70liveaboard

Dave would have built it and wessex have done the fitout, this is what I would think. Rarely if ever did I see or hear of Dave fitting out other builders shells. Wessex, I'm not sure, haven't heard much about them. I could be wrong and it could be that Dave fitted it out.. Just very, very unlikely. He did fitout, but usually only his own shells. Dave built and still builds, although more his son now I think.. Anyhow, he builds a good solid shell. Built huge numbers for many mid range builders over the years, inc Hallmark. Dave Clarke was mainly a shell builder, however that may have changed over the years as he would be in his mid 60's now and may have decided to branch out. But the year 2002, makes me believe it is a Dave Clarke shell and whoever Wessex are, were the fitters, worth asking anyway. Dave was another good friend, many years ago.. Probably still is, not been intouch for quite a while. Oh and R&D, he was the 'D', the other Ray IIRC.. Prior to split up, of course.

Another Hallmark 50'. Same standard fitout, only its been added too a little. But a nice boat selling for £14,000 more than it cost when new apparently. Market is very good at the moment (if your selling). This one has been marked 'sale agreed', but it was worth putting into this thread as its a Hallmark 50' Millennium, make a good liveaboard.

Stiffeners, measure to centre, how many used and so on. But I won't bother to ask how many Mike used, you wouldn't know anyway, nor would anyone on here. I know however. Also section thickness/grade. Stitch weld for stiffeners, how long per stitch, both sides etc etc. Should they be fully welded, is a base welded both sides or 'v'ed out, which is better ????? Plate will not hold a boat together for long. Its a long way from any real experience on here. Just back slapping a buyer for knowing its a boat.. Money doesn't make a boat builder, I can buy plenty of cars, and have, doesn't make me an expert on cars.. I can fit a fuse in a car, still no expert, how about changing a tyre.. you get my point. Although you won't, just back slap some very inexperienced novice, there are plenty on here. Anyone coming here for boat buying experience, please don't go have a word with a boat builder, if they have the time, that is.. I would add one thing for any buyer, the boat in question here has been afloat since the late 80's, so its a good chance, it will float for many more years. However, when you come to replate, which you may. Then find a builder with experience, to re-plate a boat that doesn't have the right makeup can be very costly. The right makeup isn't his name, its how he/she put it together. The builder that re-plates should want to know this. Mike built great boats, we added to those, what other people did, I'm not sure, that was upto them. I know a few that added after delivery. Of course your unimpressed rusty69, your a novice, like your back slapping comrades..

You thinking its all about steel plate thickness, or are there other parts to make up a boat. I think I made it clear. There is no real experience in this thread other than from a boat builder who knows the industry backwards. Knew many of the people building and has handled more boats than you all have owned together, plus much more. Unfortunately that is why I said, right at the start. To come here for advice regards boats is just not good. Its a boaters forum, not a boat builders forum. Buying boats doesn't make you any type of expert, nor does working on them unless your a engineer/fabricator/welder, you have to build them to know what your talking about. Its clear here that no one has, I exclude myself from that.. I have to correct myself, I said experience in this thread, it would be more to the point if I said, whole board really.

Having bought many boat shells throughout the years and dealt with many builders. I do know myself, that buying based on name alone, is not good. I have had many shells from various builders, some still around, but most, sadly gone now. Many of the builders back when I was buying, that had a reputation for higher quality boat shells, did have some unhealthy build practices. Mike Heywood, great bloke, mate at the time, but take one of his shells and not add to it (cabin wise with further section), would in my eye's, be bad for later years. Now mike had a great rep as a builder, one of the top back then, so do his near and dear nowadays. But certainly back then they built boats that used less steel in them than the likes of liverpool, pkb, hallmark, buckle, white etc, etc. But who's right, they may have been right to under build, others may have been right to overbuild..

Mike Heywood built very good boats, Wilson came out of that stable (nephew IIRC) they worked out of the same premises at one time. Mike was a director of the first wilson company I think, before he died. He is better than some on the list, that is for sure (imo) A very good drinker too, had many an afternoon at his 'then', ex hotel, long time ago. Bankruptcy had more or less ruined him, but they let him rent an apartment in the hotel he once owned, nice too. His boats had great lines, but lacked a little cabin support, but nothing too serious. All the boats we had from him, we added further section. He built a great little boat with a bow cabin, would love to see that again, not seen it in years. At that price its well worth a look, it looks too cheap to be honest, but who can tell, someone selling after bereavement etc, can sometimes land a bargain.

Would I buy a boat that had been overplated, Yes. But I would need to have a good look at it first.

It said sale agreed, so I assume its going. I just saw a 45' Millenium go for £27,000, plus the 25' I put in another thread on here somewhere, that seems to have gone too, can't remember how much it was up for. The Millenium range was just the longer version of the Inlander range. Same spec, just longer boats. This was owing to demand by customers for budget boats beyond 35', I think. I think this is where they may have shot themselves in the foot really. A 50' trad of theirs went at Venetian a while back for £39,950, nice boat too. Not one of the budget range, but from the mid 90's. Like Liverpool boats, they sell fairly well and hold their price, well increase really.

Neither will the 'budget' range. 50 here sold for mid 30's Oh, and they keep their price because they're good boats.

Yeah, of course, expected answer.

You may, they wouldn't. Owing to the fact they were around many years prior to launching the budget ones. But I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Only the budget range regards Hallmark were cheap, done to a 'budget'. Their standard everyday boats were mid range prices. There were a few budget ranges, Clubline WYSIWYG, Conmac did some, Narrowboat Sales, & various others. This is way back though. Regards Liverpool, they built huge numbers, many boat fitters who advertised as builders, used the hulls and passed them off as their own. But that happened everywhere, back in the day, probably still does. They also sold fully fitted under 'Pullman'. Going back nearly 30yrs now. Liverpool built all lengths. Back then it was the Princess (trad), Harrington (semi) & Brunswick (cruiser). Boat fitters bought them because they were solid honest good shell's. They sat nicely in the lower Mid range market. If you want really cheap back then, look for a Clubline WYSIWYG, they were incredibly cheap. Plus the Holly range from NS.

You do know he'll read right through your rhetoric.. I would imagine most do. Oh and point where I have been overly zealous. You really do know limited things regards the subject. Point it out though anyway.. Quick edit: there are 60 liverpool boats on AD alone, of all sizes inc 70. But I would expect that and certainly this is why.. OP don't listen to this hopeless advice, especially this guy quoted. Just for info OP: https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boats.phtml?id=765 The reason why so many for sale, this is a small amount compared to the vast amount of boats they built. Probably over thousand, maybe a good bit more than that. They were very, very popular boats. Good boats for the price.

There are relatively few builders compared the fit-out companies. I see Hallmark mentioned above as under Liverpool, quality wise. We would have to remove one, at least, from the high end list, shown in the thread here, because being on both lists would be odd... no.. Most every boat builder will build a shell to a budget, if asked to and depending on order book. But its a boaters forum and I understand why most don't have much idea regards the industry and what goes on within it too.

There isn't any rules, no guides. Just worth what you think you want to pay. I know, its not great, but boat buying is a risk, but most come out of it happy. Good luck.

That would then be three opinions then... No I've started again.. I'm off.

OP, me and a couple of others seem to have highjacked your thread. Sorry about that. But I won't let people call builders out that really don't have the right too. Hope you find what your looking for, but I would also look at shorter as well. Out.. Oh and that boat I pointed too, is for sale @ a snidge under £70,000. Hayward boat sales.

Mid range. Only my opinion, not like others on here. So don't buy one based on my opinion. Get a survey if your ever thinking of, don't consult the forum too much.

Point out where I said they were the top end.. Plus OP, look at this page, scroll down and find the pics of the 70'. Its for sale, out of your bracket, but according to The Boilerman its worth around £17,000.. This is the crap that you deal with on here. His post was further back in the thread where he states it. I didn't start the thread. You reading this or just back slapping.. See what I mean OP, they follow each other around not thinking, back slapping. Be very careful OP its your money, go with your feeling after having it surveyed, or not, if you feel that strong about it. Upto you

Liverpool built good boats, as I have already said, the sales and happy owners clearly prove it. How many did they sell ? My own buying from Liverpool was the same as buying from any other builder, as I have said, they all have their faults.

As I said, every builder has faults, just the industry. I won't call out any builder by name, because I'll probably know them, or have dealt with their shells.

I bought over 30 shells from Liverpool back in the day. In-fact I bought lots of boat shells from other builders over there. Plus right across the UK.

Hopefully you would use a surveyor.. Certainly not buy based on anyone saying this is good or that is bad, from this forum.. That would be a bad idea. Slap on the back means nothing.. Part of the same stream of people.

These are facts according to you.. But of course your not wrong.. Again confirming my first post.

Again, just your ill advised opinion. You just keep confirming my first post here. OP buy as you see it, get a survey.