nicknorman
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Posts posted by nicknorman
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14 minutes ago, GUMPY said:
Why would anybody use a public shower / toilet.
Standing in a shower where the previous user has verrucas.
Sitting on toilet seat where the previous user has diarrhoea.
Not for me thanks I will use my own facilities.
As for launderettes ACS produce a comprehensive list 🥱
"I got a caravan instead" -so if you go to a caravan site, do you not use the facilities there?
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31 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:
It's the other way round. VA can only equal W for unity power factor (purely resistive loads) . For power factors less than than unity, VA will always be greater than W.
Domestic customers normally only pay for actual power, so PF doesn't concern them. Industrial customers usually pay for VA, so it is in their financial interest to get their PF as close to unity as possible.
Not too sure who you are disgreeing with! But anyway whilst what you say in second para is true for on shore systems, for boats it is more about the maximum current that the inverter can chuck out (internal resistance of the wiring, semiconductors etc) that can be limiting with a poor power factor. I think these days low PF is only likely to occur transiently, eg a vacuum cleaner starting up.
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39 minutes ago, Richard Houlgate said:
One potential installer is keen to use the Victron Easy Plus Compact 12/1600/70, I suspect because he understands it as he has one on his boat.
The Technical data gives
So I suppose that when on shore power it would transmit 3000w.
When on battery it would give a continuous 1600w, but peak would go up to 3000w (depending on the batteries). Or am I wrong?
No the 3000w is the short time inverter overload power (a second or two, probably). And 1600va continuous. Not watts! The continuous power is 1300w (or 1200w if it’s hot).When on shore power the transfer limit is specified in amps, not power. And is normally more than 16A
11 minutes ago, Richard Houlgate said:Power Factor - ouch!
This seems an easy explanation http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/watts_4.html
So if the PF is 0.9 and the cleaner is rated at 1500va it would actually take 1667 watts of power. Or did I misunderstand. (Thinks: A level Physics was 55 years ago!)
No the power is the power. 1300w continuous. If the PF is 0.9 then the current is more than might be expected for that power. As the power factor gets worse the output current increases without any increase in output power. So when you multiply the current by the voltage you might get up to 1500. 1500va, not 1500w! If the PF is even worse then the 1500va becomes the limiting factor and max continuous output power will be less than 1300w.
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Just now, magnetman said:
I've never had a shower.
We know!
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Victron are top of the tree in terms of interconnect-ability (system integration) and remote monitoring. Most of their stuff is “open source” which gives them a lot of brownie points in my eyes.
If you are technicall minded you can run their Venus OS on a raspberry pi and get something like the Cerbo on the cheap. https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2017/09/06/raspberry-pi-running-victrons-venus-firmware/
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33 minutes ago, frangar said:
So you don’t want CRT’s income to increase yet you want them to keep all the facilities they have….how are you proposing to fund this in a time of rising costs for everything from energy to heat the water to repairs when they are misused?
In a perfect world I don’t want to lose boater facilities either and indeed I’m continuing to fight to keep at least some where possible but if it comes down to fixing a shower or a lock so I can travel the system then I’m afraid the lock wins.
So it’s important that there is a lock on the shower door, but not whether or not the shower works? One has to wonder what you like to get up to in a shower!
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2 hours ago, Richard Houlgate said:
I've had two suggestions made
Victron Easy plus compact 12 1600 70
Sterling Pro Combi 2500w.
presumably the Victron would be underpowered.
Is the Sterling any good?
I'm confused by Victron, there is the EasyPlus Compact and the Multiplus, which is best to go for?
Personally I would avoid Sterling, rather old fashioned and some of their products use a lot of power just being on and doing nothing.The EasyPlus compact is a new one on me, but it looks like it has a consumer unit built in. And it is consequently more expensive. Presuming you already have a consumer unit on the boat then the extra cost doesn’t seem worth it. I would go for the Multiplus 2000va
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I’d go for the 2000va version. Vacuum cleaners can be pretty savage on their startup current.
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5 hours ago, robtheplod said:
does this give better info?
Yes, 18w for the telly and 60w for the Roku gives you plenty of headroom on a 120w supply
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On 09/11/2023 at 16:28, robtheplod said:
Hi All
I hope someone can help/confirm (or rip apart) my thinking here......
I'm finally upgrading my TV/Streaming box on the boat, mainly to get better sound using a Roku Soundbar. I've gone for devices that have 12v DC inputs but come with 240v mains adapters to make things as simple as possible. I'd like these to run off 12V rather than 240v.
The TV (monitor) is 12v 4A 18w requirements
The Roku is 12v 5A 60w requirements
I'm thinking getting a 8-40V to 12V 10A DC Voltage Stabilizer 120W which I'm thinking supplies enough juice to power both the above, so 12V input from the boat and both the above connecting on the output.... is this wise/sensible/possible!
the item is 8-40V to 12V 10A DC Voltage Stabilizer Car Power Supply Regulator Waterproof JP | eBay
any flaws in my plans???!!
rob
Something not quite right with the figures, Tv 12v 4A is not 18w!
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7 hours ago, captain flint said:
I've just discovered my water pump is leaking (weeping plastic seam when the pump runs)
Obviously I need a new one.
Question: could this have been caused by the pump now receiving more like 13V from my new LiFePO4 battery system? And if so am I likely to have the same issue with a new pump?
Since having the new battery system installed, the pump has sounded like it's got more power going through it, higher revs type sound, and a faster flow out of the taps. I don't want to get a new one and find the same problem recurs.
Also, the floor around the pump is sodden and mouldy. I have a dehumidifier I can run and hopefully dry it out but is that going to work or do I need to think about chopping it out and replacing it (if that's even possible)?
Not my favourite day on my boat I must confess.
Perhaps more likely is that it's just wear and tear on a fairly old pump and any decent new 12v pump should be OK? 🤞
Not related to the Li batteries, just an old and knackered pump.-
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4 hours ago, Bernie the Bolt said:
90 + amps - voltage = 13.1 ( just after starting b4 TP engaged )
44 amps - voltage = 13.7 ( after TP engaged )
10- 20 amps - voltage 13.85 tp 13.95
Either you are dropping a lot of voltage in the wiring, or the alternator is faulty. We need to know the voltage at the alternator terminals to distinguish between these two scenarios.
2 hours ago, magnetman said:I did not read the whole of the thread after this. Was it established that there are no battery isolators in this circuit under discussion?
it was not established either way. -
5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:
I am curious, does not the Travelpower have to feed a battery charger to be used to charge the batteries? If so, is the battery charger output higher than the alternator regulator setting and is therefore causing the said regulator to reduce the charging from the alternator?
Why use both together when one would suffice?
To charge faster as Tony says. The regulation curves on both the Victron and the alternator are quite soft and so they will share the load unless the set voltages are way out. I do this sometimes when I want to charge fast - the Iskra, once it has settled down at 90C is limited by my controller to around 125A. The Mastervolt Combi I have set to limit at 60A so I can put in 185A without overheating either device.
But if I start from cold and whack up the Mastervolt current limit to 100A, I could put in 285A. The Li will take that without breaking into a sweat, the voltage will still be down at around 13.5v
2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:I would expect one regulator to fight the other like a solar regulator fights an alternator regulator.
That is a myth. It doesn't happen.
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I think you need to withdraw from the forum to cool down for a while.
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1 minute ago, M_JG said:
I would just point out MTB wasn't actually a paying or even a potential customer.
Just the annoying voice on the sidelines shouting 'ow much! I wouldn't be paying that'.!
True. My point is that the seller’s (over) reaction has impeded his chances of selling it.
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1 hour ago, M_JG said:
But why do some people feel the need to point this out when somebody is trying to sell something? Do they think it will enhance the chance of a sale?
It just marks people out as a bit of a 'know all clever clogs'.
You could jus as well apply the comment to ignore it and carry on' to MTB's obviously unwanted interference.
I agree but then again not everyone is as perfect as you or me! MtB’s post wasn’t helpful and nor was it intended to be, but then again it was fairly harmless. And one should remember that as the seller, “the customer is always right” and entering into a pointless and aggressive public argument is not going to help sales. -
You over reacted big time in the original thread. You started the deleted thread with the sole intention of insulting MtB. It was inevitable that it would be deleted since it was a clear breach of the rules that you agreed to. If that is your true nature, it would be better to stay away from other people both on here and in real life. But hopefully you are just having a bad day or two.
Setting aside your bluster for a moment, no-one impugned your personal integrity or trustworthiness, though you have made a good job of letting everyone know your nature and behaviour. MtB made a comment about the price of a windlass. It reflected the fact that he, like me, considers fancy expensive windlasses to be unnecessary. That was all. If you had ignored it then we could all have carried on as usual and you might even have sold your windlass.
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2 hours ago, Brian422 said:
One Forum contributor reduced alternator pulley size so that it would produce output at lower engine speed.
If the Beta setup is the same as ours, there is no need to and in fact it would be a bad idea. The alternator can already produce about 135A at idle and this is a big load on the crankshaft bearings/pulleys/belt etc. The engine, belt etc struggles a bit with this due to the high torque load. By about 1000 engine rpm the alternator can make nearly full output. If the engine pulley was made smaller, all of this would get worse and the engine would struggle more, the belt more prone to slippage and all for naught. If the system is working properly, it is excellent and no need to tinker. If it is not working properly the correct course of action is to fix the fault rather than do stuff to disguise the fault.
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As an aside to this I would just mention that you have to be quite careful with sustained high currents. It is very easy for something with a slight resistance to get very hot! Melted battery isolators etc! I use a BDS-A latching relay as the battery emergency disconnect, it is rated at 190A at 85C ambient and 260A at 25C ambient, but it still gets very hot at 200A sustained charging current. Not sure what the margin to melted plastic is! Makes me a bit nervous so I tend to avoid charging at more than about 150A.
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You must be dropping some voltage in the wiring between alternator and batteries. I would expect the standard Iskra 175A alternator to be putting the full 175A into the Li battery without any fancy controller. Ours did, anyway.
Check the voltage between the Iskra terminals (fat red B+ wire, and casing) and again at the battery terminals with engine running at 1200 rpm and the travelpower off. I suspect there will be a considerable difference. Then it is a matter of checking voltages along the route to see at what point the voltage drop is happening. For example the alternator may route through the battery isolator whereas the Victron probably doesn’t.
The other possibility is that there is a blown diode in the alternator, this would result in reduced output voltage. So tell us the alternator terminals voltage and current when charging without the travelpower.
The only need for something like a Sterling A2B is to REDUCE the current to avoid the alternator overheating!
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Today I did a complete cycle of the 105Ah fogstar at home. This being to hopefully allow the BMS to calibrate itself properly. I discharged it at around 6A and it ran on for quite a while below 0% SoC before low voltage cutout at 2.75v / cell. Voltage split was not a lot (unfortunately someone phoned me at the wrong moment so not exactly sure what it was). Put it straight on to charge using the Fogstar 40A charger. Which does actually charge at 40A up to at least 50% SoC, but the fan is REALLY noisy! Anyway it's just hit 105Ah / 100% on the App but still 24A going in so clearly the capacity is a bit more than 105Ah. I noticed previously that the high voltage cut out is set to a conservative 3.6v.
Oh and cell balance "up the knee" at 3.595v is max 5mV split which is pretty good.
App is still saying 105Ah though, not sure if it would adjust itself to the actual capacity it discovered when I cycled it. Seems not.
It is still incredible, for someone used to LA batteries, that with the SoC at 5% it is still chucking out 12.8v at 6A discharge. Definitely a bucket of electricity!
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1 minute ago, Mishchell said:
Exactly.
Hence why I am weighing options and hoping I can manage till a trusted engineer is found.
I have 2 friends, engineers born & raised around motors and when I asked them the same question 1 came back with a bitch of a job, the other oe replied...shouldn't be to big a deal 🤣🤪
I think both are right. Replacing the core is easy. Gaining access to replace the core in the confines of a boat might be a PITA!
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1 hour ago, Mishchell said:
I thought this also and I do leave it IF i can see water.
After 1 or 2 runs, check levels, and top till I can see water when needed.
Does anyone know if Kubota have engineer(s) that would come and fixor take and fix if needed?
Atm I am in a marina dealing with my loss. I am on shoreline, but need engine to get hot water, till I can sort an emmersion heater.
I looked at as best I could. I couldnt see anything. Just heard slow drip again.
I then went on line to see if manual had a location of core plugs..instead found this place 👍
I am located in Leigh
Kubota is a Japanese company so I doubt they have any engineers in the UK and anyway they just make the base engine which is used in a lot of agricultural machinery. They wouldn't know anything about boats. Beta Marine are the people who buy in the base engine and then convert it to marine use. However I don't think they really have any engineers for general maintenance. I think your best bet is to try to find a reputable marine engineer in your area. Unfortunately we are based in W Midlands so I don't know anyone in your area, but others might. There is RCR (River Canal Rescue) which has national coverage but I am reluctant to recommend them because there have been a number of adverse reports and in particular they quite like recommending a "refurbished" replacement engine, which by accounts is not in great condition. If you do go to RCR, don't let them talk you into a replacement engine!
By the way, you talk about refilling with water - maybe you didn't mean "just water" but be aware that you need the correct amount of antifreeze not just for anti-freezing, but for corrosion protection as well. On the other hand no point in pouring in antifreeze if it is just going to pour out again! I guess it may not matter too much for a short period, but you don't want to leave a very weak solution of antifreeze in the engine for too long.
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12 minutes ago, magnetman said:
I know this but as I said on a canal boat domestic battery bank the weight is irrelevant. People have had Lead Acid batteries for decades nobody every complained about the weight.
Even for a propulsion bank it would work as most canal boats have weight deliberately added to submerge the propeller.
You do have a bit of a thing about LTO. The main disadvantage apart from those already mentioned, is the big range of voltage during discharge, compared to the very flat voltage profile of LFP. And it is difficult to get an integer number of cells that gives a voltage compatible with 12v systems.
Compare the flatness of LFP
with the unflatness of LTO
With LFP, 4 cells gives you from 13v to 12v over pretty much the full discharge range.
With LTO if you have 5 cells it is 13v to 10.85v - too low. And with 6 cells it is 15.6v to 13v - too high. And just too much variation to be useful.
C&RT License Survey
in General Boating
Posted
Regarding your big question, what is the source of your data that CCers only last an average of 1.5 years?
But I think the main point is that CRT are not interested in whether living as a CCer is a ”great deal” vs living ashore. They are only interested in balancing their books and getting a fair income for services and maintenance costs generated. Remember that most marina based boats end up paying CRT far more than a CCer even with the surcharge. And the other point is that lots of CCing boats do not have people living aboard, they are simply storing their boats on the towpath when not in use because it is cheaper than paying for a mooring.