luctor et emergo

For some reason I can now not get the image of a rogue, unlicensed boat, speeding at 4mph down the canal, hotly persued by a BW boat, at 4mph, complete with twos and blues....

Thank you for joining our little soiree halfway through.... I worked out how the rules work, they are really pretty simple. The only confusion, no let me call that ambiguity, comes forth from BW's way of enforcment (or not) of the rules. This has given rise to the abuse of the CC rules, which causes so much trouble. As usual, the solution would be pretty simple, but is prevented by a lack of effort by BW, and a 'closed shop' mentatilty of the community, which opposes any change of the status quo (I know that this is a generalisation, but it seems to be part of the problem). Maybe I'll just get mooring poles, and raise the Jolly Roger...

Because you are not supposed to moor in just a small(ish) area, but to genuinely cruise the system.

I could, but I would be breaking the rules.

You either have a CC licence, and travel around the whole of the network, and don't need to remain in an area for work, or You must have a Residential Mooring, or You must have a Leisure Mooring, and don't live on your booat (unless you also have a land based dwelling/address, which is classed as your home) From what I understand, these are the only three options available at the moment. There is no provision for people who want to live on the boat, without a permanent mooring (because they don't need one), and away from the visitor moorings which are so clogged. At this moment BW seem to condone the habit of bridgehopping, for lack of an ability, or will, to properly enforce the CC rule. For starters, they'd have to chase the non-compliant CC boats to get hold of them, then they would have to tow them to a suitable place to remove them, and then they have to dispose of them.... Not a big problem for a few boats I imagine, but if the problem is as widespread as it is perceived, that would seem a very tall order.

Thanks for your replies all, looks like it might be a possibility, I'll have a look into the practicalities (regulations, equipment etc) and see if it could be realised.

Bath and Bristol maybe, yes. But East of Devizes has plenty of empty space. There are a few bridges that seem busy, but other than that it's unspoilt.. But perhaps that's because it IS in the sticks? Not fashionable, no ready access to nightlife and no Waitrose...

I know, I know.... but you can't get a Resi mooring (nor do I really need one), and using a Leisure Mooring doesn't technically allow you to live on the boat, unless you also have a home on the shore...

That's the sort of thing, but why do people oppose it? I understand that the Bridgehoppers are pretty much disliked (largely due to their avoidance of paying fees etc), but I'm sure that a number of them would buy a Roving Mooring Permit if it was available. Or do some people just not want to see any more boats on the canal? I've seen that attitude elsewhere in live (if you haven't done this for 50+ years you're not worthy.. etc etc...) Thank you, I will.

That is the problem, the rules require you to travel on the whole network (or at least a substantial part of it), not just a small part of it. If you travel up and down just a small part, you are breaking the rules (technicaly). I need to stay in one area for work. A fairly large area, because I will be traveling on a bike, but still, I will be restricted to the K&A between Bradford on Avon and Hugerford.

It seams to me, that BW are missing a massive income opprtunity, which would at the same time make licencing much simpler. It would remove the 'need' for genuine 'liveaboarders' who can't have a 'Residential Mooring' to try and circumnavigate the rules in one way or other. It would also distinquish between the genuine 'liveaboard' who doesn't want to, or can't travel the WHOLE system, whilst still moving substantialy along a smaller section, and the 'bridgehoppers'. If you want to live on your boat, you must have a Resi Mooring. Fine, but why do you need a permanent berth, if you wish to travel around? For me, I want to live in the sticks, not in a Marina. I also want to move around, to make the most of the different view that you can have. That is what is all about, right? Why don't BW create a Resident Licence that does not require a permanent Mooring? I don't really see the point in either living permanently in a Marina, or indeed blocking those spaces that could be filled with recreational moorings. And yes, I would expect to pay a fair price for such a licence, but without the need to secure a permanent mooring.

Interesting idea. Did anything come out of the Housing plan?

Will there be a "Snitch Parade", say on the GU? I'll get my coat...

That's what I mean, if there are enough boats who can not/ want not use the pump out facilities, there would be a market for this. I would be pretty much available anytime, within reason. Additional income could come from selling other goods, possibly. But there may be restrictions (no, lets make that there WILL be restrictions.. ) such as efluent and foodstuffs in a confined space etc.. carrying fuel, other than coal, would also need extensive complience and specialist equipment (I imagine) .

I would have to see what relevant skills I have for this kind of departure.. I can splice ropes, but I doubt I'll make a living out of that.. I'm handy with spanners (used to maintain etc my bikes) , but have no actual hands on experience with marine diesels (yet..), other than the usual things like oil and filter changes etc.. although a manual would go a long way. I'm not a bad painter (I paint scale models and figures) but again no relevant experience painting boats. Thanks for your info on Andy's business Paul.

Another one which I would like some feedback on from those at the shap end... According to http://www.lock13.co.uk/boats/coaldiesel.htm there is one boat selling diesel on the K&A. I read in another post that there might well be interest in a boat offering pump out facilities. Is this the case? I have obviously no intention to try and step on Andy's toes (if indeed he is trading) but if there would be a business opportunitie (making a living whilst living so to speak.. ) I would like to investigate it. Truck driving is great, but after 20+ years I have been thinking about a chance. Would there be a market for say a Pump Out service on the K&A. ( I work on a tanker truck at the moment, so I'm used to working with pump gearetc, and I'm used to being surrounded by effluent, albeit from the bovine variety... ). What about casettes? Short off contacting the current trader (I'm only looking at possibles at the moment) and encrouching on his business, would there be call for more/different service? The list only list that Andy sells diesel, how about coal? toilet pape? matches, you know the thing. Those little essentials that you run out off in the middel of nowhere... I realise that there would be rules and regulations to be considered, but before I delve into that, I would like to know if it is feasible at all. It would also mean changing the type (and size) of boat I would need to look for. Or could such a thing be done with a butty? Thanks for your responses, they are much appreciated and a great help.

That is some boat you have... sorry, I find open goals hard to resist... Sat navs are not accurate for speed measuring, because there is a delay between the position locating, and actual calculation of speed. it takes a certain distance traveled for the sat nav to be able to calculate your average speed over that distance. What it actually displays, is the speed you have been doing a short while ago.. accuracy and delay timing vary wildly between systems. The only accurate means of measuring your road speed is through a calibrated speedo (like the tachograph in a truck), or with a calibrated radar gun. Even the Radar gun can only be used as evidence if the speed measured was consitant over a certain distance, i.e. if you brake sharp (or even accelerate, if you feel brave enough...) the radar can not get a true reading. And 79 'real' mph is 9mph over the limit, and you will be done for that by a camera. Actual police patrol depends on how busy they are, and the flow of the traffic. And yes, if I do get on the water, I will be a very considerate boater. Being able to get away is a very large attraction of living on a boat.

I see, thanks. Still, there are plenty of spots on the K&A to moor, perhaps not 'convinient' for those on holiday, who after all want to do the sightseeing etc, and may not be adapted to live in the sticks, but on the other hand, I would very much be mooring in the sticks. As long as I can get the bike to the road (to get to work), I don't need either people or pubs etc around me. The ability to move the boot is one of the main reasons to go and live on one..

**puts on pedant hat..** no, you are not. Driving at 79mph is breaking the law (speed limit). the allowance is to account for small inaccuracies in your speedo, and the speed measuring device. If you drive at 79mph acCording to your speedo, you may well be driving faster, or slower than that speed. Even the size, and wear, of your tyres will change the speedo reading. **takes of pedant hat ** (edited some annoying spelling mishtakes..)

If I remain within the letter of the rule, where is that considered 'getting away with it'? Am I 'getting away with it' every time I pay for my shopping? When I pay for one hour parking, and I park for 59 minutes, am I 'getting away with it'? If anything, if I pay for a Leisure Mooring, by moving my boat around, I DON'T try to get away with it regards living on my mooring, something which I'm sure happens a lot in Marinas, where they may look the other way. As for the assumption that the K&A is full, what are the criteria for 'full'? I have not walked the length of the path, but I do cross a few of the bridges every day, and even around the bridges there seems to be plenty of space. I had a look on Google Earth, and there are only a few areas where there are a lot of boats together, but the empty space by far outweighs the populated. If it is putting an undue strain on the resources, that may be the case, but that is not the fault of the boaters. Yoiu pay licence fee (or tax.. sorry carl ) to BW, who are therefor e obliged to provided certain services. Their inability to do so is not the fault of somebody who wants top live on the canal. On that note, I understand that there is one trader who trades on the K&A (from his boat), so perhaps there would be a possibility for a business here (without stepping on someones toes obviously..) ? I understand that a boat offering a PO facility might be popular? I may consider a change of career... no, really.

Thanks for those who answered my questions whilst I was called away. It is getting a lot clearer. Nou nou, I do intent to buy a boat WITH a shower, so no need for that....

If the wording of my post gives the indication that I'm looking to 'cheat' the system, then that is my mistake, as I do not wish to do so. I am trying to establish how the rules work, and what is possible, within those rules. If abaiding by the rules, even at the edge of them, is considered cheating, then what chance for those wishing to enter into this life? to clarify, yes, if I can get a Resi Morring, I will pay the market rate. Rates within the area that I look at are affordable, and comparable with any reasonable dwelling on land. I would also appreciate the added bonus of having a convinient location to use as my address, to get my post, and maybe even hook up to the mains (perish the thought.. ). Falling that, and considering that I plan to cruise the K&A from roughly the Hungerford area to Bradford on Avon anyway, if it is within the rules, I would read the rules that having a Leisure Mooring means that you can't live at the mooring, but that it would not prohibit cruising the canal in a smaller area. Again, I would obviously abide by local restrictions (14 days, 48 hours etc..), I DON,T want to cheat the system by claiming a (cheap) CC permit, and then bridge hopping in the Pewsey Vale... believe me, trying to stay legal whilst driving a truck is enough of a battle for me.

I have been reading a lot of this forum recently, and somehow, I'm not surprised by your answer... or the typically condesending tone of it. If you would read my questions...

I realise that, the marinas where I enquired have long waiting lists. I'm not neccessarily looking for a Residential Mooring, a Leisure one will be O.K., as long as that means that I can stay in the area, without falling foul of the regs..