RYA Helmsman Course

[Tillerman]

Think its about time I did one (after all these years!)

Anyone recomend a good person/company who offer this as either one or two day course?

Location not a problem.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

[Diane]

Hi Tillerman

 

I've just booked for a one day course with Top Lock Training at Marple Nr Stockport. They were recommended to me by Allan W, you could PM him for more info or alternatively their website is www.toplocktraining.co.uk.

 

Good Luck

 

Xxx

[alant]

Think its about time I did one (after all these years!)

Anyone recomend a good person/company who offer this as either one or two day course?

Location not a problem.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

We had a great day at willow wren (rugby)

 

Alan.

[David Schweizer]

Whist I would not want to belittle any training that improves an individual's ability to operate a boat safely, I do wonder about these RYA courses. One day for how many people?

 

When I undertook the Board of Trade Boatmaster's Licence training, it was spread over a period of six months requiring at least three hours practical training per week and about fifteen hours classroom instruction, including First Aid and Life Saving Instruction. I then had to undergo about two hours practical assessment by an Ex Merchant Navy Captain, plus about an hours oral examination before I was issued with my licence. Now maybe the outfit I did my training with went a bit overboard, but at least I felt I had actually achived something when finally passed rather than a few hours jolly with some amiable bloke.

 

I have seen some of the so called traing boats and their instructors and I just get the feeling that a lot of outfits are jumping on the bandwagon just to make a few extra bob , without really doing anything really worthwhile. and will your Insurance Company recognise this as specialist training? My Boatmasters Licence qualifies me for a significant discount. That's the acid test.

 

Grump over!!!

[howardang]

Whist I would not want to belittle any training that improves an individual's ability to operate a boat safely, I do wonder about these RYA courses. One day for how many people?

 

When I undertook the Board of Trade Boatmaster's Licence training, it was spread over a period of six months requiring at least three hours practical training per week and about fifteen hours classroom instruction, including First Aid and Life Saving Instruction. I then had to undergo about two hours practical assessment by an Ex Merchant Navy Captain, plus about an hours oral examination before I was issued with my licence. Now maybe the outfit I did my training with went a bit overboard, but at least I felt I had actually achived something when finally passed rather than a few hours jolly with some amiable bloke.

 

I have seen some of the so called traing boats and their instructors and I just get the feeling that a lot of outfits are jumping on the bandwagon just to make a few extra bob , without really doing anything really worthwhile. and will your Insurance Company recognise this as specialist training? My Boatmasters Licence qualifies me for a significant discount. That's the acid test.

 

Grump over!!!

David, I wouldn't get too miffed about the difference in standard and training betwen a BM and the RYA Inland Helmsmans certificate. As you know, the latter is primarily concentrating on elementary boat handling where the former is a much broader based certificate aimed at a much higher level with the primary aim of protecting the public on passenger vessels on the inland waterways. I think your satisfaction in obtaing the BM certificate should remain undiminished!

 

Regards

 

Howard Anguish

[twoputtyrats]

We had a great day at willow wren (rugby)

 

Alan.

 

Good to hear that - we're booked with them on the 21st of next month.. They run a maximum of 3 people on a course, so that's me the OH and our 14 year old son...

 

Simon.

[Diane]

Top Lock is much the same but at the moment it's just me & hubby on the 29th!

 

Xxx

[BGA]

I recently did a RYA inland waterways course (one day) and whilst it was a lovely day out pottering up and down a section of canal. There was no river work with any sort of current to deal with, tidal river to deal with (which I suppose could be argued is similar to fast flowing current), no twin screw work. Yes there were useful hints on boat handling (narrow boat) but I wouldn't feel competant to handle a lot of the situations likely to be met on the inland waterways based purely on this course. I suppose I'm suggesting you look for a course based near a river as well as canal, ask how many will be taking the course with you ( don't accept a course with more than two or three others), ask questions whilst your'e doing the course, you won't be an expert at everything when you're done but you will have the basics, but most of all ENJOY.

[John Orentas]

Like training of all kinds all you can expect of a short course is to be shown the basics and to be given confidence to carry on learning, it will be up to you from then on.

[David Schweizer]

I recently did a RYA inland waterways course (one day) and whilst it was a lovely day out pottering up and down a section of canal. There was no river work with any sort of current to deal with, tidal river to deal with (which I suppose could be argued is similar to fast flowing current), no twin screw work. Yes there were useful hints on boat handling (narrow boat) but I wouldn't feel competant to handle a lot of the situations likely to be met on the inland waterways based purely on this course. I suppose I'm suggesting you look for a course based near a river as well as canal, ask how many will be taking the course with you ( don't accept a course with more than two or three others), ask questions whilst your'e doing the course, you won't be an expert at everything when you're done but you will have the basics, but most of all ENJOY.

I think you have illustrated one of the points I was making very well BGA. From my observations many of the RYA courses are run by well meaning enthusiasts who have little or no proper traning in how to instruct, adults, and just like the early days of the Mountain Leadership Certificate, some instructors seem to impart quite a lot of their own views as to how things should be done, rather than adheres strictly to a formatted sylabus. I have actually heard of some instructors giving advice, based entirely on their own opinion, to students which is contrary to the instruction we recieved on the Boat Masters Licence Training.

 

We seem to live in a world today where anyone who can string more than five words together without making a gramatical error, is considered to be an expert in something and automaticly capable of training others in any subject where they themselves have limited knowledge. Personally I prefer any training I receive to be delivered by someone who can not only prove they know the subject inside out , but can also teach. I do however, recognise that some courses are run by instructors who hold a Board of Trade Licence, at least those people can claim to have satisfied a recognised assesment body that they know their subject.

 

End of second rant!!

[AllanW]

I think you have illustrated one of the points I was making very well BGA. From my observations many of the RYA courses are run by well meaning enthusiasts who have little or no proper traning in how to instruct... (snip) some instructors seem to impart quite a lot of their own views as to how things should be done, rather than adheres strictly to a formatted sylabus...

 

Hi David

 

Can't agree more - and that's why I chose who I did a couple of months back (I'm a qualified trainer in my own field btw, so knew the questions to ask before deciding). The person I chose also teaches the Boatmasters course - and provides advanced waterways and boat handling training for BW employees too

 

On the two day course the instructor followed the RYA sylabus properly (there's an RYA checksheet), and the comments outside that sylabus were aimed at expanding on *why* certain things were happening (for example bank effect) and *how* (for example) water behaves in a lock, rather than the usual 'hire company' type instructions of 'open this paddle first and that one second...'

 

There was also a properly set up 'classroom' with models and examples, and the boat itself was specially converted for training - it was a full 57 foot semi trad, but with a short cabin which allows you to see what's happening to the boat rather than what's happening to the roof

 

Another good aspect of the course included the instructor pointing out things that other boaters were doing (things I had been doing for years as well!) and how easily these actions could have got them (me) in trouble or hurt should something go wrong. Much more instructive that just 'do it this way...'

 

In fact the whole RYA course is based on making cruising, mooring and locking not only safer - but easier! The novice would learn much - but an experienced boater might just learn more!

 

In summary - The cost for the course is only about the same as a day boat hire, and I believe that my money was well invested, and that the two day course with only two 'trainees' represented the best way to take the certificate (I think a one day course might just be a little too rushed btw). One unexpected bonus for me was that the course took place on a beautiful part of the network and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it...

 

BTW - the trainer has indeed refused certificates to those who were unable to satisfy the criteria (unlike some places I've heard of!)

 

I have no connection with the organiser/trainers of this course, but PM me if anyone want's more details!

 

Allan

Edited July 25, 2006 by AllanW

[David Schweizer]

That sounds more like the sort of course I would expect, and clearly the agency were undertakling their training role responsibly. Rather different to the six people I saw recently on a scruffy old tub all stood around the back end blocking the view of the steerer. What is more the boat actually had the name of the agency painted on the side, together with a painted panel brazenly advertising the fact that it was engaged in RYA Helmsman training.

Edited July 25, 2006 by David Schweizer

[Stephen Fulcher]

It is always pointless going on and passing a course if you do not actually learn anything. The course Allan describes sounds good. Not too many people on it, and long enough to mean each participant can gain a decent amount of time at the helm, and learn as well.

[howardang]

I think you have illustrated one of the points I was making very well BGA. From my observations many of the RYA courses are run by well meaning enthusiasts who have little or no proper traning in how to instruct, adults, and just like the early days of the Mountain Leadership Certificate, some instructors seem to impart quite a lot of their own views as to how things should be done, rather than adheres strictly to a formatted sylabus. I have actually heard of some instructors giving advice, based entirely on their own opinion, to students which is contrary to the instruction we recieved on the Boat Masters Licence Training.

 

We seem to live in a world today where anyone who can string more than five words together without making a gramatical error, is considered to be an expert in something and automaticly capable of training others in any subject where they themselves have limited knowledge. Personally I prefer any training I receive to be delivered by someone who can not only prove they know the subject inside out , but can also teach. I do however, recognise that some courses are run by instructors who hold a Board of Trade Licence, at least those people can claim to have satisfied a recognised assesment body that they know their subject.

 

End of second rant!!

 

Board of Trade certificate, David. Blimey, you must be a very old sea dog. The Board of Trade stopped issuing certificates many years ago Since then the Ministry of Transport, The Department of Transport both issued them before the present set up where they are issued by or on behalf of the MCA (Maritime & Coastguard Agency).

 

Regards

 

Howard Anguish

[David Schweizer]

Board of Trade certificate, David. Blimey, you must be a very old sea dog. The Board of Trade stopped issuing certificates many years ago Since then the Ministry of Transport, The Department of Transport both issued them before the present set up where they are issued by or on behalf of the MCA (Maritime & Coastguard Agency).

 

Regards

 

Howard Anguish

That may well be the case Howard, but my Licence, which is similar to the old fashioned Passport was issued in 1997 and has a light blue hard cover with the title Board of Trade Boatmaster's Licence very clearly impressed in gold leaf on the front. Cardiff Office were clearly still using old stock.

Edited July 25, 2006 by David Schweizer

[twoputtyrats]

I never followed up on our day with Willow Wren...

 

Really good day, Andy and the three of us on his clearly marked training boat - we spent a good 8 hours out on it - including the lunch provided. Andy was really good company and we all got on well with his tuition style and really enjoyed the day (even our 14 year old - which is normally a challenge).... He only takes 3 on a course usually and you all take turns in doing each of the exercises as you work your way down the Oxford canal from Rugby.... The three of us steered the whole day withonly verbal instruction from Andy...

 

wouldn't hesitate to reccomend it - top day....

 

Simon.

Edited September 7, 2006 by twoputtyrats

[TUTORDAN]

I think you have illustrated one of the points I was making very well BGA. From my observations many of the RYA courses are run by well meaning enthusiasts who have little or no proper traning in how to instruct, adults, and just like the early days of the Mountain Leadership Certificate, some instructors seem to impart quite a lot of their own views as to how things should be done, rather than adheres strictly to a formatted sylabus. I have actually heard of some instructors giving advice, based entirely on their own opinion, to students which is contrary to the instruction we recieved on the Boat Masters Licence Training.

 

We seem to live in a world today where anyone who can string more than five words together without making a gramatical error, is considered to be an expert in something and automaticly capable of training others in any subject where they themselves have limited knowledge. Personally I prefer any training I receive to be delivered by someone who can not only prove they know the subject inside out , but can also teach. I do however, recognise that some courses are run by instructors who hold a Board of Trade Licence, at least those people can claim to have satisfied a recognised assesment body that they know their subject.

 

End of second rant!!

 

Hello David,

 

You might guess from my handle that I am a tutor - and yes - an RYA Instructor and Examiner for Motor Cruising (trumpet is now stowed away). I have had a lot to do with RYA Instructors (in open water) over the last 12 years since I qualified and I must say that the majority of them are good at their job. However, there is little national support for these skills and the pay rates are (like most recreational sectors) pretty poor. This does little to enthuse Instructors but the ones whom I have met and worked with have a great esprit de corps and always give of their best. The RYA does its best to police their levels of competence but cannot cope with the numbers out there.

 

It's hard (and probably wrong) to compare such recreational activities with professional pursuits (my own was 30 years with the Royal Navy) but I think I can now see it from both sides. If allowed to give it, my advice to those who want to do a helmsmans course would be to base your choice of RYA Training Centre on its reputation. Bad news travels far faster than good so this should help you decide which ones not to go to. And that's why this forum is such an excellent vehicle!

 

PS When I get my boat - in mid-07- I intend to take my Inland Waterways Instructor's assessment - not that I will start a (nother) business but it would be good to see for myself how the IW RYA Instructors operate.

 

Keep in touch.

 

TUTORDAN

[Smudge]

We did our RYA last year with Ray Cullis of Trent Boat Handling. He is fully trained and an ex water policeman. He took us out on the tidal Trent with our own boat and as well as teaching us about handling a NB on tidal water he also went over what we already knew giving tips as to how to make the job easier, ie mooring in a strong current. He also brought a white board with him so he could do a 'classroom' session.

What he taught us was invaluable when we came back from West Stockwith after doing the Chesterfield Canal later that year, as we were on a spring tide! I truly think we would have been in trouble without his teachings.

[minimoman]

Think its about time I did one (after all these years!)

Anyone recomend a good person/company who offer this as either one or two day course?

Location not a problem.

[unquote]

 

We did a one day course at 'Toplock' and had a very enjoyable day. They will only do two people per day so plenty of time for each of you to do the driving.

The only negative I can think of is instead of a cabined boat they use an open fronted boat. Great to see the bows but not so great when you get out on your own boat and can see virtually nothing. All in all a very good experience though.

 

Forgot to mention that this is purely for canals, not for river work.

Edited January 25, 2007 by minimoman

[Jason King]

I spent two days with Wildcat Enterprises, based near Banbury. The instruction was good and I learned some valuable lessons but whatever you do don't stay on the boat overnight, it's a tip!