Tiller Top Bearings

[kayDee]

Hi all...

We went out for a cruise on Saturday and noticed that the tiller seemed quite loose. When we got back, we were informed that the top bearings had gone - allowing the tiller to wobble in its fixings at the top where the tiller arm fits on.

Someone suggested that the job is possible without being taken out of the water but I'm not 100%

Are we talking a really expensive job to sort this? Hope it doesn't need to come out of the water???? Eeeek!

I've attached the photo just in case anyone can fathom out if its possible to fix without being craned out!?!?

Kay

x

[denboy]

plumbers boss around £30 from most bearing suppliers you can easily do it in the water you can either buy the inner or the complete unit

[Guest]

I am working off memory so please forgive me if I am wrong Kay, but I seem to remember that Tyto had a couple of bolts in the rudder shaft just above the rudder. If i am correct, I suspect you will be able to undo these in the water via the weedhatch, after tying a piece of rope around the blade. The top bearing should then be removable from the deck. I will see if there is any clue on the photos that I have.

[kayDee]

plumbers boss around £30 from most bearing suppliers you can easily do it in the water you can either buy the inner or the complete unit

 

Thanks for that Denboy but I doubt we'd even attempt it - what if the rudder drops out of the bottom and sinks to the bottom? Eeek! I think we'll be asking PB to do the work. I'd certainly be asking them to replace the complete thing as there is a chance the other bits will fail too - if the top one has - I've just done a few google searches and I think its the "rudder stock bearing" ?

Anyway, will be contacting them tomorrow and hope its not too much to fix!

Kay

x

[Gary Peacock]

It wont need to come out of the water and it's a fairly easy and cheap to do provided the bearing isn't an oddball one.

 

Have a look on this page and see if you can spot one that matches.

 

http://s130174336.oneandoneshop.co.uk./sho...view.shopscript

[kayDee]

I am working off memory so please forgive me if I am wrong Kay, but I seem to remember that Tyto had a couple of bolts in the rudder shaft just above the rudder. If i am correct, I suspect you will be able to undo these in the water via the weedhatch, after tying a piece of rope around the blade. The top bearing should then be removable from the deck. I will see if there is any clue on the photos that I have.

 

Thanks for that CW - much appreciated. There is like a little collar around the shaft - where it goes down into the boat and yes, it has two bolts in it.

Thanks for taking time to have a look at the photos!

Kay

x

 

It wont need to come out of the water and it's a fairly easy and cheap to do provided the bearing isn't an oddball one.

 

Have a look on this page and see if you can spot one that matches.

 

http://s130174336.oneandoneshop.co.uk./sho...view.shopscript

 

Thanks for that Gary, will have a little looksky!

Kay

x

[denboy]

Thanks for that Denboy but I doubt we'd even attempt it - what if the rudder drops out of the bottom and sinks to the bottom? Eeek! I think we'll be asking PB to do the work. I'd certainly be asking them to replace the complete thing as there is a chance the other bits will fail too - if the top one has - I've just done a few google searches and I think its the "rudder stock bearing" ?

Anyway, will be contacting them tomorrow and hope its not too much to fix!

Kay

x

theres very little chance of the rudder coming off although just in case rope it up, and the casings rarely fail think the bearing on its own is around £18 the last time i did one

[kayDee]

Hi again...

I forgot to say that the bearing has actually fallen through from where it was fitted and its just a hole around the shaft now - hence why it just rattles around now and you can move the whole assembly around.

 

Gary, I've no idea which it will be as the original one is down at the bottom of the cut somewhere! I appreciate the link though!

Kay

x

 

theres very little chance of the rudder coming off although just in case rope it up, and the casings rarely fail think the bearing on its own is around £18 the last time i did one

 

Thanks for that Denboy - I didn't realise you could suspend it - I guess you could do that from the weed hatch?

Anyway, will see what PB Mechanics say tomorrow. I also noticed a week or so ago when we went out - in reverse (with quite a few revs) - water was coming up through the bottom of where the tiller connects! Was this the start of the problems? Hehe!

Kay

x

[denboy]

thats because the bearing has gone so water just shoots up the tube ps since its all fell off at least its not seized to the rudder making it easier

[kayDee]

thats because the bearing has gone so water just shoots up the tube ps since its all fell off at least its not seized to the rudder making it easier

 

That's true!

Kay

x

[alan_fincher]

On the top of most rudders, the projecting round bit that usually is just above water, there is usually a hole.

 

If you are doing anything where you are worried it could fall out, a rope attached through the hole beforehand is a useful safeguard.

 

A

[kayDee]

On the top of most rudders, the projecting round bit that usually is just above water, there is usually a hole.

 

If you are doing anything where you are worried it could fall out, a rope attached through the hole beforehand is a useful safeguard.

 

A

 

Thanks for that Alan - I guess the marine mechanics will know what they're doing - unlike moi! :lol: :lol:

Kay

x

[RobinJ]

Hi all...

We went out for a cruise on Saturday and noticed that the tiller seemed quite loose. When we got back, we were informed that the top bearings had gone - allowing the tiller to wobble in its fixings at the top where the tiller arm fits on.

Someone suggested that the job is possible without being taken out of the water but I'm not 100%

Are we talking a really expensive job to sort this? Hope it doesn't need to come out of the water???? Eeeek!

I've attached the photo just in case anyone can fathom out if its possible to fix without being craned out!?!?

Looks very similar to mine, just recently replaced at a cost of £12.

Have a look around the casting, there should be a code beginning with an 'F' or a 'P' or something similar (mine was F213 I think). You should be able to locate them on the web, or look for a bearing supplier, they are usually refered to as flange bearings.

 

Looking at the photo there is a securing bolt on the top of the boss, make sure the rudder is still located in the bottom bearing!

Remove the bolt, using a piece of wood and a large hammer, give the boss two sharp taps on the side about 90 degrees apart and the taper should separate. When the tiller arm is off, the bearing can be unbolted. The studs should be welded on, but just check as you remove the nuts.

Only problem is lining the tiller arm back up, so if you've got one of those holes in the top of the rudder, stick a rope through so you can re-align it easier.

[kayDee]

Looks very similar to mine, just recently replaced at a cost of £12.

Have a look around the casting, there should be a code beginning with an 'F' or a 'P' or something similar (mine was F213 I think). You should be able to locate them on the web, or look for a bearing supplier, they are usually refered to as flange bearings.

 

Looking at the photo there is a securing bolt on the top of the boss, make sure the rudder is still located in the bottom bearing!

Remove the bolt, using a piece of wood and a large hammer, give the boss two sharp taps on the side about 90 degrees apart and the taper should separate. When the tiller arm is off, the bearing can be unbolted. The studs should be welded on, but just check as you remove the nuts.

Only problem is lining the tiller arm back up, so if you've got one of those holes in the top of the rudder, stick a rope through so you can re-align it easier.

 

Thanks for that Robin - much appreciated. I doubt we'll be attempting it! I was just concerned about cost. I wasn't sure if it was going to be up in the hundreds somewhere to rectify! If we can get top and bottom bearings replaced for under £100 inc labour then I'll be happy. We might as well change the bottom bearings even if they've not yet failed - get them both changed at the same time while the tiller arm is off etc...

Kay

x

 

Edited to say: I will have a look for a number stamp though - might save the mechanics a visit!

Edited March 9, 2009 by kayDee

[denboy]

Thanks for that Robin - much appreciated. I doubt we'll be attempting it! I was just concerned about cost. I wasn't sure if it was going to be up in the hundreds somewhere to rectify! If we can get top and bottom bearings replaced for under £100 inc labour then I'll be happy. We might as well change the bottom bearings even if they've not yet failed - get them both changed at the same time while the tiller arm is off etc...

Kay

x

 

Edited to say: I will have a look for a number stamp though - might save the mechanics a visit!

Kay there are no bottom bearings (ive never seen any)the rudder just sits in a cup on the skeg

[RobinJ]

Kay there are no bottom bearings (ive never seen any)the rudder just sits in a cup on the skeg

Mine was just a cup on the skeg, so I made sure when the new bearing went in that the rudder stock was suspended on the bearing without any weight on the skeg!

 

I've seen some with bushes, either brass or nylon, but none with actual balls or rollers!

[chris w]

Hi all...

We went out for a cruise on Saturday and noticed that the tiller seemed quite loose. When we got back, we were informed that the top bearings had gone - allowing the tiller to wobble in its fixings at the top where the tiller arm fits on.

Someone suggested that the job is possible without being taken out of the water but I'm not 100%

Are we talking a really expensive job to sort this? Hope it doesn't need to come out of the water???? Eeeek!

I've attached the photo just in case anyone can fathom out if its possible to fix without being craned out!?!?

Kay

x

Just one thought before you go changing things. On my boat the bearing is held tight by 3 allen screws around the circumference of the bearing holder. These periodically work loose and the tiller will then wobble a bit. Tightening them every month or so stops all the wobbling and everything is fine again. Has anyone checked that it's not this simple on yours before you actually change the bearing?

 

Chris

[kayDee]

Just one thought before you go changing things. On my boat the bearing is held tight by 3 allen screws around the circumference of the bearing holder. These periodically work loose and the tiller will then wobble a bit. Tightening them every month or so stops all the wobbling and everything is fine again. Has anyone checked that it's not this simple on yours before you actually change the bearing?

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris

We've not checked it 100% but there is a hole all the way around the tiller shaft that I can get my fingers down into and there are bits of gnarled metal around the shaft where it would appear to once have had something. The tiller arm REALLY wobbles around - not just a little wobble by any means! Shall I take a close-up photo of how it looks now?

Kay

x

[John Orentas]

Hi Chris

We've not checked it 100% but there is a hole all the way around the tiller shaft that I can get my fingers down into and there are bits of gnarled metal around the shaft where it would appear to once have had something. The tiller arm REALLY wobbles around - not just a little wobble by any means! Shall I take a close-up photo of how it looks now?

Kay

x

 

 

Hi Kay.

 

Can you arrange to measure the diameter of the rudder shaft, I might have a replacement bearing in which case you will be welcome to it..

Once you have stripped things down the bearing will easily fit into the housing which has a spherical form, you will not need to bother aligning anything, it will sort itself out.

[Timleech]

Hi Chris

We've not checked it 100% but there is a hole all the way around the tiller shaft that I can get my fingers down into and there are bits of gnarled metal around the shaft where it would appear to once have had something. The tiller arm REALLY wobbles around - not just a little wobble by any means! Shall I take a close-up photo of how it looks now?

Kay

x

 

It sounds as though you have lost your balls

 

It's one of those 'how long is a piece of string' jobs. It might all be simple & straightforward, but there could be a struggle to get the top (Ram's head, tiller arm, call it what you will) off, and it's quite possible that the central part of the bearing will be rusted onto the shaft and have to be cut off with a grinder.

I'm not trying to depress you, just warning you of a 'worst case scenario' which could push the price up if you're paying for it to be done. The bearing itself should be cheap enough, but I have known jobs like this take half a day. Others might only take half an hour.

Normally I'd expect between one and two hours.

My preference is for the weight of the rudder to be carried on the skeg, leave the little clamping grub screws loose on the new bearing, you're less likely to have vibration problems than if the weight is taken on that top bearing which can allow the rudder blade to flap about in the wash from the prop.

 

Tim