Beta Engine

[James York]

Hi,

 

Ive been looking at Beta Marine engines for my boat which is at the planning stage. Its says that it has a 7KVA 230V output on it. How does this work because surely you have an alternator which charges the batts at 12V then an inverter to step up to 230v at whatever power rating you desire. Well how does this engines output work? I can't think of a reason for it. I only want the engine because it is meant to be very quiet

 

Thanks in advance!

[John Orentas]

James.

 

Then you are going to be paying a lot of money for a lot of technology you don't need. I would start looking again.

 

John Squeers

[James York]

So am i right in thinking i need an alternator on the engine to charge the batts. The batts are then connected to and inverter which steps the voltage up to 230?

 

If i wished to place a generator into the system how would it work?

[Rick]

Beta can fit three alternators. Two as standard giving 12 volts one for the engine battery and a bigger one for the domestic batteries and an optional third which gives the 230 volts.

 

We opted for the three which if you listen to informed opinion is a waste of money but all the boaters I have spoken to put them on a par with sliced bread.

 

Richard

[James York]

what i hope to do is to have a non gas boat ie run everything off electrcity. So to acheive this what are my options? im thinking 5 batts, a standard engine with 60A alternator, a 15KVA generator. Would this be surfice to cook with electricity without the need to run the main boat engine?

[Big COL]

James

 

This is horses for courses. It depends on how you intend to use your boat. I have in my 70' trad the Beta 43hp with three alternators, one 45 amp/h that charges the start battery, one 95 amp/h that charges the domestic batteries, and one 3.5kw x 230volts Electrolux travel power for mains electricity.

We intend to retire to this boat and in doing so designed it to be able to cope with the power demands that maintaining all the creature comforts will put upon it.

I've had my share of roughing it, an easy life in comfort (some chance) is what I will be looking for as I cruise the system (and no, that doesn't mean bridge hopping). It may well be in France, at the rate this country is going to the dogs. So decide what you want to do with your boat and design it accordingly.

[James York]

Does the 3.5KW charge any batts if so do you need to run the engine to get 230V

[Big COL]

James

 

The way I have it configured it can do as it supplies a victron multi inverter, with the engine running the inverter sees that there is a mains voltage present, and switches over to the charger. This then combines with the 90amp alternator output, to give me a total of 160amps charging availability, which is controllable as this to much for my present battery banks

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Col

No it does not, you can not charge from a charger and alt at the same time if the alt sees there is input from the charger it shuts down .

You can not charge from both sides at once .

[Big COL]

Richard

 

I can assure you it does. it was a problem to begin with as 160amps is to much for my present battery banks. To overcome this the remote panel with the victron has a shore power limiter. As you reduce this so down comes the charging rate. I set this by watching the charging amperage on the battery management meter which reduces as I reduce the shore power limiter, which when set at 2amps brings the combined amperage down to 100amps. very clever these inverters.

I should add it also has a Beta alternator controller fitted.

Edited December 7, 2004 by Big COL

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Col

I dont know what you are saying but you can not charge from both sides it wont do it and even if it would you will cause damage.

when you switch on the charger the battery voltage will go up to 14 odd volts and the regulator in the alt will pick this up and shut off, if you fool the alt to think this has not happened it will put the voltage up to 14/15 volts and the charger will pick this up and shut down if you have fooled it not to reconise this they will keep on going till something blows up.

I thought the same as you and Victron told me it was not possable to do this.

[Big COL]

Richard

 

Open invitation to see a working demonstration.

Who did you talk to at victron? Talk to Danny at Victron UK at rugby.

[Gary Peacock]

Hi

 

Trying to charge from both the alternator and inverter charger at the same time in my experience cause peculiar results. The intelligent charger can't work out why the battery is not behaving in the manner it expects and usually drops back to a very low charge rate.

 

Victron (or certain Representatives of) did used to claim it was possible but I could never think of a way it could possibly work so I now recommend not to do it.

 

I haven't tried Col's solution but I will give it a go and see what happens.

 

Gary

[Richard Bustens]

Well Danny said could not to do it

i can not see how it can work when you think about it, cos the units think that the battery is fully charged if they are both on.

The charger is putting out 14+v so the alt registers this and shuts down if the alt is charging the charger picks up 14+ volts and does the same and will go into float.

What we need is John O or perhaps Maffi for a definitive answer.

[maffi mushkila]

What we need is John O or perhaps Maffi for a definitive answer.

 

Sorry guys we have four big gens supplying 4 Transformer rectifier units supplying a busbar to which the bat is connected. It charges or it dont. If it dont change the diode in the circuit

 

I musy say I like the idea of 230 vac off the engine I can do my washing while I cruise

Edited December 7, 2004 by maffi mushkila

[Alastair]

I've guessing here, but I can see it working like this:

Controller 'hides' voltage at battery terminals from both systems.

 

Controller limits the current coming through, and controls the voltage to be a sensible limit - 14.4 I bet.

 

So the controller knows the voltage at the battery, and limits the total current so it doesn't boil the batteries.

 

So it's doing the same job as an 'intelligent' controller with the additional job of controlling 2 current sources.

[John Orentas]

Certainly not a definitive answer and the rule is never say never.

 

Charging batteries from 2 sources at the same time is as close to a disaster waiting to happen as you can get. even if someone says it may be sort of possible.

 

Running any types of elecronic equipment in parallel in this way problematical to say the least, even two compatible bits of kit that are designed to do it. Outputs feeding back feeding to inputs and vice versa. Nasty.

 

We are a bit casual these days about such things, but the concept of running high currents through solid state devices is quite new, a colegue of mine who desingned such things would say that you were permanently a millisecond from disaster.

 

I used to hear tales about my predecessor when I worked with searchlighs, he fancied himself a bit of a whiz-kid at designing D/C power supplies for driving very big discharge lamps. We had a development workshop within the factory which was little more than a partitioned off area.

 

He would dissappear into it for weeks on end, then everyone would hear a loud bang immediately followed by a mushroom shaped pall of smoke rising out of his little domain. He would emerge coughing at spluttering, enthusiasm dampened for a while.

 

After all that I would say don't be to casual or to clever with the use of this kind of equipment, keep it simple.

 

John Squeers

Edited December 7, 2004 by John Orentas

[Big COL]

Richard

 

Danny did the installation, and he was the one who told me how to control it.

Offers still open to see a demo.

 

Maffi

 

Thats the very reason we had the power pack. Its running a washer dryer while cruising and works very well.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Big C

Where abouts are you?

[Martin]

A diode in each of the charging circuits - charger and alternator - is supposed to "hide" the input of the "other" device.

At least that is how Adverc suggested doing it.

Their alternator controller can regulate two alternators and I have the wiring diagram to show this charging a single battery bank.

I assume the same setup works here.

[maffi mushkila]

Maffi

Thats the very reason we had the power pack. Its running a washer dryer while cruising and works very well.

 

Then I want one

[Big COL]

Hi Big C

Where abouts are you?

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The boat is in Kingfisher Marina, 4 miles south of Stoke Bruerne.