What can you tell me about this heating circuit

[DeanS]

The thing on the left is an Alde gas heater.

The thing in the middle is a calorifier

The thing on the right is the boat eng.

The floating cloud is an expansion vessel.

 

Forgive my hand drawn pic

 

My questions are:

 

What kind of calorifier has so many connections to it.?

Where might the light green piping go to.?

Where might the light blue piping go to?

 

Are D and C inputs?

 

Is E an input or output?

 

Why would the dark purple piping T off to a pipe...

[pelicanafloat]

It's a standard vertical indirect twin coiled copper cylinder. Now, the interesting bit is how big is the expansion vessel? I would assume the dark purple pipe goes to a pressure relief valve, rated at 3 bar?

 

The light green piping should join up with the light blue to form your heating circuit. As for the light green bit wanting off vertically apparently going nowhere, that looks a bit like an expansion pipe but the Alde already has an expansion vessel.

 

Ç is the cold water inlet to cylinder

 

E - D is an internal heating coil, as is H -I. The outlet B is the flow from the Alde, it connects to E and as it flows through the coil giving out heat it returns back to the Alde via D back to A. The flow and return tee off and run round feeding to, and returning from the radiators.

 

I think I got that right.....

 

Only concern I would have is whether the cylinder is rated to the pressure of the pressure relief valve, cause if it isn't I know which will go first :-)

 

Aught to add, I can't remember what a standard cylinder is pressure rated to, hence my concern. Of course, if it stainless steel then it will be ...

Edited October 14, 2013 by pelicanafloat

[DeanS]

Thanks.

 

In this installation the purple pipe G going to the expansion vessel, has a t piece in it....with a pipe on it (connected to nothing). You're saying that should have something on it..like a pressure relief valve? It doesnt. What's that mean?

[pelicanafloat]

Thanks.

 

In this installation the purple pipe G going to the expansion vessel, has a t piece in it....with a pipe on it (connected to nothing). You're saying that should have something on it..like a pressure relief valve? It doesnt. What's that mean?

Well so far I am making assumption that what I have described is correct and matches your diagram. Put it this way, whatever the cold supply is pressured to, this will be the minimum pressure of the cylinder. So, if you an opened pipe it sort of makes sense to expect it to be emptying your water tank.

[Kae]

Thanks.

 

In this installation the purple pipe G going to the expansion vessel, has a t piece in it....with a pipe on it (connected to nothing). You're saying that should have something on it..like a pressure relief valve? It doesnt. What's that mean?

 

Does it have a stop-valve on it? Could be a drain-down point (so you have somewhere to drain the system).

[DeanS]

will recheck today. Helping a friend move it from one side of the boat to another, and also remove the Radiator.

 

Would I be correct in assuming that if I disconnected / blocked off N and O, I could then safely remove the Radiator from the circuit. I'd probably remove the T-pieces where N and O pipes originate.

Edited October 15, 2013 by DeanS

[pelicanafloat]

Without looking I cannot give you an answer. The system as you describe has funny bits that leave question marks. Out of interest, the open purple pipe, does it have a brass nut and ferrel stuck on the end?. I would assume you are draining down the system but I'd still use lots of dustsheets under any rads that I remove....

[DeanS]

Without looking I cannot give you an answer. The system as you describe has funny bits that leave question marks. Out of interest, the open purple pipe, does it have a brass nut and ferrel stuck on the end?. I would assume you are draining down the system but I'd still use lots of dustsheets under any rads that I remove....

 

 

I had another look, and the purple pipe has a valve upstream, so it's not vented...it's closed...and I suppose can be opened to empty the expansion vessel etc.

 

Does it have a stop-valve on it? Could be a drain-down point (so you have somewhere to drain the system).

 

Yes. I found a stop valve after having another look.

I need to move this entire bunch of equipment from one side of the boat to another.

 

AND...

 

I need to remove the radiators completely.

 

Any tips welcome.

I THINK Q and R go to the kitchen taps, via ANOTHER water pump in the kitchen.

Would it make sense to stick a water pump on R....

 

 

as I strip the boat, I'll be able to trace all the question marks in this system.

[Kae]

 

 

Any tips welcome.

 

You're going to get wet!

 

Even when you think you've drained the system, the chances are there will still be water in low lying pipework, the bottom of radiators etc.

Even when you've moved things around several times, you can still pick something up and magically more water sloshes out!

 

So, lots of towels is a good start! Remember that the antifreeze in cooling circuits is toxic, so avoid drinking it and no emptying buckets into the canal.

 

 

I would always try and use new pipework and connectors where applicable. If a joint looks dodgy, replace it. If the end of a pipe isn't cut square, re-cut or replace. If it can leak, it will. Even if it has all been watertight in the past, disconnecting and moving everything now will give it chance to leak in the future.

[DeanS]

 

You're going to get wet!

 

Even when you think you've drained the system, the chances are there will still be water in low lying pipework, the bottom of radiators etc.

Even when you've moved things around several times, you can still pick something up and magically more water sloshes out!

 

So, lots of towels is a good start! Remember that the antifreeze in cooling circuits is toxic, so avoid drinking it and no emptying buckets into the canal.

 

 

I would always try and use new pipework and connectors where applicable. If a joint looks dodgy, replace it. If the end of a pipe isn't cut square, re-cut or replace. If it can leak, it will. Even if it has all been watertight in the past, disconnecting and moving everything now will give it chance to leak in the future.

 

 

good points. thx.

[Alastair]

Is there not a Y valve before the pump?

 

Without it, I'm not sure what stops water circulating around radiators when the system is just calling for hot water.

 

Also looks a bit odd to my eyes in that if you return to a cold boat and fire that up, it will take heat from the hot water system

[DeanS]

The rad has now been removed completely.

I've also traced the pipes to the water tank and pump.

 

I have some questions about moving this stuff to another location in the boat.

 

What's the best way to empty the calarifier, and the Alde boiler.?

Once it's moved, can I just switch on the cold water supply...will it fill up everything normally again?

What's the best way of unscrewing the engine pipes...without draining water out the engine....

 

etc

Edited October 15, 2013 by DeanS

[Pete & Helen]

Quote "What's the best way of unscrewing the engine pipes...without draining water out the engine...."

 

Dean, Are there no isolating valves on the engine connections? I of course should assume you have looked. with all this pipe work when you refit I think it would be advisable to fit isolating valves in case any problems exist at a later date.

Back to your question, It will depend where the connections are taken from and relative height of the tank to the engine but I would think that its higher up so would think you can disconnect at the tank end and just catch the water from the coil. If you have to disconnect at the engine then prep a short piece of pipe with the correct connector to fit the engine on one end and an isolation valve on the other. you will loose some water, unless you can get a container under it, but with little pressure in the system if your quick it will be minimal. watch out for syphoning from the pipe you take off or you could end up draining the engine. Best to do the top connection first.

 

Have fun

Pete

Edited October 16, 2013 by Pete & Helen

[DeanS]

Quote "What's the best way of unscrewing the engine pipes...without draining water out the engine...."

 

If you have to disconnect at the engine then prep a short piece of pipe with the correct connector to fit the engine on one end and an isolation valve on the other. you will loose some water, unless you can get a container under it, but with little pressure in the system if your quick it will be minimal. watch out for syphoning from the pipe you take off or you could end up draining the engine. Best to do the top connection first.

 

 

Many Thanks. I havent braved looking in the engine yet to see where the engine connections are made. I'm hoping they are rubber hose, in which case I may be able to clamp them shut before chopping the plastic bit downstream. I guess I can then drain the water out the coil...which shouldnt be too much, and once the calorifier is moved, just connect the shorter distance back to the engine piping, and remove the clamps. Not sure what you meant by siphoning....but I think if I manage to do as I've described, I should have too much mess/water everywhere/engine dry. Am I right in thinking I should recheck the engine water level, unless he's got a heat exchange in place.

 

 

eta....of course if there are isolators in the engine room...that will be nice.

Edited October 16, 2013 by DeanS

[Pete & Helen]

 

Many Thanks. I havent braved looking in the engine yet to see where the engine connections are made. I'm hoping they are rubber hose, in which case I may be able to clamp them shut before chopping the plastic bit downstream. I guess I can then drain the water out the coil...which shouldnt be too much, and once the calorifier is moved, just connect the shorter distance back to the engine piping, and remove the clamps. Not sure what you meant by siphoning....but I think if I manage to do as I've described, I should have too much mess/water everywhere/engine dry. Am I right in thinking I should recheck the engine water level, unless he's got a heat exchange in place.

 

 

eta....of course if there are isolators in the engine room...that will be nice.

I was thinking if the bottom engine pipe was disconnected (at the engine) then even with the engine "hole" blocked the disconnected pipe would then be the lowest point in the engine water system and could syphon the rest out but wouldn't happen if the top pipe was done first.

I'm sure your more than capable in sorting that out.

 

Always best to check all water levels after working on any system.

 

You could always drain the engine down and replenish with fresh water/anti-freeze if its not been done on a while as a prep for winter use

[smileypete]

What's the best way of unscrewing the engine pipes...without draining water out the engine....

I'd take the expansion bottle cap off to release any pressure, then replace it, also there may be some sort of breather hole near the top of the expansion bottle, if so plug that so it's air tight.

 

Next take the lowest pipe off, slowly at first and with a bowl underneath and plug the hose or pipe on either side. Then do the same for the higher pipe.

 

If you take both sides off without plugging them then air will get sucked into the higher one and coolant flow out through the lower, by plugging them it should stop this happening, hopefully!

 

Someone like Tim Leech may have a better idea!

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited October 16, 2013 by smileypete

[DeanS]

Once I disconnect all the pipes and move the thing, and reconnect, and run the boat water pump, will the calorifier and Alde refill themselves, or do I need to worry about airlocks. Would I just crank open the top outlet on the calorifier till all the air is out, and water is pouring out, and reseal it?

[Captain Fizz]

Running the boat's domestic water pump will only fill the hot water content of the colorifier not the heating circuits either to the engine or Alde boiler. Those circuits will have to be refilled independently and all the air bled from them. The water int both circuits should contain antifreeze.

[DeanS]

Running the boat's domestic water pump will only fill the hot water content of the colorifier not the heating circuits either to the engine or Alde boiler. Those circuits will have to be refilled independently and all the air bled from them. The water int both circuits should contain antifreeze.

 

got it.