70liveaboard

Here come the back slappers again. Even the OP caught onto that reasonably early.. Anyway. I had a Merc back in the day. Also had a Lexus soon after. The Lexus was better. But again that is personal pref isn't it. Should add I am really a Jag fan, they are lovely cars, well the older ones were. Lots of issues though. But nowadays anything will do, even a Ford.

Colecraft a touch older 4yrs around the same price, but with a better engine. I know which boat has held its price better and always will. (The Liverpool one) https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=576068 But they're both nice boats, just a matter of taste and pref. For me ownership cost wise, Liverpool 55. Others will choose Colecraft based on the heritage etc. It's all down to personal pref really.

Not asking you or indeed anyone to touch it with anything.. Just showing that Liverpool and other builders from Liverpool area, build good boats that hold a price.

We have a house in Wales, but that one is in a valley not on the tops, although still fairly high up. It has a 1000ltr tank we top up once a year (oil). Leaving it for long periods empty, we leave the heating set to 12c. But in September we haven't ever really had very cold weather in there, apart from nights which could go down to 4-5c. Our boiler is a commercial boiler though and in a seperate part from the main house itself, so not really any problem if something goes wrong boiler side (thinking more water wise).. We love it there, when we go.

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=577842 I've seen better too from Liverpool Boats. And price wise doing well for a 2004.

Good, take some pics whilst your out there, I'll get the popcorn in..

What style is that ? And yes, the things I said 'is' my advice. The OP will not find a boat without getting out there and talking face to face with people. Plus know what the budget is, it started at £30k I posted about that. Went to £44k, I gave my opinion on that too. He is onto spreadsheets now, that leaves me behind.

Sorry, but you haven't followed any of the previous posts I have made for this particular OP. Did you read my responce to the other thread he made regards a 60ft ? It would be better to read prior to assuming and no, I don't boast anything, just practical when it comes to boats, well and many other things in life.

No I'm not saying they are an investment, as in, bricks and mortar. But invest in your time in the boat, do your boating and have it cost as little as possible. That is what I was aiming at. No boat will be without its costs for running. But I was pointing out that many seem to think certain 'high end' names are a good buy, whereas others aren't so good. I was just saying the same can be said for many other builders, not just the 'perceived' higher end builders. In-fact I see it happen more with other builders boats. So no, certainly don't buy as an investment like a house. But an investment in your use of the boat. I would much rather know the boat I have will hold its price, or as near too as possible when I come to sell, or pass on to someone else. I wouldn't advise anyone to buy OTT, its very easy with boats to do it, but it just backfires. Look at the first picture above £149k, in 30yrs whoever sells it then, will need to put it up for, not much short of a quarter of a million to keep up with the second picture (I put up, percentage wise). Not that 30yrs means anything to anyone, just an example that is there. Its one of Stans hulls (old Liverpool boats, well a joint effort lets say).

Yeah, I'm not sure how the spreadsheet idea works, although for the individual perhaps it does. But not as a guide to living on a boat for others, as their spreadsheet would, presumably, be different. Where is the 5k one listed/posted ? or did someone just put 5k for their own experience ?

Partly where you moor it. The licence is there to see. The the rest is personal usage really. Can't see how anyone can put an average on that across user's.

O.k. not sure why one made sense and the other didn't though, when neither seemed to make sense, well to me anyway.. But that said. Enjoy your weekend, well what's left of it.

Yep, I hope they have lots of fun with it. Plenty of bragging rights too, not because of the builder, but the cost he paid. But only to others in his circles, I dare say. First list didn't make any sense to you, or indeed me. Second list you thought was right (not for me, sorry). But why ? What does it prove. The OP's need shoe's a car, well, bus/train would do. Then get out and look at boats..... That much we agree on, or even understand each other on.. Yes ?

Side note, just saw Elton Moss there at the top of the list. They use Polish shells, don't they ? I had some dealings with Polish shell builders back in the early-mid naughties.. Very interesting stuff. Not for here though. The depreciation will probably not even register, if he has the money to pay so far over the top now, it really won't bother him/her. But it does show, not in a good way, how things get skewed. Hudson built a good boat, but.. no.. I'll leave it there..

I'll leave this here and ask.. Why is this special.. (as an investment).. Just to add.. Its a lovely boat, nearing 30yrs old now., Sold recently and I'm not going to put the price. But say this sold for more than it was bought for new.. Original everything, inc engine IIRC.

How much was it new ? & its barely broken in as a boat.. And yes, there is someone out there to buy every boat, not saying there isn't. But your still implying Hudson is better. Why is Hudson better.. ?

Yeah, of course..

Sorry if I mistook gender. The list means nothing. It is what the boats were bought and sold for. With an investment you need to know both ends. Of course Hudson boats will be more pricey, he sold them for more than twice as much. That said, you have to look at how much a Liverpool boat was bought for and how much, after so much use, however much that is.. it sold for. Same with Hudson. Hudsons boats on the whole sell for quite a bit less than bought new, or indeed previously ie. second hand. This trend follows on through its life, albeit slowly or fast, depending on market, but they reduce more. I have seen this to be the case. I am not saying he didn't build a decent boat, I merely asked why would he be considered 'better', fact based on the actual building side and investment in boating i.e. ownership cost.. Liverpool boats tend to do the opposite. So if you buy a Liverpool boat, chances are you'll sell in ten years for a lesser hit on your initial investment, perhaps zero hit... The same would not be said for a Hudson, well I certainly doubt it. Plus of course we have builders on the list twice.. (different names of course ). And don't take this for.. Liverpool will sell at higher prices than a Hudson, they very rarely will. But that means nothing when they cost half the price. Its in comparison to the cost when new, the depreciation and owners 'heavy' replacement cost i.e. engine, steelwork. Main items not the central heating, cooker etc.

[ this research seems to be so out of kilter with reality that it may lead Ivan to conclude that a Liverpool boat is of higher quality than a Hudson, or that a 1976 Calcutt Boat is worth more than a 2006 Tim Tyler Boat ] That is what I was pointing out, no need to be confused. Just why he believes that 'reality' not sure who's, has it that this is wrong, that Liverpool boats are in some way inferior to Hudson. Asking to point out why he thinks that. I would ask others to do the same, taking away any perceived hierarchy of builder. As for the OP, just winding up I think, not sure, but looks like that. He would be a 'timewaster' to a broker. Not that they are, but the way he is going about it is not great. He already missed out on what was probably a perfectly good boat made by a very good builder, but not because of advice or indeed lack of it, more about budget I feel. Every buyer has eyes for boats that are above their ability to buy. Know where your at budget wise, then go buy..

My post was long and only the first part aimed at you (the questions), ie. the 'out of kilter with reality' and 'could conclude that'.... Why you thought that. The rest of my post was 'in general', aimed at the OP and only my view. And I am certainly not arguing or taking anything personally. I was just curious to know why you believe Hudson is better and why thinking otherwise would be out of kilter with reality. Whatever that reality is! or came from. Because that's the way it read. This is the problem on this forum and others. It is our views, not the actual truth.. The way you wrote the post is clearly pointing towards an outcome, i.e. you believe Hudson is a better builder. Then just say that. Don't infer that he may conclude that Liverpool is better and that this isn't the normal thinking, or correct, based on some reality that exists only in certain buyers minds or on this forum. It is just your/their view. Maybe I read it wrong, but it infer's that, to me at least. Enjoy your day too.

Lets get clear first, I asked you why you thought a Liverpool wasn't as good as Hudson. Again quote' out of kilter with reality'. You answer that and I'll start on why I believe that may not be the case.. Give me your reality and what it is based on. I'll give you mine of 40yrs in the industry. But it will only be my view. Base it on steel spec and makeup of the boat itself, weld types etc.. Lets keep it hull only, for now. Yes I own a boat..

I think if you read your own post, you know.. 'Out of kilter, may lead to him believing a Liverpool is better than Hudson'. You infer that to believe liverpool is better is wrong, so I was simply asking for you to clarify why you thought that him being lead that way, would be wrong in some way. And I knew where to start with your post, its pretty clear what you infer there.

Why is a Hudson better than a Liverpool boat? Which builder uses the most steel in the makeup of the boat ? Who has been building longer, 'sold to the trade' the larger percentage ? ('sold to the trade', massive, but not even considered by the buying public) Which builders prices maintain or increase with time ? But again, it comes down to names.. Its ordinary punters that make the names, not the trade. Talk to the trade and the story is different. Solid well made boats are known in the trade. There will always be the ones that buyers raise to a status, in some cases, not earned. Then its 'keep up with the Jones's' for those types of people. The sensible ones buy better and sell for virtually no loss, indeed gain, in many cases. The sensible ones are quieter, the others are much louder and need to brag, if only to avoid people saying 'wait till you sell it' investment will look much worse in most cases. But ask the person, after that loss and.. "oh I don't mind, it was worth the hit just to own one"... To 'own one what'... Steel narrowboat, same onboard comforts, same spec in most cases, same or similar 'engines, central heating system, plumbing, electrics' etc. Same places to go, things to see, only one does it with a return, the other does it at a loss. I know which side I sit, boating has cost me very little since my initial input.. That input (materials) was all trade and the labour (for me) free (just my spare time), so very little at all, in comparison. The advice of a forum is usually half a dozen people (usually back slappers, same names) that can't quite agree unless of course they own the same builder type. Then of course their's is the best. Just human nature, for that type of person. Whereas hundreds of boats are sold per month at the right time of year. So hundreds of better placed punters with advice.. If your looking for an investment that may return you a reasonable price when you decide to move on in life (or even better price), then I would recommend you buy sensibly. If your a 'got to keep some type of self made image up', buy based on name and take the hit when you resell. A broker will tell you one week the Hudson he has in, is renowned. Whereas a month later, provided he sold his Hudson, the boat that has just come in, for arguments sake is a John White, that this boat is now a better buy, as its solidly built and far more affordable, oh! what about the Hudson you had in, "a quiet word between you and me, he's a little overated".. Brokers swing with the sale and where he thinks people's perceived interest is. That is the correct way to sell, if your in the broker business. I can usually tell, which type of customer will buy which type and make of boat. If your a builder/seller, its your business to know. In boating its very easy, in many cases to do just that. Similar with cars. Edit, but one thing I would agree with others on, is your list is, well, no.. not really. But that is my opinion, and mine is different to his, who is different to theirs, that are different to those, which.................. well you get my drift.

Dave's steelwork is as good if not better than Colecraft. As I said very early on to you, don't ask for buying advice here. They don't know the builders well or the trade well. Good luck with your search, there will be a boat out there, just got to find it..

Want a project, get hands on yourself.. Got cash, will probably accept an offer, who knows.. https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=574100