Derek R.
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Posts posted by Derek R.
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I spy a Flavel Courier? What are you going to do with it?
Treat it carefully if it's in working order. Best cooker we ever had! If it's still around in mid August (we're off to France tomorrow), I'll ask again.
Derek.
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There was one around 1981 too, give or take a year, I turned up in an old Canadian canoe. Plenty of boats, and a showman's engine parked on the hard at the end. Don't remember the purpose of the event other than to draw more attention to the presence of the cut.
Derek
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I agree, but on Yarwoods drawings (for type "E" GU boats) the beams are called "mast beam" and "stand beam", also there are 3" x3" "oregon pine stretchers" stated "one between each beam 3 off", I cannot recall ever seeing these used in practice.
Needle in a haystack? How many Middle Northwich boats were used as intended - for carrying? With only eight pairs built, four cut down in '42, and the butties used as pump boats, an unlikely spotting. Did others have such a 'stretcher' fitted? I can see the extra rigidity obtained between the stands with their fitting, but wonder how many lit the back cabin range - top planks supplicing for strength, and the extra inconvenience of their presence might well have made them 'useful' in other ways. Only a calculated guess though.
Derek
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Ken Dakin most certainly did work on the BWB Zoo Water Bus service - I worked there with him.
I seem to recall being told that before my time in London (ie pre 1976) there had been a converted butty at Paddington, one end of which was lived in by Tommy Osborne and family, the other end by the Dakins.
He had the grp 'Water Mongoose' when I worked on Jenny Wren for my first season in 1976 (WM's last season). Ken steered 'Water Nymph' (ex-Southern Cross) in 1977 (its last season also). With the arrival of the newly converted Perseus, and later Gardenia, in 1978 he steered Gardenia and then 'Water Buffalo' when the latter returned from an overhaul. It may be that Ken steered Water Buffalo until the end of the service in BWB ownership at the end of the 1983 season, but I'd need time to think about that situation to be sure.
Ken and Dolly(?) lived in the gatehouse at 16 South Wharf Road, Paddington, for much of this period. His son Kenny could be found on Beauchamp Lodge's 'Erica' for some of this time. Son John was on BWB maintenance in West London.
Ken Dakin eventually went to work on the maintenance and later lived in a cottage beside one of the locks of the Hanwell flight. He suffered a stroke and was housebound as I recall. I don't know if he is still alive.
Steve
Small world. From 1963 through '66 I was a Keeper at London Zoo working in the Cotton Terraces - they being the new buildings along the canal side housing Camels, Antelope, Giraffe, Deer and other stuff, then a little later '69 - '70 in the Insect House. Many's the time I watched the Zoo Water buses tearing up and down. I can remember Water Nymph and Buffalo (I think!), and the occasional white hat. Some time before I got the canal bug, pity. Jason would also go by, though we were kept pretty busy so didn't see much of that one. The canal through the Park was an almost secret place back then with trees forming a tunnel, long before the towpath became a bicycle 'motorway'.
I'll stand to be corrected on this, but fleet numbers 4", boat name 4", other letters 4.1/2" & 5.1/2" - I'll bet there are variations on that too! I've seen 'R's and 'E's with variations, though only one style 'looks' right.
Hadley's name has been made the same size as the others here as comparison (or maybe only a quarter inch in it?).
Derek
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I see my sense of humour doesn't work well on the internet.
Richard
Possibly not. Surprised you missed Pratts Bottom then.
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The same as the Paps of Jura?
Wonder why they are called that....
Richard
Paps = a nipple like hill or peak. Jura is Norse for Deer Island. Three Paps on Jura, all round 2,400ft in height. Won't find a wharf up there.
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There wasn't one shade of blue used throughout. Some declare a darker blue, more like Oxford Blue was used, and later a lighter one, though sun fading will contribute to shade changes.
When I enquired after the correct shades for Waterways post Nationalisation, A Mr Jamieson from Gloucester archives gave me Azure Blue BS 104 in the BS 381C range, and Golden Yellow BS 356, which as far as I know is the same as Middle Chrome. Certainly my signwriter used Middle Chrome for the yellow lettering, and I can't tell the difference from the Golden yellow round the counter. I gave the BS numbers to Tekaloid, and that's what's on Tycho. I'm sure Sickle is likewise.
Derek
Edit: One other point, maintenance boats didn't get treated the same as carrying boats when the brush was wielded - Blue was predominant - everywhere! The lettering would be yellow during that period, but sometimes without shading.
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Ooooh – word games!
Seeking clear definitions of words can be rewarding and frustrating – just like the loss of nine tenths of my previous reply courtesy of Windows – Grrrrrr! All gone!
Second attempt:
So many of our words that we use in everyday language have their origins in another language, and in that original language may mean something similar, or - very different. The description of the word 'wharf' as an acronym is quite unsubstantiated, as it has its origins in the Old English hwearf, meaning "bank" or "shore". Any connection to warehouse river front, or even rail front is a modern habit of seeking acronyms from words, though 'POSH' fits well with travel on an east Indiaman or P&O steamer bound for the Cape and beyond, it is also stated to have come from the Romany. Never heard it applied to navigation lights. 'SCUBA' is purely Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus – created from the words, and not 'by' them.
In the northeast and east of England the term staithe or staith is used (from the Norse for landing stage). Another explanation may be that the word 'wharf' comes, like a lot of naval terms, from the dutch word "werf" which means 'yard', an outdoor place where work is done, like a shipyard or a timberyard.
Coal staithes:
http://www.dmm-gallery.org.uk/gallery/0004-000.htm
Coal staithes could also be found in most railway goods yards, and small coal yards throughout the Country, usually made from railway sleepers into which the various grades of coal were kept (I have a book on buildings made from railway sleepers, mostly in the Scottish Highlands. But I digress.)
In using the word 'structure', it is easy to fall into believing such to be a building - open or closed – and indeed it could be so, but also is true that a structure be of a solid material to enable loading and unloading onto a flat surface, this surface may have the name wharf, quay or jetty.
Quay; Middle English key, kay from Old French chai, cay, from Gaulish caio, rampart, retaining wall.
Jetty; a pier, groyne, mole or other structure extending out over a body of water. However, Middle English has jette, from the Old French jetee, a jutting, projection – such as the upper floors of Tudor buildings over the street on 'jetties' – jetee from the feminine past participle of jeter, to throw, project – from which we also get the word jet as in engine.
Many and varied are the meanings of words, so much so, that at times a grunt or a smack on the head with a club might serve more definitively.
Derek
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On the N/B Jimmy when I was on it, it still had these iron rings poking out of the upper hull on the insides. They were about every 12ft or so and were used in the days when it carried a loose cargo. Chains would be connected to them across the boat to stop the sides bowing out when it was fully laden. What were these rings called?
Don't know that they had any particular name as such, just chain rings. Rigging screws were linked between two short chains and tightened sufficiently to keep the sides from spreading when loaded with loose cargo, but that's already known. Chain stay ring might be a name they were known as, but then again there may have been a local variation in naming them if any.
Derek
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Thanks Steve. The first time I saw Renton was when on maintenance duties, and tied near the Navigation, Cosgrove. Must have been post '83 - no blade in place. Later we passed it tied below Leighton lock, and Ian tells me the name of the gent who steered it and lived at Leighton lock - and whose name I've forgotten
. Ian also reckons Renton's blade is (was) in the hold acting as ballast. Seem to recall Caroline Jones and co. have possession of Renton now. Might be wrong.Ian also remembers Sickle with a blade on - same as Tycho - when he first started on Waterways in 1972ish. It got torched off some time after then. The happy chappie at Cassio lock reckons Tycho should have the blade off too. Testacles to 'im.
Here's a pair of heavenly twins:
I don't know why my pics are coming out small, but you should just be able to see the brackets on Sickles bow.
Rivet counters will see an excess around the bow plates, these were to hold on the extra layer of plating put on from within.
DerekEDIT: Just to say Tycho was shortened and kitted with its blade also at Bulls Bridge - 21 December '42 (date number from a hat? Perhaps a date used as work done 'up to' for ledger purposes). Perhaps they had refined their approach to blade design in the months between Renton's kit and subsequent. The vertical stub might well have been added to Tycho's blade by Matty's for stemming Joey's using chain (credit to Blossom for that).
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Veering away from topic
Possibly Renton was given the ice blade the same time as the four Middle Northwich boats - which was 1942. However, there might be some doubt about that as Renton's blade was of a different design. Then again, what designs were Sickle, Theophilus, and Sextans - were they the same as Tycho? If they were, it might lead one to think Renton had been fitted up elsewhere than Bulls Bridge, if so, then it may also have been at a different time.
Renton:
Derek
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I don't know why I didn't look inside the book before, I guess it's because I spotted Snowflake on the back cover, that was all there was. The frontispiece also carries the photo, and the following which bears out Pete's knowledge:
"This extremely evocative photograph by Fred H. Done was taken at Whatcroft near Northwich on the Trent and Mersey canal, on a winter's afternoon in the late 1930's. The boat, aptly named Snowflake, is most probably from the fleet of Potter and Son of Runcorn. While there was considerable activity in the 1930's on the Grand Union to modernise that waterway, in the Midlands and the north trade on the canals was gradually declining. This picture has won for its photographer a number of photographic awards before World War II."
Derek
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This one?
A section of the larger picture, and features on the back cover of Michael Ware's 'Narrow boats at work' by Moorland publishing ISBN 0 86190 144 4
"Winter on the Trent & Mersey canal near Northwich in 1930's. (photo: Fred H. Done)"
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(snipped)
My preference was to paint the cabin floor with red oxide primer (flat finish so non slip) and have a small section of carpet / rug that could be moved out of the way of water leaking in from the sky or lock gates, could easily be taken outside for a good clean / beating and the red oxide primer allowed the wooden floor to breath.
Exactly! Bit of old stair runner or a little rug - take it out, beat it to death, whip the boards up, put it all back.
There's black and white chequers in that Marmoleum site, not in the 'business', but under >products >vinyl >Nairn cushionfloor >signature No. 85740, and bigger chequers in >Supreme tile (not actual tiles) No. 85698
Still wouldn't touch'em.
"The wrong side"? What's that when it's out? It might be a matter of opinion, but for my money the 'wrong' side is with the firebox nearest the step. Why? Nothing to do with warming the air - shut the doors. Everything to do with the flue. Cabin chimney collars are nearer the table cupboard, so with the firebox on the right, and with a well designed stove that circulates hot gas around the oven, the exit from the stove should be on the right with the least amount of bends in the pipe to the collar. If you have a left hand firebox and a right hand outlet from the stove top that might be OK, but I prefer a firebox door away from my size tens going in a cabin.
A 'Larbert', better suited to a Butty, bit I'll shoe horn it in. Should be fun. Shan't be using the fretwork trivet - big feet.
A 'Classic' with an iffy flue long gone, but look at the tortuous route! Makes for a hard to light, and won't stay in stove.
Northwich's had ranges fitted from Yarwoods with a right hand box. Guidwife's mostly.
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(snipped)
However I cheat here, I have a pointy thing that you poke through and it then opens up its little jaws, grips a strip of rag and I pull it back through. It's a lot easier than pushing but I don't know what the thing is called.
(snipped)
Locker Needle Hooks - Bit like a crochet hook, and a 'prodder' is another tool. Some huge variations on rugs with different effects depending on materials used. There's a good book published by Letts under contemporary crafts called simply 'Rag Rugs' (wow) by Ann Davies ISBN 1-85238-341-0, 95 pages hardback £10.95 - mine came from a charity shop 50p!
Google Rag Rugs - you'll be amazed, even Youtube videos - one technique I wouldn't have thought of. Very much show exactly how.
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They were very attractive, warm, and could almost be looked upon as some kind of status symbol - rather like brass knobs and ribbon plates. Don't know if many were on the boats, but very popular in houses right up until designer bedding took hold.
Mostly made from old cardigans and jumpers I guess. Colour was everything, the ones pieced together from squares were easier to make - but you know that!!
Was going to add - a used fleece top has been mentioned for mop material. Not tried that though.
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I reckon that's about right regarding rag rugs. I had a kit given to me for Christmas ten years ago - got through six square inches and lost patience!
Quite a few old folk had them in houses - My Nan had one - semi-circular in front the hearth. We had a little one on 'Yarmouth', but that came from Mr. Tooley at Banbury. Out the little caravan if I remember right after Louise said she liked it. We'd topped up with diesel there in '83.
A bit more on Croxley Blanket: Got an email back from Dickinson's, from a Mr Watson of "On the paper trail":
I suspect this is a drying Felt, they were discarded after 6months or so. They made good carpets also I understand for the mill workers.
Derek
PS Whilst it's not my choice, lino is more practical being easy to mop. I prefer a bit of stair runner that can be lifted easy to get the floor up, or dry out in the engine 'ole.
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Bit of a search after Blossom's Blanket;
Felt blanket was used to help drain the water from the paper during the paper making process.
From a few websites;
Cotton - source of fibre for papermaking, usually in the form of linters or rags. The fibres are strong and flexible and suited to the production of fine papers.
Felts - material woven from either cotton or wool with a raised surface which supports the wet sheet of paper during the stages of removal of water.
Linen - Linum usitatissimum, term covers either flax or linen as a source of fibre, often in the form of rags. The fibres are hard and fibrillate easily.
Rags - formerly the principal raw material for making paper, now rarely used except for very high quality papers. Could be linen or cotton but by association also includes jute, sailcloth and hemp ropes.
From: Glossary of paper makers terminology
http://www.baph.org.uk/general%20reference...ing%20terms.htm
The use of felt is mentioned here in John Dickinsons patent cylinder mould.
http://www.baph.org.uk/imagepages/quarterly/q04p4.html
A quote from Bilt Paper:- "As the paper flows along the wire mesh and water is drained along the way, a dandy roller near the end helps to smooth out the paper. The dandy roller improves the formation of the paper web by application of pressure. When the paper reaches the end of the wire mesh it is transferred to a felt blanket which conveys it through many steam heated driers to remove the excess moisture."
http://www.biltpaper.com/removing.htm
That's something else I didn't know!
Derek
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Round where?
From the roundy round thing under the counter - like round and round the garden . . .
S'inglishinnit.
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Probably from round there props when going thru textile factorys next to the canal?
Well, there is that. But most would have come from the same place it always has - off someone's back and bed.
What used to be collected by the Rag and Bone man now goes into skips for third world countries (or so we are told - and probably just another lie), and they are usually bursting at the seams as well.
Things are more 'valued' when in demand, and that may well have been more the case fifty years ago than todays 'wear it once and chuck it' lifestyle. You don't 'need' much for life in a back cabin, it's just peoples 'wants' that get in the way. There's a shot in 'Inland Waterways' where 'Jack' goes in the stores to draw 'Cloth' for cleaning, and seems to get a bar of Carbolic soap as well. Church Hall 'Jumble Sales' were all the rage too. Now we have Car Boot sales and Ebay.
Where did it come from? - off someone's back and bed - and maybe fought for!
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From a quick observation, the handle looks wrong in as much as when folded back over the pouring handle, the arched support would be missed by the wooden roller by a mile. There's an uptilt to the pouring lip which shouldn't pose any problem, though the lid doesn't look to be closing evenly. Hard to say, 'hands on' the only test - and "for decoration"? Coventry based seller.
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Martin
IIRC, one of the restored trans pennine routes (Rochdale?), large amounts of the canal has regularly spaced ancient mooring rings in the towpath, obviously provided by the canal company. If boats only tie up at wharfs, how do you explain these?
I'll wager there might be the remains of a stable block not far away either.
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If you get hold of a copy of 'The Horse on The Cut' by Donald J. Smith, you will find several photographs of horses pulling pairs - sometimes two animals used in tandem, which would work well North of Braunston as each animal could take a boat a piece through the single locks. Bit of a calculated guess there, but seems most plausible.
Quite often it was the children who took charge of the animals along the towpath while parents steered and worked the locks. Though personal abilities would of course dictate.
The name Monk seems to have come about from a boat builder as mentioned, and I think there may also be a lot of strength in Paul's comment. I can imagine the term 'Monk boat' taken up with much glee amongst London Lightermen towards people living in little boxes built by some bloke called Monk - and quickly attributing the size for 'Monkeys'!! But as with many things attached to the cut, there's a good bit of folk law and fact jumbled together. Some roots are simple, others vague.
Derek
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Only if suitable as accomodation for ducks I suspect...
Arnot
No - a 'Ducking' stool . . . signed for suitable candidates from; MP's, BW officials, and NIMBY's.
. Ian also reckons Renton's blade is (was) in the hold acting as ballast. Seem to recall Caroline Jones and co. have possession of Renton now. Might be wrong.
Chertsey
in History & Heritage
Posted
Curses! I'd give my bottom plate for one of them . . . cornflakes and all.