NB Willawaw

In my experience, most hireboaters tend to start off from their home base and then moor on the towpath each night until they get back to the base again - I rarely see them in marinas using pontoon berths, diesel pumps or the pump out. The issue with this subject is that its very much chicken and egg. Marinas don't want to fit Channel M because they don't think many boats have VHF. Boats don't want to fit VHF because few facilities use it. Those boats that do have it tend to keep quiet because they only use it when navigating tidal or commercial waterways. You would never know that we have VHF - there is no visible aerial for most of the time we cruise. Although we have a fixed 25W set, I would probably use a handheld if only a few miles away. I conducted a survey that was as fair as I could make it as I was genuinely interested in the truth and 44% was the figure that came back. Admittedly it was a survey of only about 50 boats (only 50 boats responded). It could be that many members who didn't have VHF couldn't be bothered to respond or it could be that there is some correlation between those that use Facebook and those that use VHF. We could do a similar survey/poll on here but I don't have good experiences with CWDF polls.

I quite agree. Normally, the resistance to VHF is from narrowboaters, which is fine. Nobody needs to fit it if they don't want to. However, here we are talking about marinas fitting Ch M so that those who already have a fixed or handheld VHF can get better use out of their equipment and for it to be used in a useful and positive way that will benefit boatowner and marina alike. The other day, we detoured down an arm and several locks to reach a marina - it would have been great to have just given them a free VHF call on Ch M from a few miles away to confirm that they had room for us. Their phone number was on a board erected at the very entrance to the basin - a bit late.

Well the survey wasn't deliberately selective and was quite openly worded - it was conducted on the Just Canals Facebook and Canals & Rivers UK Facebook group, the latter of which has many CWDF members. I find the world of canals very traditional and incredibly frustrating - anything new or not conforming with a perceived norm is usually rejected out of hand. However, it doesn't stop us talking about such things. We would never have anything new if ideas weren't floated.

In a recent survey on two canal related Facebook groups, it was discovered that 22 boats carry VHF either permanently or occasionally 12 boats don't and have no interest 15 boats don't have VHF but would consider it if more boats and marinas fitted To me, this suggests that VHF has potential on our canals. I don't mean that boats cruise round with aerials up and loudspeakers blaring static to spoil everybody's peace. Quite the opposite. However, if marinas and some service-supplying boatyards fitted channel M, this would allow VHF equipped boats to communicate about berth locations, pump out availability, etc. In fact, virtually anything you might normally phone a marina or yard for, except the calls are free. I'm not even suggesting boats fit VHF specially for this purpose - it just seems that if 44% of boats already have VHF, they could actually get better use out of it. Channel M costs a marina £75 per year for the licence. A VHF base station can be bought for around £100. No trained operator is required to operate a set working on channel M. The person who normally answers the phone can operate the channel M set. Most VHF boat sets sold in the UK, come complete with channel M (or Ch37A as it is sometimes called). I've spoken to a few marinas and there seems little interest. One even said in their defence, that they had not received anybody asking for it. I wonder how many boaters know about the merits of Channel M ??

Its cleared now.

Thanks Bottle. I have seen that one before, but I think they only provide the frame as an extra cost option when they provide their panels and controller. I guess I was looking for a frame that can be adjusted to fit a variety of panels and a controller of your choice. People generally have their own ideas about what panels they want and the trend now is to fit an MPPT controller. Thanks for looking though.

Sorry, I meant make a frame that can tilt or turn manually. The comment about the tracker was just a "by the way" but good luck with yours.

A few years ago, a friend and I made a solar tracker - a motor driven device which moved the panel around to ensure that it tracked the sun as the sun made its weary and daily path across the sky. It was a prototype and although it worked, for a number of reasons that I won't bore you with, we never took it any further. It always surprised me that somebody who has fabrication skills, doesn't make a tilting/rotating frame for panels, that ticks all the boxes. Surely it must be possible to make an adjustable universal one ? With all the canal boats that use solar now, I'm sure there would be a ready market. Looking on Ebay and the like, I see nothing suitable.

Welcome to the beautiful Stort. Hallingbury is a lovely location.

RLWP do you have VHF on your boat ?

Who knows. Certainly many of the boaters I've heard of fitting VHF aren't near the Thames - they continuously cruise all over or are using it on waterways shared with commercial craft. I don't think the number of boaters using VHF is on the decrease - quite the opposite as the equipment costs come down - however, it may still represent a small proportion of total boaters. Thats not so much the point. IMHO the real point is whether commercial operators like large offline marinas would benefit from fitting a marina channel equipped VHF set. As an established narrowboat VHF user, it would benefit me and I would give them my business in preference to those without. Obviously, I don't expect them to run their business around me, but as I said in my previous post, one hand very much washes the other. I've read the thread you refer to, but cannot see the connection - please explain ?

Penton Hook, Bray and Windsor Marinas on the non-tidal Thames (above Teddington Lock) have Marina VHF and use Channel 80.

Without some sort of structure, it will end up like PMR446, only with a much greater range. At the moment, we use PMR446 for locking and as we move through the different areas, most of the users I hear are children playing on it. Radios are either toys for fun or serious boating tools - its hard to be both. Interestingly, talking to boaters who have done the one day course, I think they all, without exception, found it fun to do. If you take the DSC part out, which isn't really useful or relevant on the cut, the rules for marine VHF are pretty simple really - its just about an awareness of how to use a radio efficiently and clearly. Sorry about the "continuous listening watch" bit, but I spent much of my working life doing just that and the expression is ingrained. No melodrama. Its just an expression meaning of course to listen to your radio.

Over the last couple of years, I've noticed more and more CWDF members fitting Marine VHF and I suspect this is probably representative of the inland boating fraternity. The purpose of the OP was to suggest a way of getting more use from the investment, in a practical way that would benefit both boat owners and waterways trades. If I owned a boatyard or marina which was supplying moorings, gas, diesel punp-outs etc I would do it in a heartbeat. £175 for the first year; £75 for subsequent years. If you have somebody sitting during working hours in an office or reception, answering the phone, how difficult is it to monitor channel M ? No formal training is needed and with the squelch set right (i.e. muted so as not to disturb), its not a lot different to minding the phone. At the end of the day, M stands for Marina - that's what it was designed for. Why should it be exclusive to salt water marinas ? I accept the telephone argument, but to be honest most coastal boats are within mobile range when they want to talk to their marina. At a lot of coastal marinas, they will send somebody out on the pontoons to greet you. Inland marinas don't generally do this, so VHF is very handy to be able to ascertain they have space and get a berth number. Often you get there and somebody else in already moored there - another call to the office. Even if you don't use marinas, it would be useful for on-line boatyards, even if they just have a hand portable with Ch M. Its useful to be able to call ahead and check what time they are going to be open to, if they have a water point etc. VHF is free to use if you have the equipment - why waste money on mobile phone calls ?? VHF is used on the Norfolk Broads with patrols being VHF equipped and the Broads Controller monitoring Ch12 etc. Just because canal folk like trad working boats, it doesn't mean that the canal system can't move with the times. As I think I stated elsewhere on here, my main objection to radios on boats is having them blaring out when the boat is cruising, with high volume settings and lots of inane chatter, but this appears to be a way of using them constructively without ruining peoples peace and quiet. Our VHF is mounted under the sliding hatch out of the weather and I normally take its telephone handset down the steps to use it, away from the engine and without disturbing people outside. Also, its self sustaining. The more boaters that fit VHF, the more attractive it becomes for the trades to install a base station. The more trades that have it, the more boaters will find it useful and be attracted to fitting VHF.

Tim, Well I said it seems to be a list - I didn't say how good a list I don't think you could rely on them - it would too much paperwork and involve too many risk assessments. Probably the best bet and quickest wins would be the private marinas. Staff don't need certification and only a very minimum of training as the VHF would stay set on Channel M with the squelch up. They would just need to respond to calls during opening hours (a bit like answering the phone really).

This seems to be a list of the inland marinas which have VHF. Mostly brackish ones, but its a start. http://home.btconnect.com/wirelesscomms21/RU/Downloads/vhf_channels.pdf

We passed a well known hire boat company's yard the other day and we were desperate for fresh water. I wanted to give them a call to ask if they wouldn't mind if I filled my tank. It took me ages to find their phone number because they use centralised booking and that is the only number on the website. A wider use of channel M in these circumstances would benefit both the yard and boater alike. Eventually got through, offered a small token payment (as we were taking nearly a ton of water) and they were only too helpful. Ended up spending some more money on provisions in their shop and everybody was happy. It just would have been easier if I could have called them on VHF like I do salt water yards.

Having recently struggled to get a dongle signal whilst cruising, so I could look up the phone number of a Marina we would were passing to inquire about availability of services, it occurred to me how bloody useful it would be if I could actually get some use out of the VHF equipment that I carry on board our narrowboat. Like a lot of boaters these days, we carry VHF for the Thames tidal and other selected waterways where there are commercial vessels. Most of the time it sits brooding in the corner. We often need to contact marinas and boatyards to see if they have any visitor moorings, if their pump-out is working, etc. I just thought it would be good if more marinas and boatyards would buy themselves a cheap base station and get a licence for Ch.M. A fixed set these days can be bought for £100 or less and the Channel M licence costs £75 per annum. As its not an international channel, the users don't need to undergo any test or certification. Some of the MDL marinas on the Thames have this facility (probably because they are often dealing with GRP cruisers that go down the estuary) and it seems to work quite well. It would certainly save that long slog off the canal into the marina basin, only to reach the services berth to find an out of order sign. Or to ask about the price of their diesel Or to ask where they expect me to moor on the umpteen finger pontoons around me ? and of course, it might stop my VHF gathering dust..

Not sure about diesel, but there is a pump out boat. I seem to recall he doesn't work every day and only comes out to order. Give Liverpool Marina a call; the boat is based there.

But what do you want to use it for ? Calling shopkeepers up and asking if they have any sausages ? booking a table for dinner at the pub that night ? It's such a sporadic occurence, you can use mobiles for that. Who in those places will want to man a radio in their shop just in case a canal boater calls them ?? Chatting to boats ahead and behind you ?? As much as I like radio's, I wouldn't really want to be hearing non-stop chatter about this kind of stuff when I'm relaxing on my boat. If I need to call a marina up on the marina channel to ask a question to save a wasted detour into their basin or call a bridge keeper on their channel - fine. I quite like the discipline and structure of marine VHF as it keep senseless and inane chatter off the air (sometimes). I'm not sure that I want to be maintaining a listening watch, with the speaker turned up high so I can hear calls over the engine - that's not what I and a lot of others signed up for and I think this is the main reason radio on canals will never catch on. On salty water boats, you are generally some way away from others, so this only disturbs people onboard your own boat. Just my opinion of course, but most of the boaters I have found who are interested in this sort of stuff like playing with radios generally and they are a very small minority (and it's always men - why is that ??)

Nice idea but don't think it will ever happen. Similar ideas have been discussed on here before and there just doesn't seem enough interest amongst inland boaters to make it happen. You have to look at why the boaters who currently have marine VHF licences have them ? why do they bother considering the limited use that it affords on inland waterways ?

I find it hard to believe that they will release it for free and that they would release it to such a small usage group. Certainly PBR etc is used as a revenue earner. If there are no rules to it or channel discipline, it is likely to end up as a free for all with a comparitively long range of 5-10 miles over land, which takes inane chatter a long way. If you have to use radio on the canals, why not just use the marine band, but do the course and use it properly/responsibly. I have a Sailor 2048 fixed set on the boat, with an Icom portable handheld and an Icom scanning receiver, so I like my radio's too. If I want to chatter, I just use PMR446 where virtually anything goes. If its out of range, I use a mobile phone. Do we really need a dedicated canal band ?? I feel that the quickest way to get marine band used on canals is to encourage the marinas to fit it like coastal marinas do. Certainly, I would use it to call them up to check if they have any visitors berths, the pump out is working etc. At our last marina, we were put on the furthest pontoon from the office, which meant a long walk around the basin to find that the office was shut or the guy I wanted was out on a boat somewhere. You can phone them of course, but VHF would be useful in these situations as you go straight through to a marina control person and it saves looking up phone numbers etc. I seem to recall using VHF with the Thames MDL marinas on the non-tidal river ?? I flicked through the recent topic on VHF and it occurs to me that AIS would be more useful than VHF, especially these days when we are trying to conserve water at locks and don't know when the next boat will be along. Of course, that's not going to happen, although we might see it becoming compulsory on the tidal Thames. Could be another hurdle to jump over for the humble narrowboater and a way of keeping sewer tubes off PLA waters.

I fit one on virtually every boat I work on. I use a proper sensor and alarm panel, but I've seen people use cheap fridge alarms and stuff. Going off at 1" depth is probably a bit late as that is a lot of water. I normally set mine to go off at about 8-10mm. If the cause is the water tank or a broken pump, the sooner you can get to the isolation valve, the less water you will need to pump out.

There are boaters and those that just live on boats...