Dr Bob

Thanks for the link. Yes, I had read this before. We also had some solar to top up and a wind/water genny which did achieve full charge at least every other day so mainly we were 'nearly' fully charged.

I was referring to 80-90% charge. I also said the AtoB started at 40A and kept it at this for much longer. Therefore to go from 90 towards full was not much more than an hour. OK, maybe only 95-97%. The point I was trying to make was that the AtoB was far better to get to that level of charge than the straight alternator which within a short time was charging at less than 5 amps. It then took a few hours more to put back in what had gone out. Maybe you are right that I wasn't getting to full charge as I was using amps in vs amps out (as well as charging Amps down to 2-3) but I was looking at the comparison to that state of charge, whatever that state of charge was - to me it didn't really matter as long as state never went below 80% (which was likely less given all the flack I am taking here on state of charge) but the strategy worked as they lasted at least 5 years and possibly more. The AtoB worked better. The battery monitor, if I remember rightly was a BEP one, which 10 years ago seemed to be pretty sophisticated.

My comments were all about the later stages of charging as it sounded like the OP was talking large battery bank and a useage of 100A per day (my interpretation of the numbers that had some dubious values in them). On our yacht, we therefore got away with charging for 30mins to an hour rather than 2-3 hrs -which was important as we were sailing not motoring (ie your one to two hours a day). The AtoB worked well for us. The batteries (cheap end 110A lesiures) worked well for 5 years until we sold the boat. Only once went down to 50% charge and only below 80% a few times so they were looked after. Never saw the negative effect of overvoltage.

The Caly canal is hardly a place to take a narrowboat. Useful to have Steel boat in the locks given all the Hoseasons boat that dont have a clue but a Narrow Boat would be well out of place on Loch Ness. We took our 40ft Yacht with 60ft mast and 2.4 metre draught through there 3 times. It's more 3 big lochs (ie Scottish Lakes) joined by very wide canals. Defo a place for GRP.

Combination of replacing the amps that had been taken out overnight - as measured by a amp hour counter, and then the alternator amps in dropping to 2-3amps which usually seemed to co-incide. We also had a Sterling battery charger that was used when we were on shore power that achieved 100% (I assume) so we had a base line from which to measure Amps out. I was a bit of a power nerd, and watched and plotted the volts and amps all the time. Probably had enough data to write a model for the voltage (similar to the Smartgauge!). I prefer amps in and amps out, but of course that doesnt tell you the capacity of the bank if it has deteriorated.

I was trying to keep it simple and not get too technical. In my experiencethe AtoB did work very well and was 5 times faster than without. Our system was 420 Ahr of batteries (new at first) being charged by a 70A alternator. The boat was new, using a Volvo Penta engine - so new alternator/wiring. My comments were about the ability to charge the batteries from circa 85/90% to full - which is where the OP is going to be if he has upwards of 600Ahr capacity. Before we fitted the AtoB, at 85/90% capacity, the alternator would start by putting in 25amps or so but this would fall very quickly to 5 -10amps and take over 5 hrs to get to 100%. This was on a Sailing yacht were you didnt want to have to run the engine for more than half an hour to get out of your berth. We fitted the AtoB and found that the initial charge was 40 amps but it was sustained at this level for much longer. Less than an hour was needed to get up to 100%. In our case it was 5 times faster and it was new kit (albeit smaller capacity etc). We lived aboard for 3 years and in the 5 years we had the boat, the battery performance did not seem to deteriorate. I am sure you are right in saying a modern Beta with 175A domestic alternator is the bees knees, but not everyone will have that. Our current boat doesnt but with 700Ahrs of capacity and a 90A alternator, I am happy to run it a few hours to put the amps back in.

I think you may be getting a rather skewed picture from the replies in this thread. There are a number of folks saying NB's are the best for canals and a number of folks supporting GRP. It almost sounds like is pretty even. You need to look at reality. As I said before, we have just done the Warwick ring in a week (ie 130 locks - with a detour into Brum) and NOT ONE Grp boat passed us. NOT ONE. Yes you may be seeing them near rivers (where GRP is by far the best choice) but in a the muddy ditch areas - people are not using them - less than 1% on this route in the last week. Does that tell you something? If you decide not to share locks with NB's then you will be slowing down the lock process and waste water which by the levels we have at the moment is important. Whilst you may be happy to wait till the NB in front completes the lock, what about the guy behind you, and the one behind him. If you were doing 99%+ of you time on canals, IMHO you would be daft to buy a new or 'modern' grp cruiser. Most other people in this neck of the woods think the same (viz not passed one all week) I'm out of here!

...but all the GPR boats I am seeing are looking extremely tatty. Our GPR sailing boat was bought by us new. We had here for 5 years. We lovingly protected her from all sorts of potential damage. You just cant do that on the canals. We loved our GRP boat on the sea. I firmly believe a GRP boat on the canals is a bad idea. The laminate may hold up over many years but not if you are going in an out of wide locks with steel boats. What are you going to say when you motor into your first lock on the GU and then you are followed in by a steel NB who clouts your back end. It happens all the time.

Point 1. Yes, you are right that older boats were made with much thicker laminates - not denser. No that has no difference to osmotic blistering. Blistering is caused by air pockets in the laminate. Water migrates to these pockets by osmosis. It is mainly the gel coat which will stop this ingress so the gel coat is key in looking at osmosis. The older method of hand lay up of the laminate caused a lot of the air voids hence a lot of evidence of osmosis on boat made in the 70's and 80's. Thickness of laminate has zero effect on the progress of osmossis When the manufactures swiched to vacuum infusion or resin injection, the air voids were less and the glass was better wet out and hence osmosis is less. I would forget osmosiss. It is not a problem. It never sank anythink. I would be far more worried about a big gash in the front of my boat, or a load of very fine cracks caused in the gel coat caused by a 'casual' bump against the lock entrance - as that will let water into the laminate ....and that is not osmosis. Point 2. Fine, see you on the GU in a few weeks in one of the wide locks. I wouldnt like to be crushed in there with a 20te steel boat next to me - dont forget, I dont have fenders out. Rivers yes, canals no.

What are you asking? GRP stands for glass reinforced plastic. That is a composite made from a fibre (ie, glass or nylon (ie kevlar) or carbon fibre) bound together with a thermoset matrix, (ie unsaturated polyester, vinyl ester or epoxy etc) From your other post, you seem to suggest one sort is better for osmosis. Epoxy/ Carbon is by far the best with glass/polyester the worst ....but almost all GRP boats are made with glass/polyester. You then have to think about how it is made, ie glass to resin ratio, type of glass (chopped strand mat, spray roving, or woven roving) lay up method ( vacuum, resin injection, hand lay up etc). Your average buyer will not have a clue about the above. All the above will have an effect on lifetime - and osmosis which you referred to earlier.

NO, NO, NO. A scratch on a GRP hull will cause a tear of the gel coat and therefore expose the glass fibre laminate underneath. Water will therefore have access to the glass mat and water will wick into the laminate causing damage. Scratches must be repaired. With Steel, at the next lift out, you can just monitor corrosion and get it welded. GRP is FAR, FAR less forgiving. Trust me, I'm a Doctor (with 10 year developing GRP). We lived aboard a 40ft Sailing Yacht sailing it from Scotland to Greece over 3 years so know all about how GRP hulls work. We have recently bought a solid, steel, heavy, long, wont sink, narrowboat. We have just completed our first month aboard doing the GU, the Staford, the Birmingham and Fazely, the Coventry and Oxford canal, and there is NO WAY I would try and do this in a GRP boat. The locks, bridges, other narrowings, are just not wide enough to traverse without contact. Yes, you can get 100% contact free, but just one bump and you will need to check the hull for damage. Just one lock approached at the wrong angle would see an impact on the front that could cause load of micro-cracks which will weaken the hull. On our recent trip round the Warwickshire ring, I did not see one grp boat going in the opposite direction. It would be very interesting to share a lock on the GU with a plastic boat. If I had a GRP boat I would never go in a lock with a steel narrow boat. I am not sure where your comment on osmosis comes from. All GRP will suffer from it to greater or lesser degrees. It is caused initially by poor lay up techniques introducing air voids in the laminate, which water is then driven into by osmotic pressure. The speed it will be driven into will be a function of the water transmission through the gell coat or laminate. Some gel coats are worse than others (I spent 4 years developing gel coats for one the UK's polyester manufactures many years ago). Osmosis is not something you should worry about as it is unlikely to sink a boat made over 10 years ago when the laminate thickness was usually good. Far worse is the effect of a cracked gel coat which then allows water directly into the laminate. Water will wick up the glass fibres and reduce the strength of the fibre to resin bond weakening the structure. This is not osmosis. To be honest, most grp hulls were so overenginered that they will never sink anyway - just look at the much reduced thickness's now.....but would you like to be in a lock with me. No, GRP hulls for oceans and rivers......Steel narrowboats for the canals.

Yes, that's about right. From Nov - Feb the sun is just too low in the sky to put much power in (if no clouds, rain etc) - and because we dont get blue sky often it is worse. Also think about all those trees and banks that the canals go through and there is not a lot of light. You really only get 6 hours of real light in the winter months (10am to 4pm) if you are lucky (for Scotland it is 11am to 2pm). We have a lot of ocean sailing experience and here we found a wind genny very effective. If you are mooring in open spaces, then this could augment your power significantly BUT it can be noisey (and will be to your neighbours!!) and will not work if you are mooring in sheltered places (ie the sort of spaces we will be mooring). Running the engine is the only answer, but if finance is not an issue, buy an alternator to battery charger. This fools the alternator into thinking the batteries need charging and thus the alternator puts out more charging voltage. We had a Sterling unit on our boat which worked great and you could see 50-60amps going into the batteries for many hours. I think Sterling claim that it charges the batteries 5 times fast which is what we saw.

Fully agree with Robbo. To put it another way, you need 10 times the number of solar panels in the winter. To put it another way, dont expect to rely on solar panels in the UK in the winter. We have 200 Watts of solar with 700 Ahrs of batteries and it is great in the summer putting in around 80Ahr/day - nearly our daily useage...but in the winter...we will need to run the engine.

Any fuel boats heading north on the Coventry canal? We are heading south from Fazely Jnct to Braunston over the next 3 days. Not sure where the individual web sites are for the various fuel boats.

Thanks for the link.

How do we find out where the fuel boats are? Is there an up to date location site for them? Apologies for not knowing!!!

Yes, just noticed on the map there is a basin very near. I may try a reverse just for the heck of it. Yes, there were dredgers in 2 places about a mile before Kings Norton junct. They were saying up to 30 mins delay. We had 20 mins to wait at the first and about 5 at the second. Some really shallow water at the edges.

Thanks Tizzy, that is useful. I have now lots of very useful ideas.

Thanks John. Yes we ended up in Gas street basin, but no space to pull in so round onto the main line ....and quite a way down. Should be fun reversing back to the Old turn! I do need some practice reversing. It was a pleasant trip if ...but quite long with a couple of stops to let the dredgers finish.

That almost sounds like a plan. Not researched the centre of Brum. Is it easy to find a berth there? Recommendations.

Oh,that is a bit of a bummer. That's going to add a few hours then. Just doing a search on Tyseley top lock and cant see any locks at Tyseley so not sure where teh C&RT place is. We didnt quite make it to Catherine de Barnes today though - only getting to the black boy pub before Knowle. Didnt get the heads up re the closure until after the junction with the north stratford. We did check the C&RT site this morning but must have missed the Garrison locks announcement. The volunteer locky at Hatton told us he thought the Aston flight was shut!! So I will have a look on canalplan to see what the timings are but looks like we will be on the GU up to Bordsley junct then Ashton Junct then Salford junc then east on the B&F. Any other options other than Tyseley top lock (which I cant find) circa 8 hrs from the Black boy.

Thanks for all the inputs all. Looks like Catherine de Barnes fits the bill then and the run on Monday will get us through Brum. I'll report back on the pub!

We are doing the Warwickshire ring Clockwise this week with the family/Grandkids . We are heading up Hatton tomorrow and then past Knowle. What is the last safe stopping point for an overnight stop before the outskirts of Brum? The following night we want to get to Drayton manager. Is the Boat inn at Catherine De barnes any good? I will check canalplan for the timings to there. Currently by Tescos in Warwick.

Thanks Tizzy. What sort of blending valve have you got - and is it preset to 40C? Just thinking about that, to do it I need to take a feed from the hot kitchen tap - so why not just have two feeds, hot and cold, and have a tap on each. Set it for hot during fill and switch over to cold once full. It will need someone to watch it for the first 5 mins or so.

Still no sign of the the gauge. My son and family + grandkids are down today so I will get them looking in all the places I cant reach. Thanks for the heads up on wiring. ...but likely to be close as no one wants to put in long lengths to the back of the boat. Its over 11 lts/min when the system is up to pressure as the accumulator is driving it out. Not sure what it drops to but it seems to be at the 11lt/min. I will check the voltage - good thought. Its at the front of the boat so likely some slight voltage drop.