Harkers archive ???

[David B]

Hi John V,

 

I'm David Babsky, whom you mentioned in your search for info about my long lost love "Sabina H"! (..And how nice to read a message from Andymaz, whom I remember well, as I took several photos of him and his boat - and mine - along with a bottle of Badedas ..for some long-forgotten and surreal purpose!

 

A boater called Brian Banks bought me - probably around 1974 - that book "Tankers Knottingley" (mentioned by "FadeToScarlet" which does have details of Sabina's builder, I think.

 

It's sad to see that photo - immediately above that post - of Sabina's engine room ..you say "..The Glennifer had been under water so many times.." but I know of only one time, after I'd gone up to Manchester around 1990 to see my parents, and some children on the Isle of Dogs had chucked off the deck some loose bollards, which she then sat down on at next low water, and which punched a hole in her (rather fragile) bottom.

 

After she'd filled with water a friend called Tim Ryan - who had the use of Cubitt's slipway at Woolwich, which I think may be in that upper photo above the picture of her engine room - bought her from me, and he and his pals pumped her, refloated her, took her down to Cubitt's and tidied her up, and sold her to a chap called Bill Someone-or-other, who then moored her in Barking Creek. And that's the last I saw of her.

 

I had bought her from Peter Horlock - I remember his saying that I should sleep aboard her for a night before taking full possession of her - and I then motored her round, in two stages, from Mistley ..first to Brightlingsea and then to Kingston upon Thames.. where I certainly lived aboard her, but I also took her out for cruises up and down the Thames (she had a hook on the back, so I could take her through the locks at "commercial" rate!) and several times used her to rescue other vessels who'd had misfortunes (engine problems or sinking problems) until I took her downstream to moor first at Ham (below Kingston) and then at Poplar Dock, just before the London Docklands Development Corporation took over the docks. When they did, I took her outside the dock, into the river, and moored at New Concordia Wharf, just downstream of the Gun pub.

 

I could write reams (remember those?) about Sabina, and I'll look for some photos of her ..ah; here's one, which my friends took at our "Three Boat Surprise Party" at Kingston - around 1975 - but having only just arrived at this Canalworld site a few minutes ago this afternoon (..I was looking for something completely different..) it'll take me a day or so to find the other and to work out how to post it, or them, here. Or perhaps I could send copies of them directly to you, John.

 

I'm so glad to have discovered that Sabina's alive and well! I can tell you that she really was a very manoeuvrable vessel, and so easy to get alongside, to spin around on a sixpence - doing a "three-point-turn" - and so simple to move single-handedly that she was a real pleasure and a joy to navigate.

 

Please give her my love, and a kiss from me, as I had some really wonderful times on board Sabina, and I was so sorry that vandals sent her down to the (not very deep) river bed. But times move on, and I had to then look after my folks, and so wouldn't have been able to maintain her any longer.

 

I hope you get great pleasure from belonging to her! ..Yours, David.

[Giant]

I can hopefully add a little to that - "Bill Someone-or-other" of Barking Creek would likely be Bill Blaik, who ran the boatyard here for many years and then, after that had closed, managed the moorings here until he retired a couple of years ago.

[David B]

That sounds right: Bill Blaik (or Blake) ..yes! I saw Sabina moored at Barking Creek, and meant to go and see Bill to explain to him how to start the engine: the bronze air-motor cog - which engaged with the Glennifer flywheel - was rather worn and stripped, so I always engaged it manually before opening the air bottle(s) and the air valve to spin the flywheel and start the engine. If one just opened the air valve the bronze cog would flirt along its shaft - like a car starter-motor's shaft - but then usually just grind against the flywheel instead of engaging with the flywheel's own teeth ..wearing away the soft bronze cog even more! ..A trick shown to me by Peter Horlock, I think.

 

It was a lovely engine: I anchored once (..can't remember why..) on the south (Rotherhithe) bank (of the Thames) near the Prospect of Whitby, and someone rowed - or motored - out from Woodward Fisher's wharf and repair shop by the Prospect (at Wapping) and asked me if I had engine trouble. I can't remember if I did or not, but when they asked what engine it was, and I said a Glennifer, they said "come and have a look at these; we've got loads of Glennifer spares: come and help yourself!" ..and they took me ashore (on the other bank) and gave me the run of their engineering workshop.

 

The only trouble was, mine (Sabina's) was a Glennifer DB4, and all their (tug) spares were for the DB6 ..all a bit too large to fit Sabina's engine!

 

And writing of tugs, I went down to Sittingbourne Creek once, for a pair of ..we-ell, not "rogues", but, term, chaps who earned their livings buying and selling boats.. as they wanted me to tow back a small tug they'd bought down there. When I moored up there was a much larger tug nearby, and whoever was on it asked if I'd like to come on board. It had a Widdup engine (6 cyl, I think) which was the same make as the 3 cyl Widdup (around 30hp I think) which was originally fitted to Sabina, before it was taken out and the Glennifer fitted in - I can't remember which year, but the Glennifer was a better 56hp, so that it could make headway - or be safer - in tidal water.

 

This tug's air-start Widdup was, however, HUGE ..and didn't have a gearbox, but had to be stopped and restarted backwards in order to go astern.

 

Anyway, I towed back the smaller tug which Marine & General had asked me to retrieve ..I don't remember its name, but Andymaz (above) had a tug originally named "Pullit" (..one of a set of Pullit, Draggit, Heaveit, etc..) which my friend Ken Gladstone had renamed "Mercedes", and which Andy had bought from him.

 

I can go on for hours like this in similar vein, but I've gotta stop now, as we're due to go out to a birthday party. I haven't managed to contact John V, apart from "befriending" him on this bulletin board or forum, and I've no other idea about how to draw his attention to these posts or to announce myself to him. Now the cat's arrived for lunch, so I'd better go and feed him..

[John V]

Thank you all for these last posts.....I have been off the boards for a while due to health/personal problems......why do these things always come in groups and do their best to overwhelm you

 

Very pleased to make your acquaintance David, be warned, you have let yourself in for a lot of brain picking!!! I will be in hospital shortly and I suspect any visits to the site over the next 6 or 7 weeks will be a bit sporadic

 

Thank you Giant for your comments, Yes Bill Blaik,.......A character....... enough said on a public site

Edited March 17, 2015 by John V

[David B]

Glad to have found you, John. Give all my best to Sabina, and maybe one day I'll be able to pay her a visit. Meanwhile, I'm still rooting around for photos of her of you. If you want to get in touch with me person-to-person, my address is my name all in lowercase, without any spaces or dots, at blueyonder.co.uk ..hoping you keep well, Yours, David.

[Giant]

John,

 

I don't know if you ever acquired a copy of "Tankers Knottingley", but we just got one. In the back of it is a quite comprehensive list of Harker's vessels.

 

Sabina H is listed as being built in 1929 by Dunstons. The table also gives her official number 163184. 75 tons, 66'6" x 16'6" x 6'5", sold in 1959.

 

Edit: I would add that this builder would be consistent with other vessels of that period. There were 8 motor barges built by Dunstons for Harkers in 1925-1928, and none that I can see from other builders. This pattern only stops when Harkers got their own yard in late 1929.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Giant

[John V]

Thank you for that ......My memory must have been faulty as I was convinced that Dunstons weren't the builder.

 

I have been trying to get a copy of Tankers Knottingly for a while but without success.

 

According to Mike Taylor in "Tanker barges on the Humber waterways" Sabina was originally built in1929 as a dumb barge of 100 tons and was motorised at a later date and her tonnage reduced to 80 tons.

 

I must admit I am intrigued by the thought that she was built as a dumb barge and later motorised, as the whole of the back end must have been rebuilt..

Many of the boats that I have seen that were motorised after launch have a shaft that is set off to one side of the stem but Sabina's prop shaft is central with the plates formed around and the propeller in a space within the deadwood and an unbalanced rudder mounted on the end of the deadwood as you would expect on a sailing or dumb barge. It must have been a very extensive re-build and an expensive job virtually all the shaped plates on the stern would have to be replaced and the stem/deadwood itself......presumably by then it would have been done in one of their own yards

[Giant]

They would certainly have had the capability to do it, and having their own yard it would be at cost. But I do wonder if perhaps that information in Mike Taylor's book is inaccurate. It would be surprising for there to be no trace at all of the change to the structure, and you've certainly had it to bits enough to tell!

 

By the way, if she was built by Dunston's then you might have more luck with archive material. I know for one thing that a lot of their plans went to the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich. There is also some material in the National Archives at Doncaster: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/004b96ff-db9e-4482-9b7d-46884e83e037- including "Yard Books 1924 - 1957".

 

Edit to add: and their yard lists for 1928 onwards are at the Hull Martime Museum - that should conclusively settle whether Sabina H was built there. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/N13594185

Edited January 10, 2016 by Giant