Lily Rose

Hi all, I'm new(ish) to this site and new(ish) to being a narrowboat owner, having started looking for a boat in July, found "the one" (I hope) almost immediately and bought it within 3 weeks after a survey and after feedback/advice on this site. Also a special thanks to Ray T who has been extremely helpful to us. nb Lily Rose has now been ours for 3 weeks as of today and is moored at Ventnor Marina in Warwickshire. I anticipate numerous midweek cruises on the Oxford canal, north and south, as well as between Braunston and Napton on the GU, over the coming weeks and months. Please say hello if you spot us. Any advice for new owners on important issues, such as where to hide the donuts, would be much appreciated. Cheers, Sean

CRT (Lorraine, who also checked with a colleague/supervisor) told me on the phone today that if a licence was bought before April 2015 (I assume she meant end of April as the new Ts & Cs came in on 1 May) then it can still be transferred, otherwise not. I gave her the name and number of the boat I am buying and she confirmed that the licence was paid in full to run for 12 months from 1/3/15 and can therefore be transferred to me. At my request she then confirmed this in an email. The sale of boat form on the licencing page of the CRT website still has a section to allow for transfer of the licence. I'll be rather annoyed, and will complain strongly, if that turns out to be untrue.

I ended up going with someone else in the end, partly because Trevor has still not returned my call from a week ago. I made no mention of GHBS or of the marina in my message so that can't be the reason. I didn't chase him up as I assumed it would have been a waste of time given the comments made in the forum about him being unwelcome at Ventnor. I also tried Steve Hands but he was on holiday. Perhaps that's why Trevor didn't get back to me either. (No, I'm not suggesting they've gone off on holiday together). When I spoke to GHBS about the surveyor I had chosen I also mentioned Trevor and, as far as I could tell over the phone, there was no adverse reaction. Perhaps it was all a bit of a storm in a teacup. Anyway, it's all academic now as far as my survey goes.

Hi Dave, Just to clarify, the prospect is very much not fraught! I can't bloody wait to get the survey over so I can become an owner rather than a (very) occasional hirer. I just need some help to try and convert MrsBeethoven from a passenger to a halfway competent/confident steerer so that I don't end up effectively operating as a single-hander everywhere. I'm not even too concerned about that on the narrow canals, it's more about the broad locks. And thanks for the offer, though I'm hoping that the arrangement already made with another very helpful forumite will up the confidence level of the missus sufficiently to get us going.

Thanks to everyone for your input to this thread. I've been thinking about it all over the last few days. I can't think of much else at the moment and can't wait for the survey to be done so that we can (hopefully) complete the purchase. I agree with so much of what has been said, including the fact that you can't buy confidence and experience. I also agree that some initial training, formal or otherwise, and preferably on our own boat, would be very helpful to kick-start the process. If he still agrees, I intend to take up the very kind offer of some initial help from a very experienced boater who has responded to my original post and who moors close to where I hope to moor. After that, and after a further week or three to see how we get on, I will take stock and decide whether or not either or both of us still need something a bit more intensive. Thanks again for all your help, it's been very useful.

@andyb116 - thanks for that suggestion, I may well go for that if I don't go for Trines. @fer - thanks for some feedback on the Braunston course run by Trines. I'm glad to lean I didn't imagine her after all! I think I will speak to her once the survey is done, not only because it appears to be exactly what I need for my wife, and looks to be good VFM, but also because it is conveniently located for us as the boat is currently at Wigrams Turn and will move to Ventnor if all goes well with the survey. The three locks near Ventnor will be excellent practice as we will be going through those just about every time we leave the marina.

The fact that it is so inexpensive is why I am trying to find out if she is any good before potentially wasting money. I hear what you all say about experience and practice and that has worked fine for me. You don't know my wife though so please believe me when I tell you that it is unlikely to work with her. I liken this to people who refuse go on planes (she's one of those as well) where nothing I or anyone else could say would change this. The only hope would be to go on a proper nervous flyer course (and I've never managed to get her to do that either!)

Unfortunately my wife will not, for reasons I won't go into here, be able to fully operate locks so I need her to have sufficient confidence to take the boat in and out of locks without me on board, particularly in wide locks. At the moment she is able to keep the boat in (more or less) a straight line for a short time on a straight stretch of canal with no other boats, bridges etc and with me standing beside her. She can also hold the boat reasonably still in a narrow lock so I can climb in or out whilst in the lock and operate it. At the moment I can't see how I can improve on this situation without the assistance of someone used to coaching very nervous beginners. Somebody must surely have heard of Trines Ward? Please? I'm starting to think I've imagined her! If it was just me I probably wouldn't bother but it's not, it's mainly for my wife. Any benefit to me would just be a bonus.

Thanks Richard, I already had those RCR courses on my to do list so it's good to get a recommendation. Priority 1 though is to get my nervous wife trained by someone who can build her confidence enough so that she could take the boat in and out of locks on her own leaving me free to operate the lock. At the moment there is no chance of that! It's disappointing that no-one seems to know anything about Trines Ward, I would have thought someone would given that Braunston Marina link to her website as their suggestion for just this sort of training. https://sites.google.com/site/boathandlingtuition/ https://sites.google.com/site/boathandlingtuition/tuition-programme--fees According to her website she offers exactly what I am looking for (plus the courses you recommend at a slightly later date) as it appears to cover lots of stuff useful for a newbie and excellent value at £100 for an 8 hour day for two people. But only if she's good!

I don't think I'll ever forget that word after reading so many Google hits!

Has anyone used, or heard anything about, a one day beginners boat handling tuition course by Trines Ward? I found her name in the training section of the Braunston Marina website. Seems very good value, 8 hours for a couple on their own boat for only £100, and thorough as it covers lots of stuff. All assuming she's any good of course. (Googling for reviews found nothing which worries me a bit) I'm interested for myself but even more so for my (nervous) wife so she can have more skill and confidence once we get our own boat in a few weeks, survey permitting. No qualification comes of it but that's not what I'm after. Thanks in advance (again).

Thanks MJG. I've now read plenty about surveys so I understand the (many limitations) but I'm just assuming that if there are any big issues the surveyor is more likely to spot them than I am thus bringing down the risk a bit. I've now booked Michael Clarke. Still waiting to hear what either Trevor or GHBS have to say. I'm assuming there was a falling out for some reason, annoying but never mind. I spoke to Michael at some length and he sounded fine to me so hopefully he'll do a good job.

I am a complete novice (apart from a couple of holiday hires) and I don't know anyone who knows about boats. My main concern is a hull survey but given that the overall cost, including getting the boat out, is not hugely different, I may as well get a full survey. It's looking likely I will go with Michael Clarke. He's the only one I've managed to contact so far, he's available in a couple of weeks, the price looks reasonable (£475 inc VAT) and he includes a free BSS with a full survey. On the other hand Trevor Whitling is apparently not welcome at the marina (still waiting for him to call me back) and Steve Hands is on holiday so 27 July is the earliest I could get in touch with him.

Thanks for all the feedback. I've already gone and done it... I put a deposit on Lily Rose yesterday. I offered the full asking price, subject to survey, as it had already been reduced by £5k when we saw it, but to include everything on board so I haven't got to go out and buy new stuff (no boat to transfer stuff from and not moving out of our house). I've seen the 2014 survey (done when current owner bought the boat but now selling due to job loss) but I'm also trying to sort my own survey for additional peace of mind. The external photos of the boat were deceptive in regard to tumblehome. It looked fine to me and the previous survey also confirmed this. We looked at half a dozen boats in the morning in order to have something to compare Lily Rose to. One seemed pretty reasonable but no wow factor, one was ok but too small, the others looked well rough despite two of them being a bit dearer. However, these were all at Whilton Marina which I now realise is possibly not the best place to look for benchmarks but the process is easier there. When we went to see Lily Rose it was a completely different kettle of fish. As soon as we saw it, inside and out, it just felt right. Even my wife, who was a lot less keen on buying a boat than me, said "I love this boat" within minutes of being on board. Just gotta hope the survey doesn't throw up any serious issues.

I've already left him a message to call me back. I'm currently contemplating Michael Clarke (includes a free new BSS), Iain Jones and Steve Hands so I think I'll ring them next. I'd lilke to hear from Trevor first though, but I guess I'd better not wait before phoning the others.

And me! But I'm assuming "not welcome" means Ventnor (as I think it's them rather than GHBS) won't let him in which would make it a bit difficult.

Thanks for input so far (anyone else please?). My initial thoughts, based on this thread, and others I've searched, and a look at surveyors' websites, is Trevor Whitling but in another thread I read something about him not being welcome by Great Haywood Boat Sales and/or Ventnor Marina (not sure which). Bugger! I'm buying through the former and the survey is to be done at the latter and I plan to moor there. Back to the drawing board.

Hello all, I put down a deposit on a 45' boat from Great Haywwod Boat Sales yesterday subject to survey. The boat is in Wigrams Turn Marina. I now need to arrange for a full survey. Great Haywood's webiste listed lists the independent surveyors shown below. I don't know where they are located, so they may not be local, as Great Haywood sell boats from various locations, not just Wigrams Turn. Michael Clarke Peter Tindall Ricky Tropman Iain Jones Assuming the purchase goes through I plan to moor at Ventnor Marina and the harbourmasters I saw their yesterday (Richard and Peter) gave me three names as follows: Michael Clarke (again, so presumably he is local) Justin Green Peter Brown Can anyone offer any information to point me in the direct of a good/reliable surveyor please? I was thinking of ringing three (but which three?) to get quotes. Thanks

Matty, i've replied to your PM, as far as I can tell it went to you ok.

Hi all, just got back home for my first chance to reply in a while. Thanks for the responses so far, any more would be gratefully received. I'm now reassured about the lack of C/H on Lily Rose. My concerns are now/still... - bottom thickness - unknown parentage/age of hull (i read somewhere that the shell is what really matters as eveything else can be changed). - reason for the recent survey ( I will ask ). Also, Athy's comment about tumblehome (A new word I've learnt today!). Is that just a reason to be extra careful with narrow bridges or a real risk of damage or getting stuck? Regarding Aintree Beetles, I spoke to Andy at Aintree yesterday and he said the website still shows old spec for the steel, it's now 10/6/5/4. I think my main concerns are cruising range for fuel and having to frequently top up the water. The gas bottle issue is more of a slight irritation really as it will increase gas costs but as I won't be living aboard or doing extended trips (much as I'd like to I've been told by MrsBeethoven that it's not going to happen, 2 weeks is to be the max!) that is probably not a show-stopper. Thanks again, please keep your thoughts coming, it's very helpful.

Thanks Bod, that did cross my mind but I must remember to ask when I view. I believe some brokers encourage sellers to get a survey before selling but this one was in 2014 so I wondered if the seller has only had the boat a year, in which case why sell so soon? I would definitely be getting my own independent survey!

Newbie here so please be gentle! Hopefully I will become a forum regular before long. After a recent boat holiday (not my first) on the Shroppie, and recent early-ish retirement, I have decided to press ahead with a long-held desire to own a boat while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. I'm 59 and it feels like now or never. I'm hoping forum members would please be kind enough to give their views on two boats I'm viewing on Thursday 16 July. I'm looking for something 35' to 45' for 1 or 2 week holiday use 2 or 3 times a year plus more frequent weekend use and will moor it in a marina in the Napton Junction area to give multiple cruising options and a driving time from home near Oxford of only an hour or so. It will be used mainly by my wife and I but with occasional visits from family members so I'm looking for a 4 berth. The first is Lily Rose, 45', £30k, moored in Wigrams Turn marina. http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/images/pdf_files/LilyRoseBrochureMainPage.pdf I've looked at lots of boats online but i keep coming back to this one because it ticks lots of boxes as well as having a name with close family connections. I know the latter is not a reason to buy but it makes me feel like this is possibly meant to be "the one". Slight concerns are... - the bottom plate is only 8mm rather than 10 - no C/H, only solid fuel. Perhaps not a problem as it will be mainly used during better weather but some short-break spring or autumn use during chillier times is also likely. - I know nothing about how good the shell builder and the engine are. There was a survey in 2014, which I will ask to see, but I would get a new one if I make an offer. The 2nd is a new build of an Aintree Beetle, a lot shorter but very clever use of space. And lower running costs due to size. http://www.aintreeboats.co.uk/aintree-beetle.html The base model is 25' £30k but also available as 30, 35 and 40 with roughly £6k price increases for each 5' increment. I would likely go for 30 or 35 so therefore £36k or £42k. More expensive than Lily Rose but new rather than 2nd hand, albeit smaller. I will be viewing 25' and 30' variants in Crick Marina. Main concerns are... - how good are Aintree Boats? They seem to offer good VFM. Or are they cheap for a reason? - the fuel and water tanks are very small, presumably to save space. Is this likely to be a big problem? - the space for gas bottles is only big enough for small bottles, under 4kg each. This will make gas dearer but with diesel C/H perhaps this does not matter too much? Many thanks in advance for the benefit of your wisdom.