Sabey boats

[ChimneyChain]

My Nan was born on the Sabey horse boat Empress in 1913. I have some history on my nan and her family working for Sabeys, however I have been unable to find out where the boats Empress and the Sabey tug Fastnet were built. My nans Dad was the steerer of the tug Fastnet. Can anybody help me with this? Darren

[pete harrison]

My Nan was born on the Sabey horse boat Empress in 1913. I have some history on my nan and her family working for Sabeys, however I have been unable to find out where the boats Empress and the Sabey tug Fastnet were built. My nans Dad was the steerer of the tug Fastnet. Can anybody help me with this? Darren

 

I have the health registration details for Sabey's EMPRESS as Paddington 212 (03/01/1911), its master at that time being Addison Cross Kenny. EMPRESS was a single cabin wide boat operating between Paddington and Leighton Buzzard carrying sand, bricks, gravel and clay. I think EMPRESS started off its life being owned by John Sands Reed, West Drayton (Paddington 178 - 01/10/1895) before passing to Sabey in 1911. After a couple more changes of owner EMPRESS was then taken over by the government in February 1917 then passed to the Grand Junction Canal Company in July 1920 when it had its cabin removed and health registration cancelled. A photograph of EMPRESS is published in WATERWAYS, IMAGES FROM AN INDUSTRIAL AGE by Nick Billingham pages 62 and 63.

 

Sabey's steam tug FASTNET was health registered as Paddington 304 (02/10/1923) with Sylvester Wood listed as its first master. FASTNET was later motorised and re-health registered as Brentford 484 (28/11/1932), the master listed as Henry Bland. FASTNET was subsequently broken up in 1949.

 

I hope these details are sufficient to get you started.

[ChimneyChain]

Peter. Many thanks for coming back to me so quickly, I really appreciate it. It is my Great Grandparents, Henry and Elizabeth Bland sat on Empress in the photograph you spoke of. I understand this was taken in no.7 Iron Gate Wharf in Paddington in 1913. The people on Orient are Freddie and Leah Dyer (Ronnie Woods family); they were good friends of my Grandparents. Looking at the photograph and from discussions I had with my nan, I'm almost sure that Empress was a narrow beam boat. I have a couple of lovely photographs of Fastnet with Henry steering; as you say, it was sadly broken up at Walkers in Ricky in 1949. Many thanks for your interest. Darren

[jeannette smith harrison]

Hello Darren

Te woods are connected to my family via Harriett Harrison married Benjamin Wood his occupation is listed as Boatman & Lockeeper, Harriett was my gg Grandads sister so Ronnie Wood shares the same ggg Grandparents as myself.His parents Arther & Elizabeth settled on retirment near to my grandparents,even on leaving the cut the boatmen settled in groups

near to each other.I remember Arther as he used to go fishing a lot up near Cowley & he knew my Grandad well,Ronnie pushed me& my Dolly in the cut when i was around 10 years old & iv never forgiven or spoke to him since.Im almost sure my records are right in the fact that Arther & Elizabeth where born on canal boats Orient & Antelope.connecting to the Woods i have records for Sarah alice Bland buried jan 30 1928 aged 57. James Bland buried march 13 1909 age 79.Mary Ann Bland buried may 18 1910 age 71.All buried at Braunston. Sarah should be buried in the Boatmans cemetery across the road from the Church,the others strong poss they where buried in the church grounds but no records apart from Parish records where made or kept when they razered all but a few graves around 50 years ago,like my g Granparents it is impossable to locate exact spot.

Jeannette

[ChimneyChain]

Hello Jeannette, thanks for your post. Ive read lots of your posts over the last year or so and I've found you have such an interesting family history. I'm not sure if you've read Ronnie Woods auto biography ISBN 9781 4050 381 71? The first two chapters are about life on the boats and growing up in the Yiewsley area. I met Ronnie once whilst visiting Freddie Dyer but I was too star struck to stay! Thanks, Darren

[jeannette smith harrison]

Sorry to say iv not read anything to do with Ronnie Wood or followed his progress in any way,he tried to snatch my fav dolly from me & because i would not let go & kicked him he pushed me in. I was fished out but not my poor old dolly she is prob still to this day @ the bottom of the cut,My uncle Toms boys mixed with him & made lots of racket with their guitars,but i never liked him after that day. childhood memory never forgotten. One a lighter note i also have some records of the Bland family connected to Long Buckby if you are interested p.m. me with your e/mail

Jeannette

[MarkyP]

Hi Darren, whilst I don't know who built either boat, some bits and bobs which (if you're not already aware) may be of interest / support Pete's post...

 

Regards FASTNET: A collation of info on the tug including pic as a motor tug can be found in Richard Thomas's Steamers Historical website http://tinyurl.com/6fvy9wb

 

A brief view of FASTNET (+ other Sabey boats) can be seen within the British Waterways Archive dvd produced in limited numbers by Laurence Hogg Productions. If you're interested in the general London Canal region in the early 20th century, then I would say its a must-buy. See: http://tinyurl.com/69c6d4n

 

A record of the docking and breaking up of FASTNET in April/May 1949 can be found within "Walkers of Ricky" book by Anthony Walker

 

A brief history of H.Sabey can be found within the book "From Dawn 'Til Dust" by Tony O'Connor: http://tinyurl.com/62gffns

 

Further bits of info regards Sabey's can be found within the CanalScape London Group site: http://tinyurl.com/ylpxjsm

 

Regards the name "Bland", I have the following notes:

 

(Motor) Tug ENTERPRISE, Health Registered to H. Sabey as Paddington 265 in June 1918 has Harry Bland as Master. Interestingly in answer to the question of Flyboat Y/N was written "No, is doing the return journey between Paddington and West Drayton in one day".

 

Wideboat BERESFORD, Health Registered to Wm.Boyer & Son as Paddington 231 in November 1913 has Henry Bland as Master

 

Wideboat MARLBOROUGH, Health Registered to Wm.Boyer & Son as Paddington 233 in November 1913 has Harry Bland as Master

 

Wideboat SPARTAN, Health Registered to H.Sabey & Co. as Brentford 330 has "Bland" as Master

 

Hope this is of use.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[pete harrison]

Peter.

 

Looking at the photograph and from discussions I had with my nan, I'm almost sure that Empress was a narrow beam boat.

 

Darren

 

Amongst my notes I have a transcript of the Grand Junction Canal gauge table for EMPRESS and I can confirm its general dimensions as 71'4'' x 9'9'', with a theoretical carrying capacity of 51 tons @ 49.54'' (about 1'' dry side / freeboard).

[ChimneyChain]

Thanks for all the interesting information regarding these boats. Really appreciated.

Cheers Darren

[MarkyP]

Subsequent to my last post, I see that a Harry Blant is identified in image 139 in Historic Waterway Scenes - London & South East, by Martyn Denney (this image being of H.Sabey's Fastnet). As I mention Harry Bland as Master, there may have been a mis-read name noted at somepoint.

For info, Mark

[ChimneyChain]

Hi Mark, that's my great granddad on the Fastnet and also sitting on the back of the empress. My nans in the cabin of empress as she was only 2 at the time. And they have mis- spelt the name, it's Bland. Cheers Mark

 

Darren

[MarkyP]

Resurrecting an old thread for tidiness, and continuing a subject touched upon from time to time.... has there been any "new" information or conclusions drawn regards cabin side colours for Sabey boats? EPT's book Colours of the Cut shows a Red & Blue/Grey with white cabin, early colour photos of Sabey trucks show a 60's BWB shade Blue/Yellow colour scheme, but I think Darren (Chimney Chain), shared a memory with me of a family member saying Blue/White cabinsides... Best guess?

[ChimneyChain]

Hi mark nice to hear from you. From what my nan used to tell me her dads tug The Fastnet used to be royal blue with white lettering and the wide boats used to be green paneling with red recessed panals and white lettering. She was in her 80s though when she sat me down with a glass of brandy to tell me. You just need to dig up the old arm as they are all buried down there.

 

Darren

[MarkyP]

Haha - yes forgotten about the plan to get down the old arm.... Good to hear from you too - many thanks for this information. Looking at an early pic of Fastnet and what looks like a two colour cabin side, I wonder if the Green/Red/White livery was once used on the tugs also?... Will have to have another look at the other pics...

 

[Stoddy66]

Hi Mark, that's my great granddad on the Fastnet and also sitting on the back of the empress. My nans in the cabin of empress as she was only 2 at the time. And they have mis- spelt the name, it's Bland. Cheers Mark

 

Darren

Hi Mark, that's my great granddad on the Fastnet and also sitting on the back of the empress. My nans in the cabin of empress as she was only 2 at the time. And they have mis- spelt the name, it's Bland. Cheers Mark

 

Darren

Hi Darren I came upon your information by chance doing some family research as I came across a picture of the Empress with Elizabeth Bland nee Garner Harry Bland and I believe my Great Grandad Thomas Garner ......I have always known of the boatman connection but my Great Grandad left the canals and ran his own Coal Business from behind/under St Pancras. I would really like to know if you have any more information on the Blands, Garners or Cheshires. I have been able to trace the Garners back to Stratford upon Avon but any gaps or guidance would be really appreciated Thanks Ian

[ChimneyChain]

Hi Ian, my mum has been writing out the family tree and she has managed to get back to the early 1800 on the Blands and Garners, and all of them being boatman/Women. Send me your email or pm me it and I will send a copy over to you and answer any other questions you would like to know. ( I think you have to make 5 posts before you can pm me )

 

All the best

Darren

[Wigggle]

Hi all, I wonder if you can help me please. I too have been researching my family tree and have at least 3 generations of MATTHEWS that worked as boatmen on the Grand Union Canal. My Grandfather RICHARD MATTHEWS (b1885) worked for Sabeys and also his Father GEORGE MATTHEWS (b1848). The 1901 census shows them living on boats AUGUST and JOSEPH respectively.

 

Are you able to provide any further information or point me in the right direction? Many thanks.

[pete harrison]

Hi all, I wonder if you can help me please. I too have been researching my family tree and have at least 3 generations of MATTHEWS that worked as boatmen on the Grand Union Canal. My Grandfather RICHARD MATTHEWS (b1885) worked for Sabeys and also his Father GEORGE MATTHEWS (b1848). The 1901 census shows them living on boats AUGUST and JOSEPH respectively.

 

Are you able to provide any further information or point me in the right direction? Many thanks.

I have a few references to Richard Matthews and George Matthews working on boats in the south east.

 

02/10/1879 - Paddington 45 = LIVE & LET LIVE owned by Charles Ensby, Paddington = wide boat = master given as Geo Matthews.

31/08/1885 - Paddington 15 = ELIZA owned by Alfred L. Maynard, Dawley = narrow boat = master given as Geo Matthews.

22/10/1907 = Berkhampstead 193 = ERNEST owned by Joseph Arnold, Camden = wide boat = master given as G.H. Matthews.

01/10/1912 = Port of London 458 = MARY ANN owned by John James Prior, Limehouse = wide boat = master given as G. Matthews.

 

30/10/1923 = Paddington 305 = CHARLBERT owned by H. Sabey & Co. Ltd., Paddington = wide boat = master given as Richard Matthews.

28/06/1927 = Paddington 320 = DRAKE owned by H. Sabey & Co. Ltd., Paddington = wide boat = master given as Richard Geo Matthews.

 

I also have (which may be relevant):-

 

02/10/1879 = Paddington 41 = WANDER owned by Charles Ensby, Paddington = wide boat = master given as John Matthews.

02/10/1879 = Paddington 44 = SURPRISE owned by Charles Ensby, Paddington = wide boat = master given as John Matthews.

[ChimneyChain]

Where did the Matthews family settle after coming of the boats??

 

Darren

[Wigggle]

Thanks Pete for the prompt response............... Where is the source of your information? Is there a book that I could buy that covers the canal history in this area?

 

I believe that JOHN HENRY MATTHEWS b1843 was the older brother of GEORGE MATTHEWS and also a boatman. They were born in Banbury and may have also worked the Oxford Canal. Another brother WILLIAM MATTHEWS b1834 was also a boatman. I believe their Father was JOHN BUTCHER MATTHEWS b1805 in Tingewick, Bucks and also a boatman - do you have any information for WILLIAM, JOHN BUTCHER, or their Father BENJAMIN MATTHEWS b1776? in Tingewick.

 

Darren, in the 1881 census they were living at Canalside, Ubxridge Moor. My Grandfather Richard Matthews settled in Horton Road, Yiewsley, Middlesex in a Church Army house (since demolished) - the Grand Union Canal was at the bottom of his garden. Prior to this my late Mother and her siblings lived on the barges and I believe there was a "school boat". Some of them were born in Paddington, a route they worked taking bricks into London and bringing rubbish out to Sabey's dump in Yiewsley.

[ChimneyChain]

The only Matthews my dad knows off from Horton rd is a Sammy Matthews. Related or not.

 

Darren

[jeannette smith harrison]

William Matthews born 1834 shows in the 1861 Census (Surname mis spelt as Mathews)

@ Yeading on vessel Tiger with a load of Ash & Bricks

class rg9 piece 770 folio 115 gsu roll 542698

[jeannette smith harrison]

1911 Census =

Jack Harry Matthews born abt 1876 @ Paddington north on vessel 'Deer' @Coles & Shadbolt Wharf 427 Harrow road

along with wife & 5 children.

class rg14 piece 8

[Wigggle]

Thanks Jeannette, I have the census info in my family tree, but not the boat details. The father of Jack was John Henry Matthews (b1843) and he was also a boatman. I am trying to find more information about two others namely John Butcher Matthews (b1805) and his father Benjamin Matthews - John was born in Tingewick, Bucks, I have no info at all on Benjamin.

[jeannette smith harrison]

Wiggle

At the moment I can find no records in my collection to indicate that John Matthews Born 1805 was a Boatman

that's not to say he was not as his Wife Hanna was from the Margetts line of canal boatmen.

1871 his son John Henry (Spelt Mathews again) is listed as a boatman & a Lodger with his wife & her child Jane Neal & a child between them Margaret. note they are lodgers with a Fredrick Betcher is this another spelling error as late changed to Butcher !!!??

(Coal Porter )@ 5 Cherry Tree Cottage Culvert Lane . Hillingdon.

rg10 piece1308 folio29