Kitchen work surface . . . .

[Ray]

I decided that as I really didn't want to make my own doors for the units in the kitchen we'd need to stick with standard size drawers and cupboards to ensure that we could get doors.

 

Having got this far it seemed logical (to me) that if we're having standard size doors, we might as well have off the shelf units. They ought to speed up the fitting out of the kitchen by quite a bit.

 

We did the rounds of the various suppliers locally and ended up in IKEA mainly because SWMBO realised that we'd need something that would blend in with the white goods in the kitchen and because I don't like laminated surfaces that pretend to be wood. I also think that 12mm and 15mm carcasses are two flimsy.

 

We now have the IKEA units on the boat and I've started to install them but have hit a snag. The wall sides below the gunwale aren't vertical. They slope outward from bottom to top, with the result that the units, as supplied, have a gap of about 50mm between the top of the back panel and the side wall of the boat. If I cut the back edges of the units at an angle similar to the wall side, I reckon that the work surface depth could be as little as 450mm, but I can use the wall sides as the backs of the units. If I leave the units as purchased, the work surface will probably be about another 50-75mm deep but we then have a problem fitting the back panel to the unit under the sink where the water pipes need to be to supply the taps. If we leave the backs off there is a risk that things can escape from the cupboards

 

What depth work surfaces do others have and have they encountered/overcome similar problems with their kitchen units?

 

Ray

[John Orentas]

Hi Ray.

 

It is never quite satisfactory to use standard house sized fittings in fact I always try to maintain a 5-10% rule, i.e. you should strive to reduce all dimensions by that that figure. That taper which seems common to all boat designs can be a problem, often simply solved by the use of a power saw, in the case of galley fittings you may be able to solve depth and angle problems at one go and equally up to 5-10% can be taken off the height.

 

You may find that the backs of drawers need to be modified too. Taps can be a big problem, you may find that you need to bring them forward to give clearance from the gunwales and 'standard' sinks are often just out of scale, I remember spending a long time sourcing a 'boat sized' one.

 

What I am really getting at in the above is that nothing is ever simple, many dimensions are imposed on you by the measurements of the cabin, even bought in stuff inevitably needs a good deal of redesign.

[Jus73]

Hi Ray

 

Not sure about Ikea units but B&Q units have a 50-75mm overhang at the back for service pipes. This gap sits behind the hardboard back of the cupboard, therefore when cutting the angle to match the cabin sides, the internal dimensions of the cupboard remain unchanged. To match the back of the cupboard to the slope of the cabin side the majority will be sawn off at the bottom and taper back in towards the standard 600mm depth at the top.

 

As John has said another problem area can be the gunwale this can take up about 75mm usable depth. I use two steel bowls which take up less worktop depth than a standard sink and drainer and allow a tap to be installed away from the gunwale.

 

Just.

[David Schweizer]

Hi Ray.

 

It is never quite satisfactory to use standard house sized fittings in fact I always try to maintain a 5-10% rule, i.e. you should strive to reduce all dimensions by that that figure. That taper which seems common to all boat designs can be a problem, often simply solved by the use of a power saw, in the case of galley fittings you may be able to solve depth and angle problems at one go and equally up to 5-10% can be taken off the height.

That, as my wife would say, is a man's response. When I refitted the galley on our boat my wife decreed that she was not prepared to put up with silly little sinks, narrow work surfaces and toytown taps, so we have standard size units and work surfaces, albeit built by myself rather than bought in. And she was correct, it is so much easier to work in a galley that has properly proportioned facilities, rather than faff around with unsuitably small work areas, etc.

[ChrisPy]

I mounted 4" wide timbers under the gunwales, just below worktop height, screwed to the face of the side stiffener angles of the hull shell. These carry the 240V cables (over) and gas pipe (under) and space the units away from the side wall at the top.

[Moley]

The wall sides below the gunwale aren't vertical. They slope outward from bottom to top, with the result that the units, as supplied, have a gap of about 50mm between the top of the back panel and the side wall of the boat. If I cut the back edges of the units at an angle similar to the wall side, I reckon that the work surface depth could be as little as 450mm

 

Is it just me that doesn't understand the question?

 

You're cutting a taper with 2 inches or so off the bottom to zero at the top, so the top dimension and the worktop are unchanged.

 

I used standard B&Q flatpack carcasses with regular domestic sized worktops and sink, and even with that 2" taper there is still sufficient clearance behind the slide-in white hardboard cupboard backs for the plumbing and wastes.

 

One thing to remember, assuming your boat's slightly higher at the bows, have the draining board on the uphill side (like wot I didn't ) as water tends to drain downhill for some reason.

[RobinJ]

I decided that as I really didn't want to make my own doors for the units in the kitchen we'd need to stick with standard size drawers and cupboards to ensure that we could get doors.

 

Having got this far it seemed logical (to me) that if we're having standard size doors, we might as well have off the shelf units. They ought to speed up the fitting out of the kitchen by quite a bit.

There are companies that make doors and drawers to any size, colour and pattern (quite cheap too). I ended up making the units from scratch as many of the dimensions were not standard!. Hinge cutter and a router are extremely useful, cam locks, feet, hinges and drawer runners are freely available.

You need access to the gas joints and valves for the BSS (mine run along the gunwhale), so backs are not important (provided it is already lined). You will have to cut the end panels to fit the shape (especially if like mine it included the swim), but the other important thing is to make sure the shelves are secure (screw in or recess the brackets). A lip on the shelves also helps.

[John Orentas]

Much as I dread the repercussions of this but boats don't really require doors in the galley area (yes, narrowboats can still have the feel of a boat). Just build in fiddle rails to prevent things falling out. Gives an incentive to keep tidy too.

[David Schweizer]

Much as I dread the repercussions of this but boats don't really require doors in the galley area (yes, narrowboats can still have the feel of a boat). Just build in fiddle rails to prevent things falling out. Gives an incentive to keep tidy too.

Repercussion coming up

 

When we first bought our boat the galley did not have doors, just fiddle rails, and everything got covered in dust. One of the other requirements my wife insisted upon was sensibly sized cupboards with sensibly sized doors.

 

We wanted raised fielded panel pine doorsI and I would have made them myself, but discovered that I could buy ready made doors from Wickes for less than the timber to make then would cost. and they have proved to be ideal.

 

Unfortunately they do not sell the pine doors any more, but they do stock some very nice white Shaker style doors, which look equally well made and are very reasonably priced.

 

Oh and by the way we still need fiddle rails on the shelves, otherwise everything slides to the front of the shelf, and falls on the floor when we open the doors.

Edited August 28, 2007 by David Schweizer

[Mac49]

I'm using ikea wooden worktops beacause they're a pretty good price and the come in a few different sizes one being just over 6ft which is the size of my kitchen so there's next to no waste. On the side with the cooker i've moved the worktop out a few inches (and filled the gap under the gunwale] so i could use a house sized hob and moved the worktop in on the other side. Also im using narrow doors to make access a bit easier.

Rick

[StoneHenge]

We fitted our kitchen out using off the shelf B&Q units. Where there was a difference at the back (because the gunnels slope) we attached to the sides of the units which were exposed with 15mm oak ply, which we cut to shape to match the slope under the gunnel's and attached it to the sides. That includes one sink unit, and one double unit the other side for storage with a standard worktop.

 

Then tiling and fire retardant board round the cooker, two dividers of oak ply, tiled, and it all fitted in really well. Gives us a useful worksurface one side and we just used the existing sink which was in fair nick anyway.

 

Cheaper than paying a man! We were quoted around £3,000 for the job we did for around £1,500 (including all tiles, tools, adhesives etc).

[David Schweizer]

I'm using ikea wooden worktops beacause they're a pretty good price and the come in a few different sizes one being just over 6ft which is the size of my kitchen so there's next to no waste. On the side with the cooker i've moved the worktop out a few inches (and filled the gap under the gunwale] so i could use a house sized hob and moved the worktop in on the other side. Also im using narrow doors to make access a bit easier.

Rick

May I suggest you check with the BSS office that wooden worktops are accptable. From recollection vertical surfaces immediately adjacent to the cooker must be of a non-combustable material. All this may require is a piece of laminate, or metal attatced to the edges of the worktop, but it will be better to find out now rather than have your pride and joy fail it's next inspection.

[Mac49]

May I suggest you check with the BSS office that wooden worktops are accptable. From recollection vertical surfaces immediately adjacent to the cooker must be of a non-combustable material. All this may require is a piece of laminate, or metal attatced to the edges of the worktop, but it will be better to find out now rather than have your pride and joy fail it's next inspection.

 

Cheers David, you've got me a bit worried now, i'll give the surveyor a ring, i'd assumed as they were ok to fit a gas hob into in a house they'd be ok on the boat but i suppose that doesn't necessarily follow...

[ChrisPy]

there is no such specific BSS requirement. the inspector should check for signs of scorching.

 

however the ISO that is recommended practice sets clear standards generally as follows:

 

imagine a cylinder shape 300mm radius and 700mm tall centred over each burner. In that zone (including the base level with the burner) there must be no hanging fabrics, curtains, etc. and all materials must be fireproof or insulated if they will suffer a surface temperature of 80C during a heating test. The test simulates a pot placed on the burner at full flame. It requires a metal plate 200mm diameter and 3mm thick to be placed on each of the burners and the burners put on full flame for 10 minutes. I bought a surface themometer off ebay so I could do the test.

 

Also anything within a smaller radius of 150mm has to be intrinsically fireproof (glass, ceramic or metal).

 

I think that most hobs are wide enough to meet the second requirement. the first may be more difficult to meet, and may preclude a hob set directly into a wooden worktop, but if you ensure there is no sign of scorching it should pass muster at BSS inspection.

[Mac49]

there is no such specific BSS requirement. the inspector should check for signs of scorching.

 

however the ISO that is recommended practice sets clear standards generally as follows:

 

imagine a cylinder shape 300mm radius and 700mm tall centred over each burner. In that zone (including the base level with the burner) there must be no hanging fabrics, curtains, etc. and all materials must be fireproof or insulated if they will suffer a surface temperature of 80C during a heating test. The test simulates a pot placed on the burner at full flame. It requires a metal plate 200mm diameter and 3mm thick to be placed on each of the burners and the burners put on full flame for 10 minutes. I bought a surface themometer off ebay so I could do the test.

 

Also anything within a smaller radius of 150mm has to be intrinsically fireproof (glass, ceramic or metal).

 

I think that most hobs are wide enough to meet the second requirement. the first may be more difficult to meet, and may preclude a hob set directly into a wooden worktop, but if you ensure there is no sign of scorching it should pass muster at BSS inspection.

 

 

Thanks, i've had a look round on the internet for some professionally fitted boats with wooden worktops and found a few so there must be way round it. I think i'll start a new thread cos I might be going away from Ray's question.

Cheers Rick

[ChrisPy]

Thanks, i've had a look round on the internet for some professionally fitted boats with wooden worktops and found a few so there must be way round it. I think i'll start a new thread cos I might be going away from Ray's question.

Cheers Rick

hmm...... I wonder if the RCD certificate is valid in such cases. fitting of gas hobs should comply with ISO-9094 to claim a declaration of conformity.