IanD
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Posts posted by IanD
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The posh boats from Napton Narrowboats are exactly what you're looking for, wider bed and comfy chairs or sofa in the saloon -- we've hired several 4-berth versions. For example (in descending order of price and luxury):
https://www.napton-marina.co.uk/boats/regency_fleet/regency_2.php
https://www.napton-marina.co.uk/boats/elite_fleet/elite_2.php
https://www.napton-marina.co.uk/boats/explorer_fleet/explorer_2.php
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10 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
I’m more likely to pull over and hold the boat on a line if the towpath is on the left.It’s sometimes better than flirting with the bushes and shallows on the right and it feels right to be stopped if you’re being passed on the ‘wrong’ side.
So long as the boat behind knows what you're doing, it doesn't matter which side you stop/pull over to, whichever is more convenient or has deeper water or fewer trees near the edge (e.g towpath side) is fine...
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1 hour ago, Owls Den said:
Amidst all the renovations getting out cruising sometimes! Welford arm
Nice pub at the end of it... 🙂
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15 minutes ago, enigmatic said:
There's also a ballpark figure provided by Finesse in the linked article. I'm sure if you said "so what bells and whistles do they have apart from the electric propulsion and what do they cost and sounded like a customer rather than a competitor, they'd give you an answer
I am a customer, and they did... 🙂
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23 minutes ago, Owls Den said:
As a new boater to inland waterways I’m happy to stop and let others past, as I’m aware probably taking things steady could be equated to dawdling.
But this is a fairly obvious observation, and one that anyone courteous would make.
However the thread got me thinking what other canal etiquette’s are there that I may be missing?
Nothing wrong with considerate (behind you!) dawdling, it's how many people want to enjoy the canals 🙂
Always check for approaching boats before turning a lock that would be set in their favour, even if it means waiting a couple of minutes.
Share broad locks where possible to save water.
Slow down and blow your horn/listen when approaching a blind bridge/bend, and be prepared for someone barrelling through it at full speed who hasn't done the same.
The obvious ones about where not to moor up -- lock landings, water points, opposite winding holes. In popular areas, don't leave a space too small for a boat between your boat and the next one (a "git gap"), move closer and share rings if necessary/possible.
I'm sure people will come up with lots of others -- but the basic principle is to be considerate of other boaters rather than selfish... 😉
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9 minutes ago, David Mack said:
A couple of times I have had that happen, and in each case the problem was that the barrier didn't go down quite far enough to activate the switch that allows the bridge opening to happen. Jiggling the end of the barrier in its support can help.
Tried that several times, and it didn't help... 😞
(confirmed by the CRT bloke)
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17 minutes ago, Grassman said:
The most embarrassing swing bridge incident we had was in Skipton. I dropped the wife off and she put the key in and pressed the button. Once the barriers were down nothing happened. It was school turning out time and there was an immediate build up of impatient kids waiting to cross, and a long line of cars too. It took her about 3 minutes to realise that the electronics were only to operate the barriers and that the bridge had to be opened manually, by which time the air was rather blue with angry kids and motorists!
Probably not as annoyed as the swing bridge (also in Skipton) where the barriers came down but then the (motorised) bridge didn't open, and couldn't be reset or the barriers opened again. The road stayed blocked for getting on for an hour until a CART employee turned up to open up the cabinet and do whatever was needed to get it working again. He told me this was a regular occurrence, especially in hot weather... 😞
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2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:
Much as I'd like to the see the population thinned out, I can't get on board with the idea of eating anglers.
Most of the specimens I've seen are spectacularly unappealing.
And I know its not politically correct, but I do like to know when a morlock moors nearby.
I'm normally the tastiest boater in the vicinity, and so one does feel a certain vulnerability.
The tasty-to-Morlocks Eloi are happy carefree people who eat fruit and bask in the sun, so you're probably safe... 😉
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19 minutes ago, Tigerr said:
I have a dog, he sits on the semi trad seat. I nearly bought a trad stern but he wasn’t having it - he’d be around my feet and a hazard. I also like to be able to perch on the high seat with my feet on the other side seat for cruising comfort. the compromise is the engine being down in the hole which is increasingly inconvenient as gave advances.
But - for cruising with the dog - the semi trad setup is ideal.
Oh no, you've gone against the "trad is best" mafia -- expect opprobrium as a result! 😉
Different things -- including sterns -- suit different people, they all have pros and cons, and what suits one person the best won't necessarily suit another the best...
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22 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:
Exactly!
Generally the boat being overtaken slows right down, its unwise not to and isnt much different in time it takes to get anywhere but it certainly takes much less time to be overtaken. This could be why folk are objecting to shallow canals etc. Slow right down to slow tickover, move over, aim to the bank and you will be pulled back into the middle. If you go at any speed when being overtaken then you are asking for trouble.
This isnt a car being overtaken scenario. By several peoples suggestions on here they may tend to dawdle, so a slower dawdle to let someone past isnt asking much.
I fear some on here maybe the sort of person that deliberately speed up when being overtaken by another car.
Or tows a caravan with a long tail of traffic behind it and never pulls over to let it pass, or drives in the overtaking lane at 70mph when the other lane is empty... 😞
It's really not difficult -- if there's a boat on your tail who you're obviously holding up, then when there's enough space and water to do so pull over (as described above) and let them pass, it'll make everybody's day better.
If you don't then you're the one being selfish and inconsiderate, not the boat behind who happens to want to progress faster than you... 😉
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14 hours ago, MtB said:
In my experience this is a risky business strategy as it inevitably leads to the next customer saying "Well you did it for "£x" for him, why not for me?"
Or in my field back in the day, the same customer saying "You did it for for £x last time, same again please." Hard to argue against without souring the business relationship.
Nowadays I make sure of a healthy profit from day one on anything I do or I turn the business down.
I never said that I'd been told that such a deal had been done, or the exact price that the customer paid, I just know that such deals are not uncommon where the supplier sees value in either the publicity or the experience -- and what's certain is that this particular boat got a *lot* of attention. Maybe the customer got a good deal because of this, or maybe they got charged the full whack given the depth of their pockets...
I was simply told what it might cost if I wanted a similar boat (and Peter's £500k is not a bad estimate), which involves no confidentiality or ethical issues, and is what you'd have thought would be of interest to people interested in boats rather than arguing for the sake of it... 😉
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31 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
It's totally fine to ask that. If I were him though I'd tell you what it would cost you if he built another rather than what the one he sold actually sold for. Of course they may be the same number. I think there is some implied confidentiality in the specifics of a contract purely on ethical grounds, unless you know both parties are fine with those details being divulged, which again may be the case.
What you said is exactly what I asked, as I thought I'd made clear -- I'm always careful to respect confidentiality, if you don't then nobody will tell you anything in future 🙂
Probably not exactly the same number anyway given the time difference, and it's also not uncommon to effectively give a discount to the first person to try out something new because it acts as a high-profile demonstrator -- but this is speculation, whether this happened with Time of Life is between Ricky and the customer... 😉
(But I've done deals like this in the past in other fields, both supplier and customer win)
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17 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
It obviously is the sellers information but it's not solely their information. There is no data protection law against it but it could be considered unethical.
I have no vested interest in the historic sale prices of any boat I move. I need to know the broad current value for insurance purposes and customers or brokers will divulge that information. What they sell for isn't my business and I don't know any more than anybody viewing those boats online. I may be told the value assigned by a 'broker' to a part exchange boat or the price of one they have bought outright. That is their business to divulge if they wish.
I've also had a customer declare their boat moving costs on social media and that included costs they paid to the broker for fueling the boat before departure.
I'm not disagreeing with you about the ethics but it's not really a discussion that's worthwhile on this forum. It's a matter that only directly relates to a parties that aren't members.
When I'm having a boat built ('ow much?!?!?), it's perfectly ethical to ask the builder "How much more would one like Time of Life cost?" -- just like asking "How much extra would a Josher bow and inset side panels and rivets like that one over there cost?", or "how much extra for the 35kWh LFP battery over the 20kWh one?".
I know all these figures, but they're between me and Ricky -- if anyone else wants to know, why not hand over a large sum of money to show you're serious and then ask him yourself? 😉
(I did tell someone privately and in confidence how much my boat cost, because he was looking at getting a similar one built -- however that's my business and his, not the forums...)
Methinks somebody on here is just trying to pick an argument rather than make any useful contribution to the forum... 😉
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6 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:
As I said earlier, that would be the case if the canals were dredged to the same depth across their entire width, but they aren't. The only deep bit is in the middle (on most narrow canals) and when you put two boats travelling in the same direction, neither of them will be in the deepest bit so both will be slowed down. 'Co-operation' involves one boat stopping and moving to the side (probably holding it on the centre line whilst standing on the bank), anything else is just a poor compromise.
I've passed boats quite a few times on various canals and they've never had to get off with a centre line, just pull over and usually slow down to tickover (to keep steerage way) or stop (if that's what they prefer). Never had a problem with a bit of forethought and co-operation, as you pass they get pulled back out into the canal behind you. But then I've never tried to do this on a narrow/shallow section of canal, because that would be dumb...
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6 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:
[snip]
A while back I had to force my way past a boat on the Grand Union that was travelling at a speed that my boat simply could not cruise at. I'd spent over an hour behind him constantly going from drive into neutral and finally on a clear straight stretch decided to overtake as he wasn't going to invite me to do so. The effect is that as the pressure wave from your bow hits his stern, his bow then starts to go to port (towards your boat). As the pressure wave then travels along his boat to his bow, it pushes it away from you, and in this case he ended out in the reeds. Can't say I felt particularly good about it, but constantly going into and out of drive, as I was doing, cannot be good for the boat. I suppose that, as others have suggested, I could simply have stopped and had lunch or a coffee break, or something, but the speed he was going, even if I'd stopped for half an hour, I'd still have caught him up again.
And that is exactly the problem -- he must have been aware that you'd been on his tail for an hour, so why didn't he invite you to pass? At most places on the GU (with no moored boats!) this can be done with no big problem with a bit of co-operation. I've passed boats like this on multiple occasions (and occasionally been passed...) with no problem, and a friendly "thank you".
If he ended up in the reeds, this was his fault for being obstructive, not yours for overtaking.
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2 minutes ago, Goliath said:
not sure I was trying to be witty
just suggesting you could help your fellow boaters
rather than berating them
I wasn't berating them -- you wondered how other people think, and I was pointing out how some of them round here seem to think. Or not... 😉
If you're willing to go up to an unknown boater (who may not react well to criticism from a passerby) and tell them how they're moored wrongly and how they ought to do it, you're a braver man than I am... 🙂
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4 minutes ago, Tacet said:
Agreed. It's odd when those....who think it is not a race/why the hurry/take the train if you're in a rush... are themselves sufficiently short of time to preclude letting me by
It's not being short of time, it's the arrogant assumption that since they are happy to pootle along slowly, everyone else should be too -- because they're *right*...
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Just now, Goliath said:
Well maybe you should tell them how to do it correctly.
Take a flip chart with you next time and demonstrate through diaYou need to take a flip chart on your rounds and demonstrate with diagrams the errors they are making.
Im sure they’d appreciate your help.Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit... 😉
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5 minutes ago, Goliath said:
🤷♀️ Could be their thinking.
Personally I’d be putting ropes out to goat chains to be more secure if leaving the boat.
And wouldn’t leave it anywhere I thought weren’t secure.
but yeah, who knows how other folk think.There are plenty of people along here (GU Paddington Arm) who use mooring spikes with ropes at almost 90 degrees to the bank and leave the boat. Every time a widebeam/working boat has been along I see them drifted out right across the canal with a hole in the bank where their mooring spikes used to be...
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12 minutes ago, David Mack said:
I used to do the same, and if the other boat does likewise, the boats pass inches apart and as the sterns pass they pull both boats back into line.
But these days, boating on an ex-working boat, I always move over to my right some time before I actually meet the opposing boat. If I don't, but just carry on steaming up the middle of the canal, most opposing boaters take avoiding action long before it is needed and huddle off to the side, leaving the centre of the channel clear for me to carry on through. And then people complain about 'arrogant working boaters' that won't give way to other craft! You can't win!
I do the same as @Wanderer Vagabond -- sometimes if you move over too early (like you do) they do the same (far too early!), then as they move off to the side the water sometimes gets shallower which pushes them away from the bank and back towards the middle, then they panic and go astern and lose all steerage way and the bow of their boat swings across the canal as they try to slow down, then you have to go hard astern to stop hitting them... 😞
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7 minutes ago, Goliath said:
I’m moored now with my ropes going the other way
simply, for me, because of the bollard spacing.
But My ropes (I think, I’ll look when I get back) are also set less than 45.
My boat will travel gently forward and back maybe a foot, maybe two🤷♀️
But I like it, I have some nice tyre fenders so it’s okMain thing is the boat doesn’t pull away from the bank, that’s horrible.
But a gentle forward and back I find pleasant.
so I think it’s safe to say the less angle the tighter you’ll stay to the bank but more likely to go back and forth.
the wider the angle the less likely you’ll go back and forth but you will swing out from the bank.
But, you know all that any way Arthur. My simple answer is the bollards have dictated for me how my ropes point the other way. Perhaps it the same for the boats you’ve observed? And by the way I can’t be assed putting out a springer line because I like the boat movement.
The problem is that as the angle of the lines gets lower than 45 degrees this multiplies the force in the ropes and on the moorings -- not a problem with rings, but not a good idea with mooring spikes, especially in softer ground. The boat moves back and forth and the increased force and movement pulls the spikes loose, and eventually they come out -- ropes at 90 degrees to spikes is a recipe for disaster... 😞
Having the ropes pointing inwards instead of outwards (closer together on bank than on boat) works almost as well as outwards, but can rub paint off if they touch the cabin. DAMHIK...
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22 minutes ago, Paul C said:
There's probably a mathematical way to prove it, but I think 45deg minimises boat movement, based on a narrowboat-shaped-boat (ie a rectangle with slight boat-like shape front and almost no curves at the rear).
Would be interesting if these examples you've seen are on rings or pins - pins there's no excuse, on rings then I will compromise on an angle between about 20deg-70deg before going to ring + (nappy) pin.
It depends how big the forces are in the two directions (fore-and-aft and laterally) that the rope is trying to resist and stop movement in. At 45 degrees the "stiffness" is the same in both directions at 70% of the rope tension. But for a moored boat being passed by a moving one, most of the pull on the boat is likely to be fore-and-aft not away from the bank, so it would be better to have the ropes at a smaller angle to the bank -- for example if they're at 30 degrees (further away from bow and stern) instead of 45 degrees the stiffness is 87% fore-and-aft (24% higher) but 50% laterally (29% lower). Going much further out than this (lower than 30 degrees) doesn't give much gain in the fore-and-aft stiffness but loses a lot more lateral stiffness. The shape of the hull affects this a bit, but not by much for a long thin narrowboat.
The best option of all is to have two ropes at each end, one at 90 degrees to prevent lateral movement (with some slack if there might be level changes), and one parallel with the bank (a spring line) to prevent fore-and-aft movement, but this needs either four stakes/rings in the right places (ropes to bow T-stud and stern dollies) or four attachment points on the boat (eyes on the gunwales spaced in from bow/stern) -- that's what I've had fitted.
Just ropes at 90 degrees is a terrible idea, there's little resistance to any fore-and-aft movement which causes massive stresses in the ropes and pulls on mooring stakes -- they'll usually pull out as the boat moves fore and aft by large amounts... 😞
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5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
I can't see why a manufacturer would be obliged to hold back their offer price or their actual build costs for any product they can offer or have offered. It's their information to do what they want with.
Correct. And for obvious reasons they're also much more likely to be open with a customer spending a 6-digit sum with them than a keyboard warrior spoiling for an argument... 😉
But like the technical details of a new boat design that they've invested a lot of time and effort getting to, they can also ask that this isn't made public.. 🙂
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Just now, system 4-50 said:
Keep away from deer, they carry ticks. I was bitten by one 8 weeks ago and it is still a patch of itching spots.
You were bitten by a deer? Blimey, they must be vicious where you are... 🙂
A polite plea to dawdlers.
in General Boating
Posted
If you can't see that there's a long enough clear stretch without a boat coming the other way, it's not really sensible to allow an overtaking manoeuvre anyway...