CB Radio

[NB Willawaw]

We picked up our monthly fix of canal mags at Reading yesterday and there is a letter from Mitch Smith of the NB Soma who is advocating use of PMR446 handheld radio's for passing boats to communicate when approaching bridges, tunnel, etc.

 

We currently use these radio's for onboard communication and find them useful when mooring or locking when one of us is steering and the other at the bow 20m away. They certainly save shouting.

 

After years of there only being licenced and heavily regulated radio channels in the UK, the Radio Agency finally decided a few years ago to allocate a band of channels in a European standard licence-free radio service...

 

PMR stands for Personal Mobile Radio and 446 because the system uses the 446MHz UHF band.

 

Due to the considerable uptake of the service, PMR446 radio sets can now be bought from as little as £25 a pair. The Radio Agency requires that radios have a maximum of 500mw (1/2 watt) ERP (Effective Radiated Power) to an internal antenna. This limites range to, realistically 1/2 to 1 mile around town and up to 2 miles in open country.

 

There are eight 12.5 kHz simplex frequencies which can be used anywhere in the United Kingdom. The frequencies have been harmonised (but not necessarily authorised) for use across Europe. The channels centre frequencies are as follows:

 

1. 446.00625 MHz

2. 446.01875 MHz

3. 446.03125 MHz

4. 446.04375 MHz

5. 446.05625 MHz

6. 446.06875 MHz

7. 446.08125 MHz

8. 446.09375 MHz

 

These frequencies are shared and users may, under local heavy use conditions, experience interference and problems with sharing channels.

 

For this reason, CTSS (continuous tone squelch system) is incorporated in most radio sets as a means to prevent interference - the radio ignores all incoming signals except those that are also transmitting this CTSS sub-audible tone.

 

As a licence exempt service, PMR 446 is unprotected and the Agency will not become involved in interference or channel sharing disputes between users.

 

Obviously, these aren't a replacement for marine VHF and shouldn't be used for marine safety.

 

Going back to the NB Soma, they are suggesting that boats use Ch8 with CTSS tone 8 for calling up and Ch7 with CTSS tone 7 for communication once contact is made (to free the calling channel up supposedly).

 

Whilst we don't anticipate or desire CB madness to sweep over the narrowboating world as it did the UK road system a few decades ago, we can see a practical use. How often have you just been closing up a lock gate behind your boat when you see a narrowboat approaching on the horizon and have to wait for them to get within hand signal distance to see their intention (are you going to moor, wind or join us ?). A quick call to the effect "narrowboat approaching Garston Lock from downstream" could be a way to avoid waiting needlessly or upsetting another boater by closing the lock gate before they arrive.

Another use could be warning boats behind you of any threat of trouble at bridges with local yobs etc.

We are sure that there are lots of uses if they are used sensibly and maturely.

 

We will certainly monitor Ch8(8) on the K+A and just see if there is any take up.

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

NB Willawaw

Aldermaston

Edited April 22, 2005 by NB Willawaw

[Sam]

Do you know of anywhere where you can buy hand helf radios from which can be used on these channels?

[howardang]

Do you know of anywhere where you can buy hand helf radios from which can be used on these channels?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sam,

 

These are the ones that are being sold virtually anywhere - chandlers, garages, shops like Comet, Maplins, Currys etc etc. You can pick them up for about £25 upwards per pair. I bought three from Maplins about a year ago for less than £40.

 

Regards

 

Howard Anguish

[NB Willawaw]

Do you know of anywhere where you can buy hand helf radios from which can be used on these channels?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sam,

 

You might want to check out

 

http://www.446user.co.uk/

 

Some people are making these a hobby in themselves. It would appear that they are fitting PMR446 base stations connected to internet servers, which then act as repeater stations, effectively connecting somebody in the UK with a PMR radio capable of a range of 2 miles with somebody in Australia, also equipped with a PMR radio capable of a range of 2 miles. You can then communicate with each other for as long as you like free of charge presumerably ? Strange but true !

 

There are a lot of radio's out there on the market. I bought mine a couple of years ago when PMR446 was starting up. I bought Entel Eurowaves because they are a UK manufacturer that I've used through work for marine VHF portables and because the Eurowave has the ability to monitor a number of priority channels e.g. I now use it to monitor channels 7 and 8, so you don't miss a call if you leave the radio on the wrong channel.

 

Citizens Band Radio caught on in the early 1980's when many people bought 27MHz FM radios for their car and house. Initially, they were being used by truckers, motorists, etc quite responsibly. Quite a few elderly, housebound and disabled people started using them to keep in touch with the outside world. As the craze caught on, the channels became overloaded, with foul language and misuse. Eventually, the system just lost popularity (because of the overload probably).

 

I think the world has changed now because people have the internet, mobile phones, texting and better home entertainment. PMR446 hasn't really caught on with the masses, which is great because it is seems to be used quite sensibly on the whole and its very useful if you are trying to organise events, etc.

Also its UHF frequencies will penetrate steel work like a narrowboat, bridges, etc much better than the old 27Mhz CB frequency.

A few years ago, we organised a charity car park and were using them to find spaces for cars. A friend of mine is involved with canoe lifeguards and they use them to keep in contact when providing "covers" at sporting events.

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

NB Willawaw

Newbury

Edited April 24, 2005 by NB Willawaw

[Sam]

A few years ago, we organised a charity car park and were using them to find spaces for cars. A friend of mine is involved with canoe lifeguards and they use them to keep in contact when providing "covers" at sporting events.

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

NB Willawaw

Newbury

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cool!

 

I'm a member of a canoe lifeguard group and we use marine band radios when doing beach cover - i'm not sure if they are the same as the ones people are using on canals though!

[bottle]

Sam

 

They are not the same. These work on a different band (446) go to the link given before there is a forum. They are only to glad to give advice and you can see reports on the radios as well. Also some manufacturers/suppliers are on line.

[Sam]

Cheers,

 

I will when I have some time - but i'm busy website designing at mo!

[Sam]

Am i being really dumn or are these the radios you are on about

 

I have a pair of these but they only have channels 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 then another 8 numbers for those channels EG: Channel 1 (8) Channel 1 (2) etc...

Edited April 24, 2005 by Sam

[Sam]

So

 

When we are cruising you use channel 8 to call up and channel 7 to coommunicate... but surely this only works when you know the other boat??

 

Also... what call signs do narrowboaters use??

 

Do they us NBfreedom for example??

[NB Willawaw]

Yes this is a Motorola T5512 which is a PMR446 Radio.

 

You should have the 8 channels which I provided the frequencies for in my earlier post, but you should also have 38 not 8 CTCSS analogue tones.

 

Normally the channel number is shown as the larger number on the display and the CTCSS number is slightly smaller.

 

See the below link for more info - beware it is a 650Kb file.

 

http://www.airsys.co.uk/motorola/T5422_compare.pdf

[NB Willawaw]

Yes Ch 8 CTCSS tone 8 for calling up (like Ch16 on Marine VHF) and Ch 7 CTCSS tone 7 for working (like Ch 6 on Marine VHF).

If I could see the boat in question clearly and therefore see her name, I would call on Ch 8(8) saying "Narrowboat Freedom, Freedom this is Willawaw, Willawaw, etc".

If you can't see the boat clearly (e.g. you can see a narrowboat in the distance approaching you as you start to close the lock gate), I would say "Narrowboat approaching Woodham Lock, Narrowboat approaching Woodham Lock, are you intending to use the lock ?" or something to that effect.

 

There is no formal operating procedure on PMR446 but I would just use VHF procedures which have stood the test of time.

 

If nobody follows the suggestion of Mitch Smith and NB Soma, then I guess its not going to work and I'll just continue to use my radio's to communicate with people on or from my own boat.

 

Having seen some of the narrow canal sections and many swing bridges here on the K+A, PMR446 is ideal for use here.

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

 

 

 

So

 

When we are cruising you use channel 8 to call up and channel 7 to coommunicate... but surely this only works when you know the other boat??

 

Also... what call signs do narrowboaters use??

 

Do they us NBfreedom for example??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Sam]

Ok thanks!!

 

Do you know how many people are actualy using radios on the cut now?

[Sam]

Just looked at my radios:

 

They are T5412s do you think it would be worth buying t5512s as they have scanning capabilities (which do you use and do you know how much the cost at the mo.)

 

Thanks

Sam

[bottle]

Sam I would not update unless you really need to.

 

I have posted three images in the gallery. These are the ones i use.

 

The spec is the same (virtually) for all 446 radios but some work better than others.

 

These ones also have an FM radio (radio 1 etc) and an LED torch inbuilt. They come with

the case shown (real leather), a lanyard, earpiece with push to talk (ptt) button and mains charger. The rechargable battery is lithium/iron.

 

They are imported by TTI model no. PMR500tx one of there chaps is a member of the 446users forum.

[NB Willawaw]

Sam,

 

I don't think many people are using them in this way at present.

To the best of my knowledge, the idea and channel suggestions were only floated out in the latest edition of a canal mag. It might catch on; it might not.

Most boatowners get boats to get away from noise so I don't know how

keen people will be to use radio's.

They also have a breaker-breaker, rubber duck image that probably puts a lot

of people off in case they look stupid.

I'ne noticed that a lot of people have read this thread but few have commented, so I can only make assumptions from that.

 

Depending on what you plan to use your radio for, only you can decide whether its worth buying a new pair to get scanning.

 

The Entel model that I use can be viewed at the following link:

 

http://www.showcomms.co.uk/products.cfm?Gr...6%20Accessories

 

They aren't particularly cheap, but they are small and tough.

 

There is a review of your Motorola radio at:

 

http://www.446user.co.uk/review_27.html

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

[John Orentas]

What on earth is going on here, the thread started off by someone advocating the use of CB radio.

 

PMR446, T5412, T5512, CTC5s. Is all this a different system or are people merely reciting model numbers. There must be thousands of perfectly good CB sets out there with 30 channels, why start talking about other systems.

[bottle]

John

 

The 'system' is PMR (personal mobile radio), the wave band is 446 all the rest are

models and makes.

 

Most 'radio' have 8 channels with 38 CTC (side channels) for each of them.

 

This is a 'new' system for the whole of the europe and they do not require a licence.

 

These are not the old CB radios

Edited April 25, 2005 by bottle

[Khayamanzi]

I used to use CB years ago both mobile, house base station and hand held units. I now use the PMR radios on the bopat but see a big disadvantage with range. the quoted ranges are optimistic given perfect conditions and no brickwork, (ie. locks or bridges,) in the way. CB had a much better range and power output capabilities but as mentioned earlier has been taken over by abusive language idiots! The only 3rd option is the use of commercial radios which require a licence, (currently £60 for 3 years,) The radios are better quality and have an excellent range but are expensive, (£150 upwards and you would need a pair!!)

[John Orentas]

Andy.

 

I think the situation with CB's is a lot better than it was, I used mine last year, there are nothing like the number of foul mouthed truck drivers using them now.

[Khayamanzi]

Well given the range and power available maybe the original thread should be taken seriously. perhaps if an agreed channel was decided and boaters started using this means - I could see it being a very sociable way to meet, an emergency 'help is anyone near me', and a useful 'I'm coming up through that lock you've just shut in my face!!'

 

Not too sure about the handheld units though but good quality Base units such as Midland are available through Maplin for around £80

[Alastair]

I don't quite understand why people wouldn't use VHF. Small handhelds are cheap, have more range than pmr, and (should be) compulsory on tidal waters such as the trent.

 

£50 for a cobra unit - old, non-dsc fixed units can be picked up for similar amounts.

Sure, currently you need a ships license - erm, it's all of £20 a year. Operator courses are one day - they can be free, I was offered a place on one by the local motor yacht club, next time they have a training day (currently I have a cute little radio officer to do the work for me, ).

[Sam]

I don't quite understand why people wouldn't use VHF.  Small handhelds are cheap, have more range than pmr, and (should be) compulsory on tidal waters such as the trent.

 

£50 for a cobra unit - old, non-dsc fixed units can be picked up for similar amounts.

Sure, currently you need a ships license - erm, it's all of £20 a year.  Operator courses are one day - they can be free, I was offered a place on one by the local motor yacht club, next time they have a training day (currently I have a cute little radio officer to do the work for me, ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I see your point but then many people i think like the radios like the T5422 asb they can buy them from places like Argos.

[Sam]

Can you get a baseset radio like the VHF ones which can operate on the license free channels which the t5422 etc.. use?

[bottle]

Sam

 

All the answers are at 446user they have the experts there. As said before they link via PCs to the whole of the world.

Edited April 25, 2005 by bottle

[Sam]

Sam

 

All the answers are at  446user  they have the experts there. As said before they link via PCs to the whole of the world.

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