WEBASTO NIGHTMARE UPDATE!

[Guest TerryL]

Well done Paul,

 

As I have a court case pending in a few weeks time for what sounds like very similar problems, your outcome sets a powerful precedent.

 

With respect to my claim, is it acceptable, ethical and legal for me to submit extracts from this thread to the court to provide further supporting material?

 

I can offer further info to this debate. My heater, installed by myself, purchased from a main dealer, has persistantly failed to function correctly from new. My unique(?) situation is that I know exactly what fuel the heater has been running on throughout its life as I obtained it directly from the same major fuel distributor on three seperate occasions. The distributor has provided me with the full specifications of the fuel. Furthermore they have also stated that they have supplied identical fuel to two or more inland marinas.

The fuel (which is sold legally as red diesel) meets or exceeds BS 2869 Classes A2 and D.

 

The heater supplier has persisted in blaming my installation for the heater problems without having seen it. However another authorised supplier of the same units has seen it and has confirmed to me in writing that the installation is satisfactory. (Having done well in the awards at the IWA National can't hurt in confirming my competence to carry out such an installation either.)

 

No problem from me. What are the problems you've been getting and what is your installation?

[Trilby Tim]

What fuel is the heater specified to run on? And what did the dealer who sold it to you tell you it would run on? Does that BS standard meet it? I think that BS2869 is for the 'regular' red diesel sold everywhere, but according to post 28 then Eberspacher at least are recommending using EN590 fuel, which is low sulphur (amongst other improvements) diesel.

[Trilby Tim]

‘The most probable cause for the high build up of carbon and reduced burner life is due to an excessive presence of sulphur and/or other unknown properties within the fuel and/or fuel tank, and is not in any way related to a Webasto product or installation’.

Sounds like a cop out, means they don't really know what the problem is with the fuel, just that there's something up with it. It doesn't really make that much difference though, the important thing is that it doesn't run properly on canalside red diesel, but does run OK on EN590 low sulphur diesel. It may be the high sulphur content, or it may be one of the myriad of other differences between the two types of fuel that stops it running on red.

[Guest TerryL]

Sounds like a cop out, means they don't really know what the problem is with the fuel, just that there's something up with it. It doesn't really make that much difference though, the important thing is that it doesn't run properly on canalside red diesel, but does run OK on EN590 low sulphur diesel. It may be the high sulphur content, or it may be one of the myriad of other differences between the two types of fuel that stops it running on red.

 

Low sulphur diesel also has a lot of kerosene in it which vaporises better and so burns cleaner and much better in these burners. The design never ever has coped well with the usual gas oil so LSD and ULSD must be a god send for these manufacturers but it's not commonly available yet except at the pumps with the extra tax on it. I'd recommend running on low tax kerosene at least until ULSD is available for boats.

[magnetman]

Low sulphur diesel also has a lot of kerosene in it which vaporises better and so burns cleaner and much better in these burners. The design never ever has coped well with the usual gas oil so LSD and ULSD must be a god send for these manufacturers but it's not commonly available yet except at the pumps with the extra tax on it. I'd recommend running on low tax kerosene at least until ULSD is available for boats.

Is Kerosene exactly the same product as paraffin? If so where can you get it for sensible money (low tax??) in relatively small quantities like 20 litre containers for example?

[Guest TerryL]

Is Kerosene exactly the same product as paraffin? If so where can you get it for sensible money (low tax??) in relatively small quantities like 20 litre containers for example?

 

 

Paraffin is more refined and used to be reasonably cheap in the days of the paraffin heater, remember Esso Blue and Alladin Pink? Used to get it at the ironmongers but not many about now. Some garages do it and kerosene but I don't think it's that cheap. You may know someone with oil fired heating that will sell you some kerosene. If you top up your main diesel tank with it say up to 20% it will make a difference. You can buy it in 45 gallon (200ltr) drums or if you've got somewhere for a tank buy in bulk, 900-1000 ltrs gets the better price. Many oil suppliers are not keen to deliver to boats so don't tell them.

[Paul Sylvan]

I do a fair number of boiler/burner services, a good number are running on gas oil including two of my own. Even if there was a high build up of yellow sulphur deposits which would normally be deposited on the heat exchanger surfaces over a long time and cleaned off on the annual service, this does not explain how it can cause a high build up of carbon that should not appear and does not happen with a pressure jet burner in normal serviced use.

 

This is a totally separate problem due to incomplete combustion. If sulphur is responsible in some way by clogging it up for example then that has always been the case because the fuel is the same as it always was and this problem would be down to the burner design. These problems have been going back decades and it can't be new to them!

 

Obviously a burner needs cleaning and adjusting periodicly but I understand your problem happened fairly quickly so how would it build up that quickly bearing in mind the sulphur mostly leaves via the exhaust? The most I see is a thin coat and usually in the cooler parts of the boiler which might be a clue to your problem. Other deposits (white) are caused by condensation especially if the boiler is run below the dew point of about 50oC. If you think your fuel might be unusual you can always have it analysed! Can I see the burner pictures/report?

 

Hi TerryL

 

I have enclosed the full Webasto report but unfortunately the pictures have not transferred to the post. There are a number of inaccurate statments within the report mainly relating to dates and who did what etc, but the report does give a fair indication of the heater problems.

 

 

Webasto

Feel the drive

Department: Engineering

Phone Tel No: 01302322232 Fax Fax No : 01302 322231 E-Mail workshop@webastouk.com

Date: 30th January 2008

 

 

 

Subject: Objective: Attendees: Next meeting:

Copy to:

 

Thermo Top C Webasto Heater Report on heater failure

Paul Suliivan, New Boat Company, BK Marine & Vehicle Heating

 

Product Thermo Top C

Boat:

Customer: Paul Sullivan

Summery of the Heater's History.

March 2007: This was the first reported fault with the unit after 3 months usage, BK Marine & Vehicle Heating where called out to the boat to carry out checks and repairs.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

^- Repair/checks carried out:

• Installation was checked with no reported faults found

• Burner was inspected and found to be badly carbonized

• Burner was changed

• Co2 was checked

June 2007: The second reported failure was about 3 months after the first repair, 6 months from new. BK Marine & Vehicle Heating where called out to the boat to carry out checks and repairs. An Engineer from Webasto Doncaster also went along to assist.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

Repair/checks carried out:

• Installation was checked with no reported faults found

• Burner was examined and found to be carbonized.

• Suspicion was noted that this could be a "poor fuel quality" issue

• To eliminate any faults associate with the actual

Heater the unit was replaced with a new one from sjpck

• Co2 was checked

 

 

Webasto

Fee/ the drive

 

 

Sep 2007: The third reported failure was about was again about 2 to 3 months after the second repair, 9 months from new. BK Marine & Vehicle Heating where called out to the boat to carry out checks and repairs.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

Repair/checks carried out:

• Burner was examined and found to be carbonized.

• Burner was changed

• Fuel Pump was replaced as a measure to eliminate any

Relationship between fault and the installed Webasto Equipment.

• Co2 was checked

Nov 2007: The forth reported failure was about 2 months after the third visit, 11 months from new. An engineer from Webasto Doncaster attended the boat with the objective of isolating the boats own fuel supply and running the unit from a clean supply of white diesel for an extended period of 2 months.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

Repair/checks carried out:

• Burner was examined and found to be carbonized.

• Burner was changed

» The boat's fuel supply to the heater was isolated and a 20 Itr jerry can filled with forecourt white diesel was installed.

• Co2 was checked

Jan 2008: No reported faults. Webasto Engineer attended the boat with the intention of inspecting the burner after 2 months of running on white diesel in comparison to the burner running of the boats supply.

Nature of reported fault:

• No reported faults

Repair/checks carried out:

• The heater was striped and the burner was inspected and compared

with the old burner which had been running from the boats own supply of fuel.

• Upon examination of the burner which had been running on clean diesel,

a build up of carbon was noted, but was not (in the opinion of the Webasto engineer) unusual due to the amount of running time the heater had sustain during the test, and in no way was effecting the heaters functionality.

• The ctear noticeable difference between the two burners was down to amount of white

residue which was present on the burner which had been running from the boats

own supply of diesel. This white residue is an indication of excessive amounts of sulpher or other unknown properties within the diesel that are known to cause excessive wear of the burner. See pictures (fig 1) & (fig 2) below.

• The burner was changed

• The fuel system was reconnected to the boats own supply of fuel

• The Co2 was checked

 

 

 

Webasto Thermosysteme International GmbH

 

 

Webasto

Feel the drive

 

Conclusion:

After each repair and burner change the heater would operate as normal for up to 3 mouths. Each time the heater failed the reported fault was "failure to restart after control idol period". The reason was due to the fact that the build up of carbon was to such an extent as to completely cover the giow pin and subsequently prevent restart of the heater. See picture (fig 2)

The most probable cause for the high build up of carbon and reduced burner life is due to an excessive presence of sulpher and/or other unknown properties within the fuel and/or fuel tank, and is not in any way related to a Webasto product or installation issue.

 

Regards

 

Paul

[Paul Sylvan]

Well done Paul,

 

As I have a court case pending in a few weeks time for what sounds like very similar problems, your outcome sets a powerful precedent.

 

With respect to my claim, is it acceptable, ethical and legal for me to submit extracts from this thread to the court to provide further supporting material?

 

I can offer further info to this debate. My heater, installed by myself, purchased from a main dealer, has persistantly failed to function correctly from new. My unique(?) situation is that I know exactly what fuel the heater has been running on throughout its life as I obtained it directly from the same major fuel distributor on three seperate occasions. The distributor has provided me with the full specifications of the fuel. Furthermore they have also stated that they have supplied identical fuel to two or more inland marinas.

The fuel (which is sold legally as red diesel) meets or exceeds BS 2869 Classes A2 and D.

 

The heater supplier has persisted in blaming my installation for the heater problems without having seen it. However another authorised supplier of the same units has seen it and has confirmed to me in writing that the installation is satisfactory. (Having done well in the awards at the IWA National can't hurt in confirming my competence to carry out such an installation either.)

 

Hi Robkg

 

Interesting post. I have sent you a personal message concerning the above. Good luck with your case,

 

Paul

[Guest TerryL]

Summery of the Heater's History.

March 2007: This was the first reported fault with the unit after 3 months usage, BK Marine & Vehicle Heating where called out to the boat to carry out checks and repairs.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

^- Repair/checks carried out:

• Installation was checked with no reported faults found

• Burner was inspected and found to be badly carbonized

• Burner was changed

• Co2 was checked

June 2007: The second reported failure was about 3 months after the first repair, 6 months from new. BK Marine & Vehicle Heating where called out to the boat to carry out checks and repairs. An Engineer from Webasto Doncaster also went along to assist.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

Repair/checks carried out:

• Installation was checked with no reported faults found

• Burner was examined and found to be carbonized.

• Suspicion was noted that this could be a "poor fuel quality" issue

• To eliminate any faults associate with the actual

Heater the unit was replaced with a new one from sjpck

• Co2 was checked

 

Sep 2007: The third reported failure was about was again about 2 to 3 months after the second repair, 9 months from new. BK Marine & Vehicle Heating where called out to the boat to carry out checks and repairs.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

Repair/checks carried out:

• Burner was examined and found to be carbonized.

• Burner was changed

• Fuel Pump was replaced as a measure to eliminate any

Relationship between fault and the installed Webasto Equipment.

• Co2 was checked

Nov 2007: The forth reported failure was about 2 months after the third visit, 11 months from new. An engineer from Webasto Doncaster attended the boat with the objective of isolating the boats own fuel supply and running the unit from a clean supply of white diesel for an extended period of 2 months.

Nature of reported fault:

• Heater would run for about 1 hour then fail to restart after control idol period

Repair/checks carried out:

• Burner was examined and found to be carbonized.

• Burner was changed

» The boat's fuel supply to the heater was isolated and a 20 Itr jerry can filled with forecourt white diesel was installed.

• Co2 was checked

Jan 2008: No reported faults. Webasto Engineer attended the boat with the intention of inspecting the burner after 2 months of running on white diesel in comparison to the burner running of the boats supply.

Nature of reported fault:

• No reported faults

Repair/checks carried out:

• The heater was striped and the burner was inspected and compared

with the old burner which had been running from the boats own supply of fuel.

• Upon examination of the burner which had been running on clean diesel,

a build up of carbon was noted, but was not (in the opinion of the Webasto engineer) unusual due to the amount of running time the heater had sustain during the test, and in no way was effecting the heaters functionality.

• The ctear noticeable difference between the two burners was down to amount of white

residue which was present on the burner which had been running from the boats

own supply of diesel. This white residue is an indication of excessive amounts of sulpher or other unknown properties within the diesel that are known to cause excessive wear of the burner. See pictures (fig 1) & (fig 2) below.

• The burner was changed

• The fuel system was reconnected to the boats own supply of fuel

• The Co2 was checked

 

Paul has sent me scanned pictures of his burner, they are not brilliant but sufficiently clear to see carbon build up on both burners. The one running on the boats supply for two to three months shows approximately one third coverage of carbon and over the glow pin. The one running on white diesel for two months shows approximatey the same amount of carbon but not covering the glow pin, sulphur has made no apparent difference! This carbon would be easy to remove when serviced and can break off and burn away in normal service provided the glow pin is not completely covered. If the burners were run for identical times it would not be unexpected, considering the amount of carbon present, for the burner to stop in a similar time. The test therefore was inconclusive. My conclusion to that is that white diesel has made little or no difference to the running efficiency on this burner installation.

 

The report states that Co2 was checked several times but does not state at all what the readings were or what the smoke reading or stack temperatures were which is required to calculate the efficiency and Co2 reading. There are no adjustments to make but the Co2 reading would indicate the correct fuel/air mix and this was a serious omission. The main reason for carbonising is excessive fuel or insufficient air and none of this was even considered in the report!

 

The last report after running on white diesel states that there was a build up of carbon but was not in the opinion of the Webasto engineer unusual due to the amount of running time sustained (two months only!) and was not (at that time) effecting the burners functionality. I conclude from this that it is considered normal by Webasto engineers for a burner with no white deposit and also on white diesel, to carbonise after a short time, therefore clearly carbon build up cannot be related to sulphur.

 

The engineers clearly have not distinguished between the carbon build up created with the inefficiencies of starting this type of burner and the running inefficiencies of a maladjusted burner. They claim there was a clear noticable difference between the two burners (the pictures do not show that) down to amount of white residue present (there is no indication that this light suface deposit caused any carbon to form and then build up over the glow pin). They claim that this white deposit is an indication of excessive amounts of sulphur (sulphur is mainly yellow) or other unknown properties within the diesel (they don't know what it is!) that are known (news to me, evidence?) to cause excessive wear (what wear, it's carbon?) of the burner.

 

It is quite clear to me that these "engineers" were only installers and had no knowledge of combustion, why would they, there are no adjustments required? All the settings for correct fuel and air are preset at the factory which is fine provide quality control is consistant and the installation meets and remains within the design parameters for airflow, exhaustflow, fuel delivery and operating voltage. This type of burner will carbonise when starting but this should burn off in normal use, there should be no carbon deposits in normal running. If the burner starts and stops frequently it will build up carbon, if the fuel/air mix is too rich it will build up carbon and require frequent servicing, in this case every two months.

 

The causes of this failure in my opinion have nothing to do with sulphur from the same quality fuel that we all get but all to do with inefficient combustion and the cause would not be difficult to find. The lack of fine control of fuel and air prevents some burners from running at their optimum efficiency in varying installations. If they run weak they simply run cleaner but less efficient but running rich has the opposite effect so the correct mixture is critical which is consistant with any diesel or kerosene burner.

[Paul Sylvan]

Paul has sent me scanned pictures of his burner, they are not brilliant but sufficiently clear to see carbon build up on both burners. The one running on the boats supply for two to three months shows approximately one third coverage of carbon and over the glow pin. The one running on white diesel for two months shows approximatey the same amount of carbon but not covering the glow pin, sulphur has made no apparent difference! This carbon would be easy to remove when serviced and can break off and burn away in normal service provided the glow pin is not completely covered. If the burners were run for identical times it would not be unexpected, considering the amount of carbon present, for the burner to stop in a similar time. The test therefore was inconclusive. My conclusion to that is that white diesel has made little or no difference to the running efficiency on this burner installation.

 

The report states that Co2 was checked several times but does not state at all what the readings were or what the smoke reading or stack temperatures were which is required to calculate the efficiency and Co2 reading. There are no adjustments to make but the Co2 reading would indicate the correct fuel/air mix and this was a serious omission. The main reason for carbonising is excessive fuel or insufficient air and none of this was even considered in the report!

 

The last report after running on white diesel states that there was a build up of carbon but was not in the opinion of the Webasto engineer unusual due to the amount of running time sustained (two months only!) and was not (at that time) effecting the burners functionality. I conclude from this that it is considered normal by Webasto engineers for a burner with no white deposit and also on white diesel, to carbonise after a short time, therefore clearly carbon build up cannot be related to sulphur.

 

The engineers clearly have not distinguished between the carbon build up created with the inefficiencies of starting this type of burner and the running inefficiencies of a maladjusted burner. They claim there was a clear noticable difference between the two burners (the pictures do not show that) down to amount of white residue present (there is no indication that this light suface deposit caused any carbon to form and then build up over the glow pin). They claim that this white deposit is an indication of excessive amounts of sulphur (sulphur is mainly yellow) or other unknown properties within the diesel (they don't know what it is!) that are known (news to me, evidence?) to cause excessive wear (what wear, it's carbon?) of the burner.

 

It is quite clear to me that these "engineers" were only installers and had no knowledge of combustion, why would they, there are no adjustments required? All the settings for correct fuel and air are preset at the factory which is fine provide quality control is consistant and the installation meets and remains within the design parameters for airflow, exhaustflow, fuel delivery and operating voltage. This type of burner will carbonise when starting but this should burn off in normal use, there should be no carbon deposits in normal running. If the burner starts and stops frequently it will build up carbon, if the fuel/air mix is too rich it will build up carbon and require frequent servicing, in this case every two months.

 

The causes of this failure in my opinion have nothing to do with sulphur from the same quality fuel that we all get but all to do with inefficient combustion and the cause would not be difficult to find. The lack of fine control of fuel and air prevents some burners from running at their optimum efficiency in varying installations. If they run weak they simply run cleaner but less efficient but running rich has the opposite effect so the correct mixture is critical which is consistant with any diesel or kerosene burner.

 

 

Hi Terry,

 

Glad you received the Webasto burner pictures. I have just noticed on the Webasto UK website,

 

http://www.webasto.co.uk/am/en/am_marine_3364.html

 

that in relation to sulphur, Webasto UK are now saying:

 

Note: The use of fuels containing high levels of sulphur, water or other contaminants may increase the service interval required

 

Now, officially, as they say on the telly, ‘I’m confused .com!’

 

What do you think?

 

Paul

[wonderdust]

Does anyone have a decent thing to say about the Webasto marine heating system?

Edited August 30, 2008 by wonderdust

[Guest TerryL]

Hi Terry,

 

Glad you received the Webasto burner pictures. I have just noticed on the Webasto UK website,

 

http://www.webasto.co.uk/am/en/am_marine_3364.html

 

that in relation to sulphur, Webasto UK are now saying:

 

Note: The use of fuels containing high levels of sulphur, water or other contaminants may increase the service interval required

 

Now, officially, as they say on the telly, ‘I’m confused .com!’

 

What do you think?

 

Paul

 

LOL Put water in your tank!

 

If there is someone who knows what they are doing in Webasto then presumably what they meant to say was that the use of fuels containing high levels of sulphur as they always did, water that might be there, and other contaminants in your crappy tank, may reduce the service interval required because although sulphur doesn't actually make any difference, it's our excuse and we now want you to use ULSD as it contains kerosene and it will run a little better and give us less problems, as we can't figure out how to fix these problems you've been having for decades on gas oil and which we can now blame you for if you use the same fuel you always did. It's not Webasto's fault at all. Cop and out come to mind!

[Hobson]

Its pretty amazing that a company will go to court and get such awful press for the sake of a grand?

 

Wonder why the boat co didn't just offer to refund the heater or offer a discounted services/items in lieu, learn their lesson, clarify their sales pitch and move on ..

 

Muppets.

 

Besides if Webasto can't provide a clear and concise instruction for their product, the boat co. could have just counter sued as has been pointed out or simply stopped endorsing/using their products and telling all their customers exactly why! Word of mouth alone on that would be worth £££'s of advertising. Sheesh.

 

Point is they should have taken care of their business image, needs and customer care first and dealt with Webasto seperately.

 

What's the profit on a NB build for God's sake? Pretty pathetic business sense!

 

 

- Hobbs

Edited August 30, 2008 by Hobson

[Peter R]

Does anyone have a decent thing to say about the Webasto marine heating system?

 

For what it's worth, I have one, and I haven't (so far) had any problems with it (touch wood)!

 

It was purchased from BK marine, installed by myself, and runs off the main fuel tank which is filled with red diesel from whatever marina I happen to be closest to when I need to fill up.

 

However, what I see as the critical factor is that I don't live on the boat. I also have a solid fuel stove that is my main air heating source, and a twin coil calorifier for hot water (one coil for the webasto, one for the engine). Therefore, the webasto unit is only used to heat the water on days when i'm on the boat but not cruising and to put a bit extra heat into the back cabin in very cold periods or to provide a short 'heat boost' at those times of year when I need a bit of heat morning / evening but not all day and hence not worth lighting the stove. Therefore it is not run on a daily basis and when it is, only for an hour or two a day.

 

Interestingly, when I went to BK to purchase it, they specifically asked if I lived on the boat. When I said no, the reply was, and I quote - 'Good, I wouldn't sell you one if you did'.

 

make of that what you will

 

Peter

[Denis R]

Well, I took a look at the blog and dear me, there is an awful lot of invective flying about. I was somewhat surprised, as when I had an issue with my Webasto BK were very polite and helpful and from what I recall conversations with them were lighthearted and friendly; and they replaced my burner under warranty without quibble, putting me in contact with Foxton Boat Services, Sam doing the job the same day on their behalf....

Touch wood, it's been running fine ever since....

A different engineer who services Webasto did tell me that whenever he gets a Webasto in for a 'de-coke' he alters the fan speed profile away from the original factory settings to make it more 'red' tolerant.

If somebody is implying that BK Webastos are Chinese clones, I'd be mildly surprised, unless the cloning goes as far as technical data, bar code stickers and other bits 'n' pieces written in German.

[Paul Sylvan]

Well, I took a look at the blog and dear me, there is an awful lot of invective flying about. I was somewhat surprised, as when I had an issue with my Webasto BK were very polite and helpful and from what I recall conversations with them were lighthearted and friendly; and they replaced my burner under warranty without quibble, putting me in contact with Foxton Boat Services, Sam doing the job the same day on their behalf....

Touch wood, it's been running fine ever since....

A different engineer who services Webasto did tell me that whenever he gets a Webasto in for a 'de-coke' he alters the fan speed profile away from the original factory settings to make it more 'red' tolerant.

If somebody is implying that BK Webastos are Chinese clones, I'd be mildly surprised, unless the cloning goes as far as technical data, bar code stickers and other bits 'n' pieces written in German.

 

Hi Denis,

 

I noticed that yesterday, your post about 'invective flying about' was in reply to a post which has now been removed. As that post has now been removed, I presume that your 'invective post is a residue only and not a direct comment on my Webasto Nightmare Update.

 

Paul

[Denis R]

Hi Paul,

Ignore my post - yes, it referred to the now removed item where the poster referenced a blog that alleged all sorts of boorish behaviour from BK.

Mods, do you want to scrub it?

[Alastair]

I agree totally with terry about using a domestic boiler. The only valid reason *not* to use a domestic boiler is if it's output is too high for your boat.

 

Most domestic boilers are over 12kW in output, far too high for a narrowboat. Perfect for a barge.

 

I installed my own domestic boiler, which uses a Riello burner. A surveyor was onboard a few months back, doing a valuation survey. We got to talking about boat heating, and I told him what I'd installed. He said that he'd been called in to report on multiple diesel heater installations, including Webasto, Eberspascher and Hurricane. He'd seen problems with all of them. I then told him that our was very reliable, and smoke-free. He asked how smoke free - and I had to point out that he was standing next to the (deck level) flue. The boiler was on, and the only way you could tell was the noise of the fan.

 

Since then, I've had problems due to contaminated fuel. I *KNOW* the fuel is contaminated, and I know that the boiler ran without a single problem for 6 months before I started using contaminated fuel.

 

If you are having a barge built, do get it sprayfoamed. This is simply the best insulation, and works wonders in summer heat as well as for cold winters.

[Guest TerryL]

I agree totally with terry about using a domestic boiler. The only valid reason *not* to use a domestic boiler is if it's output is too high for your boat.

 

Most domestic boilers are over 12kW in output, far too high for a narrowboat. Perfect for a barge.

 

I installed my own domestic boiler, which uses a Riello burner. A surveyor was onboard a few months back, doing a valuation survey. We got to talking about boat heating, and I told him what I'd installed. He said that he'd been called in to report on multiple diesel heater installations, including Webasto, Eberspascher and Hurricane. He'd seen problems with all of them. I then told him that our was very reliable, and smoke-free. He asked how smoke free - and I had to point out that he was standing next to the (deck level) flue. The boiler was on, and the only way you could tell was the noise of the fan.

 

Since then, I've had problems due to contaminated fuel. I *KNOW* the fuel is contaminated, and I know that the boiler ran without a single problem for 6 months before I started using contaminated fuel.

 

If you are having a barge built, do get it sprayfoamed. This is simply the best insulation, and works wonders in summer heat as well as for cold winters.

 

Alistair points out that domestic boilers are over 12 KW in output but that is the minimum continuous running output. When modulating on and off with internal and external thermostats and timers the output can be as small as you like and will happily run just a few small rads or one or just hot water whenever you like for as long or as little as you like. Not a problem, you should know that Alistair!