if the fumes get too much, but something you can look at would be useful as well. Does it also change gradually, so you can see when stuff is happening, etc?

 

Meg

[Matthew Dowson]

Toaster device??? What's wrong with just putting the bread on the hotplate and closing the lid? Apart from the fact that the slices end up a bit thin ( makes great toasties). Have you seen the rayburn cookbook, it's really worth having.

Niffany is just lovely, the people are all very nice, lots of active boat owners not just people who moor there and visit now and then.

I don't sell soap from the boat, I slog round trade fairs, next one is in Harrogate starts next weekend so we get to stay on the boat for nearly a week...yeah!!! I just won a contract with the National Trust from the last fair I did, orders are coming in thick and fast so I won't get much sleep this week.

 

Only time I tried it the bread stuck to the hotplate, perhaps not hot enough when I tried?? Does it work for you?