Pluto

I think they are manned because of vandalism and trouble with the local youths. Even in the seventies, they were a bit of a magnet for children off the local estate. When working single-handed, I just let lots of water down and flooded the lock sides which seemed to keep them at bay, though I did take the time to chat with them as well. Historically, this length always had plenty of water, given the amount that was necessary to operate the five-rise.

Bertola da Novate was the first person to build a chamber lock in Europe, on the Canal de Bereguardo near Milan, which opened in 1458. The idea may have come from China via explorers like Marco Polo, though this has not been confirmed. Da Vinci built a canal in the centre of Milan in 1790s, which used his particular design of gate paddle, and which is illustrated in his papers. Shortly afterwards, Da Vinci was thrown out of Italy, and he came under the protection of the King of France. This may be one of the reasons France subsequently became the main location for the development of canals, with all the necessary technology used on the Canal du Midi, opened 1682. The technicalities were published in the four volumes of Architecture Hydraulique, the last volume published in 1754, when the Duke of Bridgewater was in France on the Grand Tour. He probably purchased a copy, which is well illustrated with technical drawings, and certainly visited the Canal du Midi.

I wouldn't rely upon Wikipedia as the article is based upon older sources of which most are not particularly thoughtful, repeating information which has been shown to be incorrect, and are very insular in their coverage. But then, you get what you pay for....

Going through a bridge hole at speed is not a sensible thing to do. First, narrows such as a bridge hole are where rubbish tends to collect, so keeping in gear means you are more likely to get something on the prop. Second, if you knock the boat out of gear as you enter the bridge hole, the water your prop has been pushing backwards will rush into the bridge hole, increasing the water level temporarily while you sail over anything which has become deposited in the bridge hole. As to who has priority, these days it should be down to common sense, though there doesn't seem to be much around. However, if you have slowed down for the reasons above, you should be in a better position to overcome/avoid the actions of others.

As with all such statements, you need to add a date as things changed over the years. Boaters did live on L&LC boats, but not to the same extent as on narrow canals. The numbers seem to have varied according to the economic situation on the canal, and declined rapidly at the start of the 20th century. I would have expected some MB&BC boaters to have lived on board, particularly as wide boats on the canal were larger, but similar, to narrowboats. The wide versions were called 'Statters' or 'Bastard' boats because of their size, which was around 12 feet wide by 68 feet long. However, the narrow boats on the MB&BC were day boats, usually with no accommodation, or a very simple cabin such as would not have been particularly suitable for families. Edited to add a bit more detail.

There were considerable differences between Yarwoods, Pimblotts and the Woolwich boats. Yarwoods probably produced those best liked, with the Pimblotts boats slightly more boxy and thus not as pleasant to steer. The Woolwich boats used thinner high tensile steel which increased their carrying capacity, though not their durability to wear when hitting the bottom. There were earlier iron boats, from circa the 1890s, and these may have been built at a boatyard on the Ribble, or in Liverpool. There were even more differences between wooden boats. For example, Hodsons of Whitebirk (Blackburn) built general cargo boats which could be used in the docks. These were much sturdier than the boats built at Riley Green, on the other side of Blackburn, where Crooks had a reputation for building coal boats to a much lighter specification. They also carried slightly less, but could get in to all the small mill boiler delivery sites. There was a difference between Lancashire and Yorkshire, with the latter having much bluffer bows which added a few tons to carrying capacity. I have identified over thirty boatyard sites on the L&LC, that's one every five miles, and each would have had its own particular style of boat. Wooden boats were often preferred by boatmen, as the cabins, although smaller, were warmer than on steel boats. Of course, there was always the saying - Wooden boats, iron men! Edited to add a photo from the MMBC of Mary at Scarisbrick at the MMBC moorings, possibly at the time of the 1968 IWA National Rally at Blackburn.

A variety of wooden short boats could be found at Tarleton where there was an area used for breaking them up just off the river above the lock. There are the remains of a further twenty or so further down the river, sunk there in the first half of the twentieth century as bank protection. In the 1970s, there were at least four boats sunk at Tarleton, together with the remains of a couple more in the demolition area. Tarleton Lock was designed as a half-tide lock and the stonework in the photo was for the second set of gates used to hold water in the canal. The lock gates would all be opened when the tide made a level so that it was much easier for boats to enter or leave the canal. 'Water Prince' was originally 'Humber', and is seen in this photo taken in the late 1950s at Leeds when several L&LC and A&CN boats were converted for use as hotel and restaurant boats by BW. David Lowe had her for many years as a restaurant boat at Shipley. Most of the Canal Transport boats survive, though they are now widely distributed across the canal system, as well as in Ireland and France/Belgium/Netherlands. This is my most recent list of the steel boats. Reg. No. Date Builder and notes Mersey 1573 1932, Yarwoods, 18hp Widdop, cost of hull £606, on Grand Union Lune 1603 1933 Yarwoods, now converted Calder 1604 1934 Harkers, crane boat on River Thames Weaver 1605 1934 Pimblotts, yard no 572, 24hp Widdop, fitted with hatches 1938 then deconverted, at Worsley Dee 1607 1934, Pimblotts, yard no 573, 24hp Widdop, converted, at Worsley Irwell 1608 1934 Yarwoods, fitted with hatches 1938?, converted, at Castlefields? Ribble 1609 1934 Yarwoods, unconverted, at Burscough Ouse 1610 1934 Harkers, became crane boat, scrapped Aire 1632 1934 Yarwoods, proposed to have hatches 1938, converted, on River Shannon, Ireland Nidd 1633 1934 Yarwoods, converted, in France Humber 1645 1935 Pimblotts, yard no 577, proposed to have hatches 1938, converted, at Thorne? Derwent 1646 1935 Pimblotts, yard no 578, unconverted, on Grand Union Eden 1649 1936 Pimblotts, yard no 586, bow cut off, converted Esk 1650 1936 Pimblotts, yard no 587, scrapped Wharfe 1651 1936 Pimblotts, yard no 588, converted, at Apperley Bridge Severn 1652 1936 Pimblotts, yard no 589, unconverted, based at Leigh Tweed 1659 1936 Pimblotts, yard no 593, became crane boat, scrapped Avon 1711 1947 Yarwoods, renamed Clewyd, scrapped Wye 1712 1947 Yarwoods, converted, at Leeds Kennet 1714 1947 Yarwoods, unconverted, based at Greenberfield Atherton 1725 1950 Yarwoods, 34hp Widdop Bacup 1726 1950 Yarwoods, 34hp Widdop, unconverted, at The Boat Museum, Ellesmere Port Clitheroe 1727 1951 Yarwoods, 34hp Widdop, unconverted, on Grand Union Darwen 1744 1952 Harland & Wolfe, Woolwich, converted, at Johnsons Hillock Everton 1746 1952 Harland & Wolfe, Woolwich, unconverted, on Grand Union Farnworth 1751 1953 Harland & Wolfe, Woolwich, converted, on Grand Union

The were made from the coal found under the ceiling/hold floor in Scorpio - there was about five tons. The coal was riddled twice to get anything reasonably sized, with the dust then turned into coal 'turds' by the addition of cement. I remember one of them still producing a fine thread of smoke after a week. We decided that they were endothermic, and actually made the room colder by taking in heat, rather than giving any out. Edited to say that one week a bottle of home-brew was produced which, when opened, deposited all its contents on the ceiling. Getting back on board Pluto was always a bit uncertain after an evening at No52.

I think you should read my article on the history of the Bridgewater Canal in the current edition of Narrowboat. The history of canals in Britain did not begin at Worsley; the Exeter Canal probably has a much better claim, though you do need to be very specific about what is a canal. Edited to say the Mike Webb needs to read it as well. The original route to Salford was specifically for coal, but the Duke varied the line to cross into Cheshire, resulting in Barton Aqueduct, to tap the possible general cargo on offer.

Kennet is currently at Bedford Basin, where everything is being removed from the hold. There was a work party today, and we expect to be on Worsley Dock at the beginning of August. Photos of today's work can be found on the Friends of Kennet Flikr site. One will be of interest to many on this forum, as it reflects on our Society discussions over cassette or pump out.

Droitwich, moored at Burscough, was the home of Frank and Margaret, who owned the Roland Boatel. There was also Stork at Burscough, the name of the owner escapes me at the moment, (edited to say he was called Oswald) but he had been in the RFC, and also reckoned he took the last boat up Tewitfield Locks. Chertsey was around for some of the mid-1970s as I did recover some scrap from an old pile of lock gates with Chertsey Kid, and with BW approval. There was another wooden narrow boat around, but I can't recall which one. Living on Pluto at Crabtree Lane, I became an honorary member of the Uxbridge Steel Barrel Company Boat Club, with regular weekend meetings to drink home-brew. Given the strength, I'm surprised I remember!

Mary used to moor at Scarisbrick, IIRC, and was quite old for a pleasure boat, though I don't have any further details. Someone from the Mersey Motor Boat Club should have the answer. Regarding Bursco boatmen, have you had a look at http://www.boatfamilies.org.uk/ which has been put together by the Ormskirk and District Family History Society. The Archive at Ellesmere Port also has some details of L&LC boatmen.

As Tim says, they have a tendency to slip when turning, as they have round chines so don't grip the water as much as square-chined boats do. That said, you just had to put the bow where you wanted to go, and the rest of the boat would follow as if the bow would not move sideways, the stern location being dictated by the rudder, ie. using the rudder moved the stern rather than the bow. None of the strange way that narrowboats seem to pivot around a point one third back from the bow. Empty, they can be badly affected by the wind direction, and they are easier to steer when you have a fire going in the bow cabin stove, the smoke giving an indication of wind direction. The wooden ones swam superbly, as their underwater shape at the stern was much finer than anything you will find today. Personally, I found them easier to steer than narrowboats, especially so for wooden boats.

I knew I had a photo of Murillo, seen here circa 1973. The photo is at Crabtree Lane, with Scorpio in the back ground.

No, George was a former Wigan Coal & Iron Company wide boat, seen below at Astley Green in 1971.

The main problems we have in moving the 14 feet 3 inch wide heritage boat Kennet on the L&LC are: 1. Badly designed new lock gates which have paddle gear which only allows the gate to swing back fully when the paddle is down. 2. Because the bows are not ballasted down at the moment, some crew members find it difficult to estimate their position when entering bridge holes. However, those used to wide boats don't find this particularly difficult as on a traditional L&LC boat it is quite easy to look down one side to judge your position without leaving hold of the tiller. The traditional white line around the bridge arch with the mark at the channel centre makes bridges very easy provided you have a central chimney at the bow which you just line up with the mark. One other difficulty at bridges is boats tying up too close to the bridge and not giving enough space for a wide beam boat to manoeuvre and line up for the bridge hole. It is actually against the canal bye-laws to tie up within one boat's length of a bridge, though it is a rule which BW seem to have forgotten sometimes when setting out moorings. Occasionally there is rubbish behind lock gates which causes problems, but this is quite rare. One thing which worries me about 'narrow' wide boats is that they could encourage a waterway authority to reduce their standards as there would be comparatively few full size boats. Boats the full size for a canal are not particularly difficult to navigate, and they are certainly much easier to handle in locks as there is little need for ropes - as long as you pay attention to what is happening.

BW did replace Murillo with a steel work flat. Roland was the restaurant boat at Burscough in the 1970s which subsequently was on display at Wigan. She was broken up to enlarge the car park. Juno was moored at Parbold for use, IIRC, by a Liverpool-based boys club in the early 1970s. Scorpio and George were moored at Crabtree Lane in the early 1970s, before being moved to the Boat Museum, and I lived on Pluto in the Burscough area in 1972/3 and 1975/6. This photo of Jumbo at Haskayne was taken by Edward Paget-Tomlinson in 1971. Jumbo was one of Crooke & Thompson's boats, built in 1948 and was one of two which had the larger twin-cylinder Widdop so they could tow two dumb boats. Susan was another East Lancashire coal boat, also owned by Crooke & Thompson.

On the L&LC, the last horse boat was Ainscough's Parbold which finished circa 1960.

Murillo was one of Parkes coal boats, a wooden 72 footer. When Parkes fleet was sold to BW circa 1962, she was transferred to the maintenance fleet and was the last wooden L&LC motor boat in BW service, being broken up circa 1973 IIRC. The other wooden boat at the time was the Rufford, a square transom dumb maintenance boat about 50 feet long by ten feet wide. Both worked in the Burscough area at the start of the 1970s. The Baybutts were a well-known local boating family, with Burscough being the centre for boatmen in the area.

Firstly, the canal is the Leeds and Liverpool, not the Leeds Liverpool. Please use the correct terminology in future posts. Sailing boats certainly did use the L&LC up till the 1840s, when the Stanley Dock branch was built. Coal for ships in Liverpool Docks was taken onto the Bridgewater Canal, then down Runcorn Locks, and then sailed down to Liverpool, ensuring that it only needed to be transhipped once, directly into waiting ships. In Yorkshire, goods were advertised as being delivered to Hull 'in one bottom', meaning that transhipment did not take place, and again sailing boats must have been used. However, they would have had folding or removable masts. I suspect that the masts were removed at Runcorn or Goole/Knottingley/Leeds respectively. There was a boat yard at Burscough, on the off side of the canal between Top Locks and Glovers Bridge. The yard was run by the Tyrer family, and I do wonder if they were part of Tyrer and Glovers, who were one of the two large general cargo carriers prior to 1848, when they were taken over by the canal company following railway competition. On the 1802 plans of the canal, no boat yard is shown here, but there was the drydock at Top Locks, where boats may have been built. Coastal sailing vessels from West Lancashire were usually built in the Tarleton area, and there were several yards below the present lock. If the Diamond was built at Burscough, it would have had to be small enough for the Rufford Branch locks, quite possible with a registered tonnage of 25T. Masts would then have been put in at Tarleton. As a two masted schooner, it would probably have been better known as a jigger flat, the jigger being the smaller mast at the stern. Back entries in Liverpool were once known as jiggers, with cats called jigger rabbits. One other possibility is that the Diamond was owned by a group of Burscough area residents, as there is a long history of sailing boat ownership in the area.

The old hospital used to overlook the canal, so would have been more convenient for you. I had a hip replaced there about fifteen years ago and was able to look down on the bottom lock from the ward. The hospital was founded in the mid-nineteenth century and was supported by donations, including those from the L&LC Co. On one occasion, a boatman on a steam boat at Greenberfield was scalded by a boiler tube failure and had to be rushed to Blackburn by boat - where he died.

Nidd and Comet at Skipton, probably around 1950. Sorry, but I have no more recent photos, though remember her at New Lane in the 1970s. Photography was too expensive then to record everything.

Actually, it was Germans and Poles who asked what the difference was; the French are less likely to worry what words mean in other languages.

In my travels around Europe, I have often been asked 'What is the difference between a canal and a channel'. It is a question I have never been able to answer fully as some canals are man made, as are some channels. Conversely, they can also be natural. You do have canals in your body, while some channels are dredged. The problem with English is that you can say one thing and it has three meanings, hence it is the language of politics.

You are talking about today's names. Historically, some waterways were called navigations, some canal navigations, and some canals, and it did not matter whether they were what you are calling river navigations or canals above. The official name of many navigations/canals often changed over time, with the 'Company of Proprietors of the Canal Navigation from Leeds to Liverpool and the Undertakers of the Douglas Navigation' becoming the 'Leeds & Liverpool Canal' in 1891 after the final shares in the Douglas Navigation had been purchased. The name 'Leeds & Liverpool Canal Company' had been registered earlier, in 1854.