blodger

Sounds like a modern alternator/regulator probably of reasonable amps not in need of augmenting with a battery boiler however batteries though newish sound as though in need of a good charge followed by an equalisation charge to overcome some sulphation and restore capacity. Seems something, four step charger/genny, is needed or has to be borrowed to achieve this and see if it improves the situation? As in past threads and as per Smartguage site some alternators lend themselves to easy modification to switch in a diode or two to up the charging voltage and do an equalisation. If feasible its far cheaper than going the adverc/sterling route and, if you use it when needed, you are not battery boiling all the time!

Don't know where its stems from but "decals" are what some labels are sold as on Ebay; Usually cut vinyl as above.

Why would you want to do that. It's a nice cruise!

There seem to be a lot of them around not working. I do not think they are easy to adapt to say driving an alternator. I hope somebody has been able to re-use and will let us know here. Despite the failure might be worth getting another as you have a spare engine?

Oh and I nearly forgot, an Ecofan also takes the kettle space from the stove, so more gas being used I have chained mine to the flue to stop it jumping off in locks etc. I too like to keep a kettle on the boil on the stove when lit. It means that the Ecofan is probably not at the optimum angle for what it can do. Hence, looking at other things as you have. I use computer fans to to circulate air to the back of the fridge, when the water pump is on & also to draw air from under the cooker, over the water pump by separate switch, in case of the odd leak, etc.

There are quite a lot of Elsans/Sanitary Stations unsuitable not because of some NOTICE affixed but because the length of hose needed is impracticable. I have yet to work out how to adapt a SPO kit other than to shorten the hose and have a reducer at the end to discharge into a plastic 25ltr drum to do likewise when need be.

It's the Harecastle Tunnel effect!

Not to detract from what Justme has posted:- 12 & 24v immersion elements are available, used for dump loads, for the wind and solar market. I would have thought it made sense to directly connect solar panels thereto than store power in batterries and or invert it to 240v ac to use 240 element currently fitted. If I had thought ahead when I had to replace the calorifier I should have replaced the 1kw 240ac element with a 12v maybe. I got a 1/2kwatt one that the inverter/batteries could handle easier intending to fit it but it came to late. I suppose you only want the hot water when using the boat but it would only be a matter of switching instead to trickle charging?

That's an interesting viewpoint but note the smiley. I do not liveaboard but have kitted out so we could. Thinking about it extra charges could only be justified if more or better provision were actually made. Improvements that have been made are usually in the vicinity of BW moorings, shower & washing machine facilities eg, which in effect the moorers are paying for and sharing with passing boats not so equipped. In some ways I see the residential cc boaters as the remnants of past working boats and the weekend gin palaces as interlopers. I think then that it might be more appropriate to have pure leisure users shoulder more cost. Hang on a minute, let's be fair and charge everybody the same and not penalise one fraction of users!

The selling point of the Ecofan surely is that it automatically works whenever the stove does with nothing to switch on or off and no further cost beyond its purchase? It does have some impact in sustaining the climate created some time after stove lighting though as you say not easily detectable but its costing nothing so what the heck. As Nick is intimating there are ways possible to improve on it with some thought and experimentation. Much of the heat is stored at and dissipated from above head level so it makes sense to try and utilise it better? Fanning from the top of the stove may not be the best way of warming from deck to deckhead evenly and as has been said a small fan cannot propel the heat from front to back much. Roger Gunkel is right methinks that a better undertanding of thermal mechanics or something is needed to understand how small things can achieve a lot in this area. Anyway my thoughts are on how to avoid cool feet while the head is hot without using more fuel or cooling the fire by blowing at it. Nick is looking more to transferring 'surplus' heat elsewhere for a similar effect (which may only be easily done in a new build?).

I do not know whether this work around would help my Lister LWPS3 lift pump that seems to work on gravity feed until the tank is 1/2 full. I have not attempted any repair as yet. Like the idea of having a back up remedy should it go pear shaped/ be unsolveable. I'll do some googling on Facet but I presume that adding the "Facit" in line perhaps by a diversion fuel line loop is what is required along with a live ignition feed?

Thanks, I understood that and agree with you that they are not as effective as they are made out to be and further, different configurations would affect. Even so, I voted that they made some difference rating them above a mere expensive novelty. Possibly the same or better effect could be achieved cheaper with a simple fan but at the cost of battery drain to do so, was all I was saying. Results will be similarly variable?

That is another factor that does not invalidate the assertion. It only mitigates upon and does not negate on the point I was making. Agreed, it does have to be taken into account. Do not know to what extent but have you taken into account all the rinsing out of cassettes that goes on which dilutes concentration since it goes down the same hole!

Have you considered sticking an old alternator on it for 12v dc charging?

I have the 90.00 previous version. They are not as economical as stated (by up to 1/2) . the charging lead is only for a low capacity 12v battery. They run a couple of 20amp 3step chargers into the battery banks though it can labour if they are over discharged. Good value for the money. Some will say get bigger. I got so I did not have to lug around a 2KW B&S 4 stroke. It can be temperamental starting if not used frequently which I do not, being a 2 stroke maybe. I am experimenting with a lawnmower generator with battery boiler so that I can do equalisation charges. I mention because they have good amps output contrasted with using chargers. Downside is noisier. The Power Craft is noisy relative to the Honda suitcase jobbies. Most find gennies irritating whether quiet or not so quiet. Fear of offending others seems to be a major reason for getting a more expensive one.

I did not think it was me that was hung up on the rules. Unless there is some sort of penalty I see it as guidance which is only any use if it is sensible and reasoned! In suggesting some sort of poll I was hoping to end my involvement in this thread but at least some concencus seems to be emerging from the bias. A part of the law of physics is that with more boats there's more crap on the canal and it has to go somewhere. It is fortuitous for BW then that pump-outs came into being to relieve the pressure on it Elsan Points. However, if dissatisfaction with pump-outs for whatever reason means more boats reverting to Elsans and in any case it seems the system will eventually have to be overhauled and upgraded. So, in the interim it seems logical to me and I will be happy provided that SPO is not proscribed where it does not have to be for the practical reasons to do with the inherent limitations of the outdated provision. Regards

I can only concur while not agreeing! Re- your edit:- I was suggesting an expansion of your test that I thought would negate it somewhat as a test of the ecofan. That is a better fan would have negligible affect also. As to my tests. When the ecofan we had died the difference was sufficiently noticeable for us to replace it despite its excessive cost. I would not encourage someone to buy one based on the sales pitch. I think they are useful for what I have stated but are overpriced for that. Incidently, I have recently EBay bought a 12v fan to experiment with to see if I could augment the Ecofan effect but have not been able to try it out yet. Hence, your tests interested me but do not go as far as I intend eventually. I suspect the fan will be more efficient at cooling in summer and as said, warming the boat through on stove light up. Unless you tell me differently, that is!

The circulation and evening of temperature has already happened. In my view, the fans are most proficient when the stove is lit on a cold boat. They do not do (as) much once the temperature gradient through the boat is established, other than help indicate how much heat the stove is throwing out, that is.

No, they are obeying the rules albeit a re-interpretation. Some while back it was postulated that SPOs would have, in order to comply, SPO into a container and mt at each Elsan on route. In doing so, they are doing what cassetters do. If Elsans cannot cope therewith some upgrade would seem to be needed. People are removing pump-outs and reverting to bucket & chucket for multi-various reasons. If SPO is to be illegalised I would consider doing so! etc, etc

Perhaps a further test would be to mount a normal mains or 12 volt fan in as close a proximity as the ecofans were and see if that made a difference. I suspect it would not as the job the ecofans/fans do has already been done?

The ecofan poll will I think result in more Ecofan sales. Would a poll(s) allied to this thread be useful to at least gain more information? For example One for cassette users asking about their happiness to share their Elsans with SPOers tied to asking what improvements would make it feasible if it is not. One for pump-out boats asking if they have SPO whether they would like to, whether they use it, the obstacles to doing so, what improvements are needed, etc Need not as usual be scientific, might be helpful if locations where SPO is OK can be identified, etc I am guessing that very few have invested in SPO but more would (with boating getting more expensive) if it were not, it seems to me, discouraged/held in horror. Since I seem to be championing SPO perhaps someone with different views and someone who can will set up a poll that illuminates on the debate here?

Thanks for your clarification of your understanding. I presume though that you are only talking about sceptic/settling tank Elsans and not those mains sewer connected. I see no reason why the latter should be 'unsuitable for SPO' noticed just for conformity/standardised rules reasons as seems to be being suggested. That would be/is a step too far by BW that is unfair and discriminatory and possibly smacks of protection of its marina/electric card PO sideline interests methinks. I am with SUEB in terms of capacity increase to accomodate SPO if practical. I am with Alan Fincher in terms of we need a national guide to Elsan & PO availability and where SPO is OK, etc, so that the facts therein rather than disparate opinions and the cassette versus pump-out conundrum informs. It is a pity that BW does not contribute to fora such as these to nip in the bud any misconceptions that may arise from time to time and here in respect of their stance on SPO!

To clarify, I said that BW should not change its rules 'willy nilly' by which I mean not without (for) good evidential reasons and these days, after consultation. I have not grasped how to insert quotes but I was looking back through this thread. You expressed a view that more SPOing rendered Elsans no longer suitable for SPO hence the withdrawing them from that availability. Is this mere conjecture or have you reached that conclusion on the basis of some knowledge? Mayallid seems quite clear that 'suitable' Elsans have been made 'unsuitable' by the simple affixing of notices to that effect. I cannot comprehend why an increasing SPO use renders SPO unsuitable or has moved BW to append such notices though I obviously take on board that Elsan Points were not designed for SPO and leave much to be desired in that direction without repeating previous posts. Is it just successful lobbying by cassetters?

I do not worry too much about the hostility; You seem to get it anyway if the water tank takes too long to fill! If the tank is pretty empty and/or pretty low water pressure I have done the self pump-out and stowed it away again concurrently! Hence, I do not think SPO is as irritating at Sanitary Stations as is being made out.

I have nothing against thunderboxes; that's what I had on my old Springer. This boat has a pump-out which is fine but I do not like being ripped off to empty it. BW's pump-out facilities used to be reasonable but they have hiked the charges so as not to be in competition wuth their own and other marinas. On this thread I am defending self pump-out as an option. I was stuck for a period with gearbox failure with an overflowing toilet/pump-out fermenting in hot weather. I bought a basic SPO manual kit thereafter because I never wanted to be stuck that way again. It is worth carrying it around for that eventuality in my view. Naturally, I had hoped that in time the 200.00 or so cost would be recovered by not having to be dependent on Marina PO. However, the opportunities for SPO are few and far inbetween and the odd occasion I have been able to use it one does encounter hostility from other services users, mainly cassette emptiers strangely, that it does not impede anyway other than my boat is where it has to be for hose connection. It is also a struggle to find effective tie places for restrait ropes in the cubicles so that the operation can be clean, safe & single handed. Again, BW could help there if it wanted to. I hope BW monitors this site for ideas to improve its performance and customer satisfaction. I wonder what will rteplace lock bollarding?