billh
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Posts posted by billh
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In those days , most of us canal enthusiasts got only 2 sometimes 3 weeks annual leave., the exceptions being teachers and lecturers who seemed to have more holidays than work time then. So the 1976 holiday was planned in the spring and was to take place,end of July, beginning of August and limited to 2weeks. The journey was Ashton Under Lyne, just east of Manchester to London and return. The boat was a wooden motor set up as a very basic camping style, quite common then amongst the still intact carrying fleets. The crew consisted of 11 adults and one child aged about 7. One person volunteered to do the catering for the whole trip and he organised to provide a box of food a day .
We set off towards Marple, water level was well down and we could not get through the Astley Street bridge, badly stuck on the bottom. It was decided that we turn round and go via the Rochdale 9 but that was closed ,shortage of water. Long story short, we got through the Rochdale, by dint of some blagging/diplomacy of which I had no part.
Leaving the Rochdale the trip went well, to keep to time we ran 18hour days, shifts at the tiller,starting 6AM and tying up about midnight. At various lock flights certain crew members would disappear "for a swift half". We couldn't stop for them and it was up to them to catch up , I recall at least one crew member was lost for about 24 hours, he caught up somewhere south of Brum.
In general, water levels were ok till we got to the Knowle Hatton section of the GU it looked to be 2ft or more down and we crawled along what seemed to be a little channel down the middle, slow but steady progress, after that we did ok and arrived at Regents Canal dock, ship lock as it was then(very large).
One crew member was stationed on the foredeck to handle the rope from the Lockmaster. Lock emptied, gates opened to reveal a distinctly choppy and wide River Thames, there were many craft around creating a lot of wash. we turned up river, with the tide and it was then we became aware that we were mingled with a Lightermans' race . The guy on the foredeck was stuck there getting wet from spray as the boat was rocking and rolling so unsafe to use the top plank.There were a number of Thames Lighters with no power and one steerer going with the tide and it was first through Tower Bridge was the winner. We arrived just as the winner passed under the bridge, I don't know if the crowds were cheering us or the lighterman .
On past the Houses of Parliament, quite close, there were no restrictions then. Looking for the turn off for Brentford, thought we saw it so started to turn but it wasn't (Later , found it was Grosvenor Canal?) Eventually got towards the channel for Brentford, still being swept along by the tide, full power to just miss an island(?) and we arrived safely in Brentford dock.
The return journey was pretty much uneventful except by the time we got to top of Marple there was only a tin of sardines and some bread left to feed the crew , as in 5 loaves and 2 fishes. Oddly enough the caterer/cook much later went on to be a Reverend!
It was an epic trip and one which could not be done today in the timescales even if there were no water shortages. Most of the canals we used were still in reasonable nick from the commercial carrying days, locks worked properly and canal staff knew what they were about.
I wouldn't attempt it now,I'm too old and a system in much decline. Restored canals like the Rochdale and HNC have come available since 1976, but now gradually fading away again to oblivion. Lack of water, lack of money, lack of know-how. We had our fun times.
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2 minutes ago, archie57 said:
Bob Woodward lived there pre-restoration, istr he was related to John Greenway......
Ah! Very local historical knowledge is much more reliable than my less than local memory.
The foam transport was from Clarence Mill to Goyt Mill in Marple , both mills belonged to British Vita(Vitafoam?) in those days .
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The lock cottage on Station Road was , in my memory , occupied by "Rocket Ronnie" , the lock keeper. Was he the R.W Woodward ?
The nickname IIRC was a reference to him using a powerful motorbike to patrol up and down the lock flight.
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I suggest that a split pin is not the best way of securing the nut. I have experienced the ends of the pin being broken off by constant battering by rubbish on the prop and the pin then falling out. Since then I have used a Stainless roll pin (sometimes called a spring pin), pressed into the castellations of the nut and ground off flush with the sides of the nut. , never a problem since but a bit more difficult to remove at prop servicing time.
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A37 has been at Castlefield for many years. Perhaps of more concern is the boat near the viaduct in the second picture? It's the L & L short boat "Irwell" sat on the bottom despite having been re-floated more than once. I don't know if the engine is still in it , a 3(or was it 4?)cylinder RN . Happy memory of a camping boat holiday on Irwell in 1972- Leeds to Manchester at a time when she was sometimes still involved in commercial carrying. Sad to see now.
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Never mind a 4LK, this is the ultimate Land Rover power unit:
Frank Rothwell also owns Oldham Athletic F. C. and rowed the Atlantic solo at the age of 70+.
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On 13/06/2025 at 18:33, 1st ade said:
I (vaguely) remember that [ @magpie patrick is my brother, so we share the same parents... We'd both have been on the trip]
Was Uncle Irvine on that trip also? I think he would have been Deputy Head at that time. If appropriate, move to history and heritage😃
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Rochdale Canal ,Grimshaw Lane, Chadderton. A modern hydraulic lift system. I can't remember what the old bridge was like, it's about 50 years since I crossed it. The modern system does not seem to be very reliable- fancy electrical control system and miles of hydraulic pipes and fittings ready to leak at a moments notice.
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That strapping post at the lock looks suspiciously like a steam loco funnel , made of cast iron too. Some of these are still in place with a slight deviation from vertical to suit the application.
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16 hours ago, David Mack said:
And does Joel still have that iron work?
Yes.
As far as I know, it is a purely decorative feature. Reference to C&RT archive shows the same on the original Joel of 1927. (broken up ,1948). I would say it was a product of the artist in residence blacksmith at the Gorton Canal Depot . If we look around the photo shown above, we can see other features of Joel which might be considered not traditional:
The Kelvin engine's gearchange wheel tucked in to the left of the hatch , so your head wasn't damaged going into the very low cabin, necessary because of low bridges on the local canals. Who else was fitting a Kelvin in a NB in 1927 or 1948?
The round top dollies possibly unique design.
The bits of old tyre instead of dead cat rope fenders- in my experience the tyres were far more practical and long lasting than expensive hand made rope things
The rudder blade did not extend behind the counter- there's a story! The original Joel's steerer , maybe in 1930's cilled the boat and did some serious damage and so it was rebuilt with the small blade and a solid post from skeg to counter as we can just see here. Trouble was, it was awful at going round bends( I remember it well) and that feature was dispensed with in the 1980s. A more conventional blade fitted and any handling difficulties are now completely down to operator error, not the boat.😀
The cabin side writing "British Waterways" in a straight line instead of a curved arch shape. I think the gang at Gorton Depot were somewhat renegade with their interpretation of the rules sent down from London by the new nationalised canal authority. These staff were all members of a RAILWAY union
having , up to nationalisation been employed by the Great Central Railway and LNER from 1923 and there was still much interaction between the canal depot and the vast railway workshops across Cornwall Street right up to closure in 1962. Bits and pieces of locomotives and carriages got re-purposed into boats, including Joel. This practice persisted into more recent times with the fitted air horn recycled from a scrapped BR class EM1(later class76) electric loco.
The picture was taken about 75 years ago near Lumb Lane Bridge, Audenshaw on the Ashton Canal, Joel was posed again in 2011 in exactly the same spot.
The concrete drain pipes and shed in the background have been replaced by pleasant bungalows on Slate Lane.
That's enough for now, wake up at the back there!
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7 hours ago, Kingdom Isambard Brunel said:
Its fixed iron work, not a hook or strapping point. There are several rivet in it and the end of the rubbing strip which may be for some internal fixing as well.
Otherwise its decorative.
Rivets? RIVETS!!!
Tis a wooden boat with nails,spikes and cup square head bolts.
Though you're right about the decorative aspect .
The photo is about 75 years old
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Do you want a brief comment or a boring essay?
5 hours ago, agg221 said: -
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Lock 5 "Nan Fox's" . The lock keeper's house was off the towpath where the two small trees can be seen. The house was cleared away in the 1890s when there was a big expansion of the Bradford Road gas works on the left. The concrete wall defines the gasworks boundary. The building to the right was a bakery. To the right of the pound above lock 5 was the Richard Johnson wire works, steel wire was produced from billets. Canal water was used in the process and huge amounts of millscale found its way into the canal. About 1972 the Canal Society working party were engaged in excavating by hand much of this millscale from under Forge Lane bridge where mechanical excavators could not reach. A short 2ft gauge railway was laid on the towpath and tipping skips loaded and winched out of the canal bed.
This whole area of Manchester was affected by mining subsidence caused by the nearby Bradford Colliery, lock 5 had to have its walls raised in timber by about 6 inches. Lock 4 which today appears to have a drop of around 4ft is in fact the same depth as lock 5 but has buttresses at the invert. The colliery closed in 1968 because the cost of subsidence remedial work made it uneconomic. There were an estimated 300million tons of coal reserves left underground.
Anyone still awake?😃
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Well, me and others spent a while digging out that lock a couple of years before that picture was taken . You should have seen the state of it 10 years before.
It is a very familiar scene to me,I'll leave it for others less local to identify.
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1 hour ago, billh said:
Another question: On the viaduct I can see a signal post for control of Molyneux Junction and what look like overhead catenary gantries for electric trains. I am aware that various electric traction systems were tried locally, Bury, Holcombe Brook and others in the early C20th . Not aware of it here though. Any more information?
I think I can answer my own question! The L&YR electrified the line beween Manchester & Bury, but for some reason,built the power station for it at Clifton Junction on the Manchester Bolton LIne. So they needed a feeder cable from Clifton to Radcliffe on the Bury line and used the old ELR route for that cable. There might have been a plan to electrify Clifton to Radcliffe but that never happened .
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"An interesting perspective of Fletchers Canal
This view shows a boat going onto it but what was the cargo?"
Flintstone/fluorspar or similar for Pilkington's tile works?
Another question: On the viaduct I can see a signal post for control of Molyneux Junction and what look like overhead catenary gantries for electric trains. I am aware that various electric traction systems were tried locally, Bury, Holcombe Brook and others in the early C20th . Not aware of it here though. Any more information?
ETA, Limestone for the Aniline works?
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Key words: Clifton,Molyneux, Fletchers, ELR,L&YR , and Robin Hood(!)
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The starter information label should be on the outside front of the plate between the two large terminals .It may have 12v or 24v embossed on a lilttle insulated panel at the terminals in rather small characters. Also, check the connection between the copper bus bar and the back of the main terminals, round brass thing with bar slotted into it . Had one go faulty with loose connection, cured by soldering with a big iron.
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TVO allows a bit higher compression ratio than straight paraffin, so more power and more economical. It was developed in the 1930s for the likes of Ferguson and Fordson (E27?) TRACTORS,. Production of TVO in bulk ceased around 1978*. There are numerous variations on the supposed mix for TVO.
The Kelvin and probably Glennifer paraffin engines predate TVO , being designed from the outset to run on paraffin. The Kelvin instruction book recommends trying different brands to get best performance-Esso Blue anybody?
* I have a letter somewhere from Shell oils confirming ceasing TVO production!
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There are a lot of features on that engine that are very similar to the Kelvin-Ricardo petrol/paraffin engines of that era. I don't know the model of the Glennifer but I expect it was designed to run on paraffin rather than TVO.
Features common to the Kelvin, that I can see:
The advance/retard ignition lever rotates the magneto.
The decompressor / priming valves are similar.
The cylinder heads are same shape, so maybe uses the patent Ricardo combustion chamber.
Have you any idea of bore size? I would guess the HP to be about 50 at sub 1000rpm. With six cylinders I would think very smooth running if you can keep all 6 firing reliably. The compression ratio will be low, less than 4.5:1 and fuel consumption poor compared with a similar sized diesel.
Certainly a rare and interesting engine, I hope someone comes up with more detailed information.
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4 hours ago, blackrose said:
So replace the bolt or stud with stainless too.
In my experience, that sometimes makes it worse. A2 stainless seems most vulnerable.
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2 minutes ago, Tacet said:
Very galling
That's the term I was looking for on this thread, thank you.
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On 13/04/2025 at 17:31, blackrose said:
Replace with stainless to prevent them going rusty again.
Stainless has a horrible habit of binding up the thread on an ordinary steel stud, i'm not sure why. Brass is way to go on exhaust stuff, the nut may destroy its own thread on removal but won't damage the steel stud.
I bought a set of "Irwin" rusty nut extractors and can confirm they work well. They can be used with a 3/8"drive or ordinary spanner on the external hex.
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The Bridgewater licence holders are Peel's paying customers, any other boaters , with a very few exceptions, are not. It's got nothing to do with anyone else. For the sake of clarity the breech has blocked much of my boating plans for the forseeable but I'm not a Peel customer. I look forward to being able to use the Bridgewater again.
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Memories of the 76 drought
in History & Heritage
Posted
Wasn't that Dennis Howell who had cut the ribbons to re-open the restored Ashton, Peak Forest and possibly Caldon canals in 1974?
Someone must have thought that he knew about water divining.