Another 12v issue

[Martin]

Let me first give a brief outline of the system - basic but it works (or at least used to)...

90amp alternator feeds just the domestic bank - 6 x 110AH Elecsols.

This feeds lighting and 240v stuff through a Sterling 1800W inverter.

 

Everything was fine until a few weeks ago when we noticed a lack of voltage after charging.

I checked the batteries and found that two were dry - the two that lie beneath the propshaft and are tricky to get to.

I had checked electrolyte levels in the others regularly but these were the two that I had coincidentally attached the breather pipe to.

I refilled the batteries but have probably knackered at least one cell in each as I can't get the voltage to stay above 9.something volts.

I took the two knackered ones out of the system.

 

Things partly improved and we ought to be able to cope easily with the four remaining ones - six was always overkill!

 

However...

I charge the batteries (14.0 volts gets to the batteries) and at the start, the ammeter goes off the scale (it always has as it only reads to +/- 50A!)

In fact it never left the top of the scale unless we spent a good few hours cruising which we don't often do.

We noticed a couple of weeks ago that we were running out of power very early in the evening compared to before - the inverter cut out due to under-voltage.

Investigation showed that the charge from the alternator was dropping to 20A after about 15 minutes - decreasing the longer the engine ran.

I had the alternator reconditioned so this now has a new regulator.

14.0 volts still gets to the batteries and even after shutting down the engine and waiting 15 minutes or so, the voltage on each battery is still 12.8v or over.

This doesn't point to additional knackered cells.

 

This must be connected to my running two dry batteries in the bank but I don't see how.

Is it possible that I have somehow damaged the batteries so that they no longer accept their full charge?

It is almost like I have a total of 110AH instead of 660AH - could I have knackered something to make each battery now hold only 30AH???

Yes - I have checked all the connections and nothing else seems to have altered.

 

Any clues?

[John Orentas]

Martin.

 

It is hard to make any suggestions, you seem to have covered everything. It does sound to me however you have a simple case of natural ageing (the batteries that is).

 

I have a theory that a 110 a/h battery loses half it's capacity as you take it out of the shop, in all honesty I have never been able to rationalise the claimed capacities of batteries. You should be able to leave 9 amps of lighting switched on for 12 hours on one battery, I know from experience it doesn't work.

 

The charging characteristics you describe are consistant with a bank of aging batteries. So as you indicated your units may well now be down to the last 25% of their capacity.

 

Almost as an aside, are the batts' in a heated part of the boat, mine are in an un-heated part of the engine room and I know that in very cold weather they are very reluctant to take a full charge.

 

John Squeers

[Martin]

The batteries are located under the floor in the back cabin and so they do get heat from the engine but cooling from the bilge - nothing too extreme either way.

Your reply is helpful John - certainly in confirming my suspicions that I may somehow have prematurely aged the batteries.

They are in fact not much over two years old so under normal conditions should have a way to go.

Elecsols are (or at least were) covered by at least a three year warranty and while I obviously can't plead ignorance with the ones I ran dry, the other four didn't suffer the same fate and I will get Elecsol to look at them at least.

 

M

[John Orentas]

Hi Martin.

 

I would still try it on if I were you, nothing to loose. Years ago the 'top of the range' and industrial batteries could be repaired I had one on my last boat that was out of a stacker truck, it had one cell 'machined out' and a new one bonded in.

 

John Squeers

Edited December 16, 2004 by John Orentas

[Martin]

The latest in this sorry saga...

 

Unfitted all six batteries and took them to "Harry's" boatyard in Drayton aka Holidays Afloat.

Drop tested them all and all were found to have faulty cells - not enough to register only 9v or anything, but faulty enough to severely limit capacity.

Connected them again overnight.

Charged them on Tuesday prior to taking them back to Limekiln Chandlers.

Drove 30m to Limekiln to discover that they don't sell them anymore.

Limekiln told me I would have to contact Elecsol direct.

They also suggested that using an inverter would destroy the batteries and the bearded guy in charge says he wouldn't have one!

He also said that he thought the four year warranty on Elecsols was too optimistic and that it should be only two!

This was after they sold me the things in the first place and I followed their recommendation as to what to buy and how many!

Rang Elecsol and got their ansaphone - I was told this would happen and that you have to pretend you want to buy some batteries in order to get them to call back!

I didn't get a reply so set off to Deeside where they are based.

When I got there - they were shut and so we had an evening without electricity.

(Although my start and water pump batteries are seperate systems so we were still able to shower on Wednesday - good move that!)

They rang back on Wednesday morning.

They explained - somewhat abruptly - that the batteries would need "equalizing".

I explained that a drop test had showed faulty cells and the reply was that six batteries don't just die - particularly not all at once.

I would have to send them my proof of purchase, the guarantee cards and then they would send someone to check out my boat electrics and then collect the batteries - if my boat checks out OK!

They would then test the batteries and replace them if faulty.

 

Great!

So that's Christmas, New Year and most of January without power then!

 

I have bought new batteries (NOT Elecsol) from Harry's and all is well onboard.

An expert on Consumer Law tells me that my claim is with Limekiln as my supplier and not Elecsol - who are Limekiln's supplier.

So I feel the new year starting with a legal battle!

Had they been £40 batteries (like my new ones) I would write it off - but at £8 short of £500 for the set of Elecsols, I am taking this all the way!

Will keep you posted.

[John Orentas]

Hi Martin.

 

Doesn't exactly give you a warm feeling when people start making excuses before they have even begun to investigate. The chap in the beard should not have said that about invertors, how do the batteries know what they are driving, the comment probably says more about his expertise that anything else.

 

A four year warranty does not sound exessive for a high quality battery, the one in my 'N' reg. car is the original from new.

 

Anyway, keep plugging away. You may have to find an independant expert at some stage so dont let anyone dispose of the batt's before things have been resolved.

 

P.S. As you may well be involved in litigation of some kind.

 

Keep contemporary documentation of everything, confirm all phone calls in writing or better by FAX

Edited December 23, 2004 by John Orentas

[Alastair]

Hard luck, martin. hope you get somewhere.

 

Stories like these have put me off investing in top-quality batteries, I buy cheap 'leisure' batteries from automotive shops. Not had problems so far.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Martin

How long have you had the batteries?

I think i read someware that the first two years are unconditional exchange then it is pro-rata for the rest.

but they are a reputable C/o and you should not have a problem.

[Bernie]

This doesn't help you Martin, but when we got our boat from new Elecsol batteries were fitted, they lasted just under 4 years. Afraid I wouldn't touch them again with a bargepole. Other makes of batteries in other boats have lasted longer and not always the most expensive ones.

[Martin]

Richard - I bought them on 31st August 2002 so they are just over two years old!

Reputable company my arse!

[Richard Bustens]

Give them a chance Martin they may come through yet

Then again they may not, then you can say told you so.

Wont add the lol, coz it's not funny, to you at anyrate

[Martin]

If it weren't for the 500 quid it might be!

Had I asked around on the forum before buying them, I might have bought differently, but there you go.

Given that Elecsol do replace them - does anyone want to make me an offer?

I will have six batteries that I won't have a home for!

M

[Richard Bustens]

This is worth a read if you have an hour to spair

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

 

i think that AGM batteries can be charged @80%

Edited December 23, 2004 by Richard Bustens