Tony Brooks
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Posts posted by Tony Brooks
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23 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:
Thanks! That's the info I needed the most.
Thanks Tony and Black Rose. For now I need to know what battery to purchase, I'll deal with the switches, charging options and regulation requirements next.
The point that I think you may be missing is that unless you understand and monitor the battery charging you will destroy and expensive battery all but as fast as a cheap one. Unfortunately, we/I don't know if you do understand and monitor your battery charging so the only option is to advise you to buy an open, lead acid battery of the same size and terminal position as the ones you have now. This is so it fits into your existing battery cradle. If you buy a lead-carbon or AGM battery, it will cost more and may not last any longer.
As far as lead acid batteries are concerned, it is far easier for an ordinary boater to test open cell batteries for faults than any sealed battery, although sealed ones seem to be favoured by many boaters who have difficulty accessing their batteries, yours look easy to access.
I would not buy via either major online buying sites because you don't know who is doing the selling or if such technical data they supply is true. I used a specialist battery supplier with their own website. I think it was Advanced Battery Supplies, but there are others.
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50 minutes ago, Tacet said:
Which are the Boat Wiring requirements not being complied with, please?
I fear you may be conflating a view on best practice with compliance and requirements.
I think he is referring to the BMEA requirements and probably the ISOs. I think the BSS says something about that as well. So probably not a strict legal requirement, but something that should be adhered to. If the boat is within scope of the RCD/RCR then if it was questioned I think it would be difficult to justify it as being compliant.
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34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
I just cannot see any interconnection of any of the 3 battery positive terminals.
The centre battery does have 5 cables on the negative terminal which is (at best) bad practice, and doesn't comply with the Boat Wiring specification requirements.
Having another look, I think you are probably correct. It looks a mess.
Further looking shows the batteries are rated at 60ah and 540 A EN, so I suppose that is 540A CCA. To try to answer the original question, just one of those should start the OPs engine as long as it is kept adequately charged.
Further to Blackrose's post. I can see what looks like a substantial heat sink below the blue casing, so if it is a slit charge diode it is likely to be a passive one. That in turn means there is a very good chance that it is restricting the charging to all the batteries, however, this depends upon the type of alternator and how it and other charging components are wired.
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27 minutes ago, Oz Mandius said:
Thanks Tony. No valve seen yet on the pipe work which is easily accessible, much of it runs behind the skirting board but though I suspect there’s no valves behind there I’m still going to check.
Look for upward or downward bows in the pipes that might allow them to trap air. If a pipe slopes upwards or has a vertical leg where it connects to the calorifier I would not be surprised if air was trapped there. Manipulate any bows to allow air to move to the highest point it and then loosen a connection to see if air comes out.
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I think that we need a lot more information. Steel cruiser, steel narrowboat, GRP or wood. Does the rudder stock run in the tube or between a top bearing and pintle on a skeg?
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Have you followed the pipes to the calorifier in case there is a valve? If not, I would suspect an airlock in the calorifier Webasto coil or its pipe work.
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I am not convinced they are all in parallel. I THINK the right-hand pair are, but looking at the left-hand battery positive, the lead with the yellow label does not seem to connect to the other batteries, so this one might have originally been an engine start battery.
If it is or was one start battery and two domestic batteries in parallel then the start battery negative is typically connected to the domestic bank negatives, but unless the positive is connected in the same way they are all not in parallel.
If this boat is subject to the Boat Safety Scheme inspections, then how many battery master/isolating switches do you have?
I fear that you really need to follow the cables and draw a diagram showing what they connect to, then you stand a chance of understanding the system.
As long as you have adequate charging and charging regime, there is no reason not to replace the batteries with similar for those that are only used for starting. If they are used for powering the domestic systems, then you really need to do a power/energy audit and charging calculations to ensure you have enough batery capacity.
I am not sure that you don't have a charging problem, that might be simply not enough, so the batteries are ruined.
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A run-of-the-mill wet 100Ah battery will have a Cold Cranking Amperage of around 700A or a marine cranking Amperage of around 800 amps. You must check that the case size fits your boat and that the terminals are in the same position as your existing setup.
A starting battery has a very easy life, so you don't really need anything fancy and expect 8 to 10 years out f a basic starting battery - unless you have poor charging.
1 minute ago, BEngo said:I suspect the OP's 3 batteries in parallel are/were the entire outfit of his ex lifeboat so also keep the lights on and work any radio until the motor is running.
So do I, which is why I think we need it clarified. If it is, so I suspect the lack of proper charging was the base cause.
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1 hour ago, jacko264 said:
This is correct a example of this is a cab window on a double decker bus
next to the driver
Assuming it is not a sliding window.
If the OP can get a length of suitable rubber glazing section, do you think he could cut slots in the inner face to provide drainage. I so do you think that he could use the waste in the bottom of the channel to hold the glass up a little and provide drainage to that slot.
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Three in parallel sounds much more like domestic/service batteries rather than starting batteries, unless you use the same batteries for both. I think we need you to confirm they are three stat batteries, there are other domestic batteries, and, ideally, a photo.
A single start battery of around 90 to 100 Ah should be more than enough to start that engine. (Note: Ah is not how start batteries are now designated).
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4 minutes ago, jacko264 said:
This is how a window frame etc looks like if this helps .
there is no other drip on this type of frame
Graham
Thanks, that is exactly the info the OP needs to understand his window construction. This is more or less as I suspected would be the case. I would also not be surprised if the glass has not dropped to the bottom of the frame rather than sit in the rubber section.
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29 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:
I have no need to. I’ll leave the d1ck-swinging desire to answer every post to others on here. I was just answering the original question in so far as there isn’t a missing part and that slot is just a simple frame drain. If I don’t know something, I’d rather not continually post a load of ‘what-ifs’. As I’ve said before I find it best to answer if I know something and to read, learn and say nothing if I don’t.
As you’ve asked though, anything is possible, but the work involved in being able to adapt that slot into some sort of useful drain channel unless you have the ability to fabricate and the skill and equipment to TIG weld ali aren’t worth the time involved. I’d either use it as it was intended and accept it doesn’t do much and find another way to deal with condensation, or stump up thousands for modern double glazed units.
Or a few hundred for a modern single glazed window that has a drain.
Or fit secondary double glazing, as described many times on here.
Interesting that you have swerved the OP's original question and told him much the same as I have, there was no drain channel on that window, and it is not practical for to DIY fit one. The difference is that I have tried to explain why, that you seem to have singularly failed to do
I have tried to explain this to the OP and answer his question. You dismiss my efforts of explanation as what-iffery, yet fail to give any explanation as to why the OP's supposition was incorrect and why his solution is not really practical. You just make a blank statement like "it is a simple drain" and walk away. That is not helpful to OPs who want to learn.
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8 hours ago, truckcab79 said:
Don’t over-complicate this. As I’ve said. It’s just a drain hole. Nothing more. Not a particularly efficient design but it is what it is. Very common design that’s been around forever.I have never said it was not a drain, but I read what the OP says and claims.
As you seem so sure that I have overcomplicated the OP's wish to fit another drain channel to replace the one he thinks was glued onto the frame, perhaps you would be good enough to explain to him how he can do this and how it will work to drain condensation through the existing drain. Of, and answer his original question and tell him what it is called and where to source it.
As you seem so sure about how this window works, perhaps you can explain how the glass was fitted and secured into such a wide frame channel, so the OP can have a go at recreating it if they want to.
In my view the OP is trying to modify hos frame to do something it was never designed to do.
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Hose TAIL, or hose barb
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The vent looks to me as if it is on the base of the glazing channel, if this were not so you should be able to see the cabin side through it. That suggest it is a drain for the glazing channel, but how it worked is beyond me. Maybe there was once a large rubber glazing seal instead of mastic, but how that worked with the vent I have no idea.
If there was a drip channel as you keep on about, then there would have t be holes in the existing frame vertical, so water could escape from the channel into the glazing channel, under the glass, and out of the vent. There are no such holes, so a drip channel would just fill up and overflow - as the drip channel on other windows do when the glass drops or moss/dirt blocks the holes.
I think that the blue glue once secured a wooden trim piece and has nothing to do with a drip channel. It runs up the vertical side of the frame, where there is no need for a drip channel.
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The photo is not clear enough to be sure.
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Many thanks for this full report back. It all makes sense, especially the blocked pipe down to the low level expansion tank. I think it will now prove to be OK.
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4 minutes ago, MtB said:
I was thinking they might marginally further restrict the flow of water into the prop, making cavitation slightly worse.
That is certainly a possibility, but if it restricted much I think it would ventilate because that means water would have been drawing down from the surface.
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No signs of drain holes through the inside aluminium face, and I doubt there ever was a drip channel. Plenty of signs of the use of orrible black mastic to hold the glass into the frame. I am now sure this is a DIY bodge. I would try digging out some of the black mastic to see exactly why you have there. The mastic looks wide enough to be hiding a drip channel.
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18 minutes ago, MtB said:
I'd imagine with a cavitation problem, welding on anti-ventilation plates would make no difference or could make it worse, if anything.
I agree, but not sure how it could make things worse because cavitation air/gas bubbles are caused by the prop itself making low pressure areas, not drawing air down from the surface.
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Tests to confirm the suggested diagnosis before you go pulling things apart and assuming the engine will turn by hand (spanner)
You can extend the voltmeter leads with almost any length of cable if needed.
To test for problems with the positive circuit.
Voltmeter between start battery positive and the large terminal on the starter solenoid that runs from the solenoid into the starter body. Expect battery voltage, but ignore it. Operate starter. The meter should read less than 1 volt. The higher the reading, the bigger the resistance in the circuit.
If you get more than 1 volt, transfer the connection to the other large solenoid connection and repeat. If you then get less than 1volt, the solenoid contacts are burned.
To test for problems with the negative circuit.
Voltmeter between start battery negative and the starter negative terminal, or a clean area on the starter body. Expect zero volts but ignore it. Operate the starter. The meter should read less than 1 volt. The higher the reading, the bigger the resistance in the circuit.
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1 minute ago, RaggedyVan said:
Thanks Tony, exactly as you say.
I will get a photo of the window in question when we get back. Appreciate the help
If I may observe that the photo shows a very poor quality of fit out, even though it is elderly, so I suspect it may well have been a DIY job using second hand windows. If so they could have originated in all sorts of applications. I think some GRP cruisers had aluminium window frames with no drip channel and the stick on "fabric" cabin lining was overlapped and stuck to the frame - hence the glue. However, I am having difficulty in recalling a cruiser that had narrowboat style windows, so suspect a vehicle of some sort is a more likely doner.
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10 minutes ago, magnetman said:
I meant anti ventilation plates.
Of course you did. The trouble is that those who know the difference between cavitation and ventilation on props are not as numerous who think both are the same thing.
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1 hour ago, jacko264 said:
That looks like a bus window to me
But the photo shows the required drain channel. I think this is another window, so we need a photo of the offending window.
How to chose a new starter battery?
in Boat Building & Maintenance
Posted
FWIW I understand that you can use the load output on many solar controllers to charge the start battery. perhaps someone who has done this can confirm, deny or elucidate. That gives you more solar output to charge the domestic bank during the winter, because the start battery is only discharged by a very few Ah on each start's so is nearly always very well charged (providing the engine and battery are in good order). Otherwise, I think for a lot of the time you will be wasting potential solar output. The exceptionally easy life starter batteries have is why that cheapo battery lasted 8 years.