Derek R.
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Posts posted by Derek R.
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My father and grandfather were dockers in the Port of London.
My father used to swim off the beach in the Thames in the days when they sat with buckets and spades in the shadow of the Tower of London.
Those were the days - cholera, typhoid, TB
The volume of sand was put down near the Tower by the L.C.C. (I believe) for the sole purpose of creating a beach for Londoners post War. It was very popular, but needless to say - tides and shipping washed it away eventually. Perhaps no bad thing considering the amount of filth in the river then. Gran would say: "Eat a Peck of dirt through your life, and you'll live to grow old". Then I'd get a clout for not washing my hands before eating!
Magical places; From a busy city centre through that 'wardrobe door'; the Aylesbury arm between the Osiers when they are thickest, and barely a couple of feet of visible channel; any bit of canal with a view of hills, no-one in sight, and sliding along through glass still water; mist and frost, with chimney smoke vertical.
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Install the ubuntu-restricted-extras package, that will get you (amongst other useful things), the microsoft web-fonts, which is what the forum HTML works best with.
Cheers,
Simon.
I'm having the same trouble Alan had. Can't find this restricted extras package, and seem to have no control over font style. I can make it bigger, but that's not the requirement.
Any more clues chaps?
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What Liam says is correct, but it is possible to get Ubuntu in the form of Windows program, which installs without disturbing the existing system. I've used this, and it works well. Go to clicky to download,
MP.
Been there again, and successfully installed Ubuntu. It's quite partitioned off from XP, and files need to be saved and copied for safety. Looks promising, I like the Elephant wallpaper.
Many thanks.
Edit: Yes, dual boot - I get an option with a ten second window at start-up, one or the other.
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What Liam says is correct, but it is possible to get Ubuntu in the form of Windows program, which installs without disturbing the existing system. I've used this, and it works well. Go to clicky to download,
MP.
Thanks guys, I wondered as much. I'll take a look, but as what I'm set up with ain't broke etc., and as I'm working with someone elses hand me down, it might get more complicated than I've got details to deal with. Back cabin carpentry calls . . . ('that' I can handle).
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Install the ubuntu-restricted-extras package, that will get you (amongst other useful things), the microsoft web-fonts, which is what the forum HTML works best with.
Cheers,
Simon.
Hmm. Perhaps you can throw some light my way.
I've XP home with Firefox as my browser, and downloaded ubuntu to desktop. Initially trying to open the file, windows says "can't open, don't know what wrote it". Figuring I should be able to open it somehow, I selected Firefox to open it. But as FF was in block mode, so I unblocked, and it was opened (sounds biblical). But what then? If I right click on the ubuntu desktop icon and 'open with FF' I get a blank FF browser screen from which I can select all my usual stuff. Yet if I look in control panel for ubuntu - nothing. Is it installed, or not installed? I did get some options of add-ons as advert blocking programs which seem to work, but suspect that's FF not ubuntu.
Clueless me.
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(snip)
I wonder why the 1950s film chose to focus on such a lightly loaded pair, (half way to being empty, at least). It looks a bit odd as a result
I can only imagine it gave BW a chance to show their handling facilities at their best, crane and an easily shifted stack of ingots would look better than half a dozen planks on the shoulders of each of six men taking all day etc. Also a heavy loaded pair may have been embarrassed by some old cooker in a bridge'ole (no names mentioned - ahem), and there wouldn't have been any coal out of Brentford! 35ton on a pair of big boats - half a load.
I wonder how many ex-boatmen got to see that film, and the other films come to that. I'm sure most who saw it did so through a supporting film to a main feature and may not have known one end of a boat from the other, particularly viewed from the back seats of a Cinema with something warmer to hand - never mind continuitee - phwoah!
Edit: Just thinking, it got to show the widened N. GU locks to boot - forward thinking company moving away from old fashioned narrow locks. Propaganda. PR.
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This COBOL talk reminds me of when I came off the road and went into the 'office' for Pony Express. I got sent on a programming course. I spent a fortnight in Leeds learning RPGII (to get driver/rider accounts off paper bookwork). Then evening classes at Hatfield Uni learning programming in binary code, where at the end of one month we had learned how to get the computer to switch on and off. I thought - 'what's the on off switch for?' Then someone introduced something called X3 (whatever that is/was), and everything that took hours with RPGII, filling out sheets of paper to be read on card readers, was done in one line of text on a keyboard. That's when I went back on the road.
The binary experience was enough to know - walk away . . .
Must look at Ubuntu again.
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Well, Umea doesn't look a lot different from when I remember it at Cowley (not brilliant), but Dane - that's a shock.
Did anyone spot Dane being used as a trip boat in one of the 60's videos in the Beulah thread?
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I'd love to know more of the Grand Union film from the 1930s.
Despite the old captioning at the beginning, it clearly does not relate to 1934, as most of the identifiable boats featured were not delvered until about three years later, and hardly look brand new in the pictures.
Also I don't think many of the broad locks on the Birmingham line were open until at least late 1934, and again what's shown doesn't look brand new. (I'm happy to be corrected, if there were widely different opening days for the different locks though...).
Does anybody know the true origin, or date of this film.
I was fascinated to see boatwomen winding the then new paddlegear on the Birmingham line. Despite windlasses of a greater throw than todays long throw ones, they actually struggle, quite a lot. So it wasn't all about technique, was it ? You do need to be pretty strong as well, don't you ?
Alan
I have this film on VHS along with 'Inland Waterways' and 'There go the Boats'. I have the date written down as 1937, but I cannot recall where that originated. Looking at the Northern GU lock gear, it can be seen the mortar and brickwork is all very new. The young ladies may well have been on their first trip using these locks, and if they were that new, they may also have been stiff. Though it could be said some still are!
Note also the arrangement for seemingly locking the spindle. No jaw on a chain, but some kind of pawl on a pivot above the spindle. Freeze a frame or three and you can see some detail, though not all. It looks like the chap on the far side helps set it in place.
The inspection launch Kingfisher was used extensively in this filming. Look for it traversing the N. Circ. aqueduct and tied up outside Bulls Bridge workshops.
If you do get a DVD or VHS of any of these films, there is more to be identified due to improved quality, these Google vids are very pixelated.
Edit: 28 seconds in is seen what looks like a memorial between trees. It's the top of the headquarters of the P.L.A. in Trinity Sq. 274ft to the top!
PS In the 'Inland Waterways' film which depicts the Beresford's trip with ingots, their staged breakdown is dated on the trip card as 20 Feb 1950. I bet the telephone number of Gayton Yard isn't "Blisworth double three" any more!
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Nor me! Broad Waterways is good too. Takes a trip on a 100 ton motor barge up the Trent to Nottingham.
Forecast is rubbish for Sunday on - enjoy.
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Water Babies, Water Miss, wonderful stuff from the fifties and sixties - some promo!
Got everything except Mr Reids vision of commercial traffic which in itself is a gem
Thanks for the links - got some on video, but many not seen before.
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Is this Hadfield? In the infamous Nick Sanders disguise.
Edited to say: There were only 17 cadbury boats.
Difficult to see, but the Reg. Bm No. looks like 76254, I haven't found that anywhere and wonder if it's not the BW No.
Hadfield was Reg. Rk 199. I don't know Nick Sanders - what was he infamous for, or shouldn't I ask?
Edit: Did he have a sweet tooth?
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Umea, Dane and the butty Monnow? (see earlier posts, in this thread)
Well, Umea doesn't look a lot different from when I remember it at Cowley (not brilliant), but Dane - that's a shock.
These shots were taken IIRC on the embankment between Cosgrove and the aqueduct twenty years ago, but what boat? Looks like a big Ricky. But I'm probably wrong.
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Quite right - the only two good bits of Aylesbury now are the railway station and the canal basin.
I don't know about 'off topic', but don't know why the locks are a generous 'narrow'.
The Indian by the High St. bridge was always good, and the chippie a few doors along too. I'd heard the bakers and The Ship have gone - no more fresh bread smells early in the morning. The brewery's a housing estate, and how long before the boats are moved out? Quite a little community when we were there.
Much of the town is grim, but search for St Marys Church behind Kingsbury Sq, and visitors will be rewarded with a glimpse of old buildings and narrow streets. If it's still there, the Museum is good - Castle St. maybe. Mind you, even these memories are sixteen years old!
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I have tried to find the plans from the virtualwaterways link but need a bit of help. What do I enter and in which field?
My be some one can point me in the right direction.
Are the plans on fleabay no 150216561497 @ £34.95 the ones? Has any one used them with success?
Wrinkley
I tried it with no luck.
Have a look here: http://tinyurl.com/3m2sc6 Lawrence Hogg productions 'Plans'
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i do get your drift and i dont want to impose
Waterways World October 1989, and article by Tony Lewery 'Soap'oles, bed'oles, and bugs'. They do a back issue service, but its a bit devious. Stem to Stern sounds like it might be a better buy.
Edit: Abe books have Stem to Stern £25 - http://tinyurl.com/3juypr
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Here's one I thought I'd never see - 'The Flower of Gloster' by E. Temple Thurston. It was from this book Rolt quoted the phrase describing the movement of a horse drawn narrow boat: "It is no motion at all, or it is motion asleep". Not the easiest book to read, but perseverance will reward with a view of English countryside, its villages and occupants painted in vivid clarity. It shows an England far removed from that of today, yet bemoans the same changes that we bemoan today - albeit different ones.
Thurston was out to see the countryside, and when within sniffing distance of a black hearted Birmingham with dead cats and dogs replacing Springs gossamer threads, he abouts face and takes off along the Stratford. Certainly worth reading for the philosophy of 'Eynsham Harry' his hired boatman, and the trip along the Thames and Severn through Sapperton Tunnel.
Where from the book came and how much - I cannot say - present from the missus.
Edit: Should have mentioned - written in 1911, published 1918.
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hi any pictures of historic back cabins or drawings
Were you looking for working drawings, or just pictures for a general location of items. Photographs in back cabins are inclined to be distorted due to the short focal lens length needed to get things in, and a great many cabins have been re-built over the years so 'original' to the boat build might be a bit rare. However, they have quite often been rebuilt sympathetically and often very well in most cases. Museums will furnish first hand examples, and there's a famous postcard of 'Sunny Valley's' film mock up complete with a Belle Portable sans flue pipe squeezed in.
While some might be proud to display, others might see it as you wanting to look in their purse - if you get my drift.
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Do you have fenders?
Do you receive a discount for historic craft?
Do you have an unpowered butty towed by a designated motor that attracts a 50% licence fee discount?
If the suspected 'error' in width dimensions is indeed an error, the following needs most urgent clarification.
"Unpowered boats (other than portable) are licenced as powered boats."
From: 'Business Licences valid from 1 April 2007, Fees and Conditions.'
5) DISCOUNTS
5a) Leisure business and trading craft
1. Prompt payment
10% off providing that payment is made in full with correctly
completed application and enclosures before the start date of the
licence. Not applicable to payments by monthly Direct Debit instalments.
2. Historic boats
10% off, subject to the discretion of the Waterway Service Manager.
The Boat must have been built before 1948, have inland waterway
heritage relevance and be in good condition.
3. Unpowered Butty
50% off if the Boat is unpowered, more than 50 feet long and never
travels separately from its motor boat. The motor boat must be
licensed and licences for motor and butty must be concurrent with the
same start and end date. To claim this discount, you must declare the
name and index number of the motor boat."
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But in the 'August 2008 Licence terms and conditions'
http://tinyurl.com/4he3gj we have:
"1.7. `Powered' means that the boat has some form of mechanical
propulsion. `Unpowered Boats' are boats that are propelled by human,
wind or animal force. A boat that is normally towed by a powered
vessel is defined as powered."
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In the BW pdf 20586 'Long Term Licence fees 1 April 2008 - 31 March 2009'
"Portable unpowered £37.22 (see below)[definition of 'portable']
Prompt payment £33.50
The price for all other unpowered craft is the same as for powered boats."
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The former discounts for historic and unpowered butty are completely omitted in the latest set of documents -
or at least any that are publicly available through websites.
This either means the former discounts remain and are unaffected,
OR
They no longer remain either for historic boats or unpowered butties
towed by a designated motor boat.
As with the width, and fender issues, BW are doing well at fudging the
issues. Incompetent - or devious?
I suspect accountants at the tiller. Edit - and I think I can see who the winner will be . . .
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Program available on line here:
Thanks Bottle, I've got ten more episodes to watch now!!
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Bridgewater Heritage Boat Co
There's a trip boat which runs out of both Worsley and Castlefield on the Bridgewater. Although it's had a load of work done to it over the years, some of which is not very original, you can still make out it's a Josher. It's obviously had a new back cabin which seems rather short and also it looks as though it's had a new counter. It's powered by an AS2 I believe.
What I'm wondering is... what boat is it? There's no name on the cabin side and I keep forgetting to check the Bridgewater license for a name to satisfy my curiosity - if that's the correct one as it could have been renamed.
Does anybody know more about it?
I am sure I have taken dozens of pics of this boat but I can only find one at the moment, which is only a shot of the bows, although there is this one I found via Google also -
Purely by coincidence, I have just watched a TV series on a DVD entitled 'Locks & Quays', a Granada DVD from a set of programs broadcast in 2006. In episode nine the owner operator is David Rigby and his wife Jeanette. It's kitted out as a floating classroom, the owner proudly announcing it's a 100 year old Josher, but doesn't give the original name. The back end has a pronounce kick-up just like a steamer, but he doesn't mention 'steamer' at all. The present name on the cabin side is just 'Castlefield', and trips were taken between Castlefield and Worsley. An educational trip boat, a bit down at heel, but working - still? Unknown. The website on the side of the boat is of citycentrecruises.co.uk, but the pages do not give any more details of this particular boat - might have been a short term charter by them.
The series is presented by Fred Talbot, in an enthusiastic and almost naive way, but very varied and diverse. The concentration is on the North Western waterways; Liverpool to Wigan, The Ribble Link, and the Lancaster, and history is not left out. Alton is also featured along with the owner talking through the coal and diesel service he supplies with the boat.
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Word on the 2.1m limit is; That the IWA representative on the BWAF objected to the limit of 2.1m. He was advised that it was an error, and that 2.2m was intended, thereby incorporating all ex-working narrow boats up to 7'6" in width.
Not withstanding the argument about whether wide boats should pay more or not (which is not what this thread was about) this 'error' now needs to be addressed and corrected. Given Waterways record on moving to such ends, I would ask all who have an interest write as individuals or as part of a group.
I would suggest that not only are concerns directed to BW as members of any particular user group, but as individuals also, as the Review of Consultation on Boat Licence Fees 2007 published on 22 May 2008 <http://tinyurl.com/42cmy8> states (please note the last paragraph):
Page four (final)
"6. Positive lessons learned The fifteen licence fee road shows held in five locations around the country were very well received. Had longer been available, more locations could have been selected. Customers much appreciated the fact the BW's chief executive and marketing director had taken time to spend an hour with them.
These road shows had a clear effect on the outcome of the consultation. Directors understood customers perspective on this issue more clearly. The result is both a reduced increase for 2008/09 and further strategic thinking through British Waterways Advisory Forum.
It became clear that customers had little understanding of BW's overall financial position or plan. Hence the simple handout distributed at each of the road shows. BW will pay more attention to communicating this in future.
It became clear that BW must do more to communicate directly with individual customers, rather than over depend on the waterway user groups to communicate BW's message to their members."
That might sound like a one way communication line - lets make it two way.
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Steilsteven: I think you should check your facts with David Blagrove, also 180 pairs of boats were built by the G.U.C.C.Co during 1935/6 when G.U.C.Co. abandoned their attempt at creating a wide beam route to Birmingham. It had nothing to do with the government or the war.
It must have been a joint effort. We know that the GU embarked upon a grand expansion scheme ahead of its capabilities, but the government agreed to carry the interest on a £500,000 development loan. The opening was in 1934, but still with more work to be carried out for barges to reach Brum. The company also had in mind to widen Watford and Foxton, but the government refused to further co-operate.
The Second World War had a major effect on the GU, as elsewhere. Most would have seen storm clouds on the horizon well before September 1939, and I perceive this would certainly had some effect on new transport developments when thoughts were turning to armaments.
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I think everyone is missing carls point here or just ignoring it, wide beam boat owners are limited to where they can travel ergo they should get some sort of rebate for that, some people with boats longer than 60' cannot visit other areas so maybe they should get a rebate orrr being completely revolutionary now they could carry on as it is and charge everyone the same sort of price using the same calculator as they do now and scrap this poorly thought out and ill advised scheme.
If Alan means Carl's post No.2 - I agree, and I would also agree with Alan's suggestion to scrap the whole bucket of worms. But inwardly, I can see BW's desire to justify an increase in charging for width, with the growing number of wide boats on a waterway that cannot handle them in the numbers that are appearing, however screwed up it is becoming.
canal engineering question
in History & Heritage
Posted
With regard to the latter, that senior manager should have been quietly led from the room and instantly dismissed, or sent off on his new job of cleaning toilets in the local day centre. Unless of course his remark was an opening to describe how and why cills were in place - where they are in place, and explain to the hire boat operators that it was their essential duty to teach safety. Perhaps every hire boater should be handed a photograph of sunken 'cilled' boats and the consequent bill for inconvenience, recovery and repairs. (Perhaps there would be no hire boaters then?) Education is vital.
To Dunoon's original:
Gates have to be closed against something - a cill, so if building a second pair of gates the same height as the bottom pair, there still needs to be a cill built for them to close against. Fair enough - it would be below water level when the lock was empty, but this prompts questions;
What then would be the reason for a 'second' cill outside the top gates - what would it do? The gates cannot close against it - they need to open out that way - it would have to be far enough back to allow the gates to open. It would have to be five feet below mean water level in the higher pound to allow navigation over it - what purpose would this cill fulfill if only as an underwater dam holding back the canal bed above?
In building top gates the same height as bottom, twice the amount of materials may be needed adding considerably to cost.
But here's the crunch = The canal bed immediately above the top gates would of necessity be as deep as that below the bottom gates. This would be a depression in the upper pound that all sediment and rubbish would be attracted and flow into - preventing a full height set of top gates opening at all.
Example: Denham deep drops about 14' from the Harefield pound to the Uxbridge. Add a design depth of 5'6" of canal from water level to bed, and you have a graduated hole to excavate above the lock to accommodate full height gates of near twenty feet. This twenty foot deep hole would need engineering work in the form of strengthening to lock head embankment, in addition to some sort of grade in the canal bed reaching back for some distance. If a second cill were placed upstream of the open gates presenting a canal bed 'dam', the maintenance problems of clearing rubbish from the gate openings above the top gates would be great due to this increased depth. Plus the fact that any second cill would need a set of stop planks grooves above it for maintenance purposes - more stone, brick, mortar, and skill - for something that did nothing constructive in the equation, as opposed to the learning of a simple piece of knowledge and its execution.
Intelligence is cheap, but perhaps not as widespread as it should be.
Derek