Derek R.
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Posts posted by Derek R.
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I wonder if part of the problem - that of attracting money - isn't something to do with the canal being available to walk along and see boats for free just about everywhere, and that those who are interested in the detailed histories of craft, carriers and customs are already immersed up to their necks with private collections and maintenance, in short - waterways anoraks. Railway museums house big shiny steel behemoths that attract, the various outings they take onto rails are highly patronised by young and old through their rarity, sounds and smells. Whereas boats are everywhere, yet how many other than the knowledgeable know the difference between something historic, a liveaboard 'Pot' farm, and a bow thrusted floating jacuzzi? Moreover, everyone has memories of USING the railways on an everyday basis - travelling to work, and on holidays - for many they were part of our formative years, many knew someone who worked 'On the Railway'. The boats and the people of the boats were a segregated community and lifestyle, as were the docks and dock life and I'll wager more people knew about being 'On the Stones' than on the boats.
I wonder if it doesn't all boil down to knowledge and nostalgia. 'Archives - what archives?'
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Waterways Industrial archives are in danger because they are insignificant to this or any former government.
If Gloucester has had a major expensive revamp, it sounds like a move prior to selling off as does every household wishing to get the most for their pile of bricks. It is disgraceful how industrial heritage is treated, not just by those at the top, but even some grass roots users though worst of all the abusers with graffiti and damage.
As money is always at the root, consider the MOD's costing of Iraq since 2003 - £7,836 Billion pounds - critics say that would be enough to fund 25,200 teachers for 10 years and to build 107 new hospitals. In comparison, that needed to support our industrial heritage would be a drop in the cut. Power and 'Face', at any cost. http://tinyurl.com/3gmgzk
75,000 homes to be re-possessed in 2009 compared to 49,000 this year. 'Woolies' goes along with 27,000 employees jobs. Industry in debt - Gov.plc legacy.
Stock up on grub, bar the door, and prepare to rebel boarders.
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(snip)
" We sent De Hoop back into the docks and got a two-finger salute from the dockers who said "So what! You're still blacked".
(snip)
I can relate to that, and wasn't even carrying.
We had a big Tjalk and had been headed for Maldon from up-river to take a mud berth as residential - unconverted, so looked like a trader. Attempted to moor on the Esplanade pier at Gravesend only to be sworn at by a bloke waving his arms and saluting in the aforementioned manner. With the aid of the Harbourmaster over the VHF we moored against BG1, and old 'Oiler' on the tiers, and left her tied there for a day. There was no charge.
Came back and all was well, set off down river. Had cause to anchor off Southend due to deteriorating weather and had a rough night. With the flood lifting us harshly, the anchor chain just gave - snapped clean as a whistle. Shackled the spare a bit quick, but we'd got steerage way by then so made deeper water, and back up with the flood.
Back on the 'Oiler', left the Avon tied at the pier (with permission), came back next day. Avon upside down, outboard submerged, thwart and oars gone, fresh anti-fouling all over the Avon. No one knew a thing; the mate had to bribe the guard to let him on the pier with a can of fresh petrol; and I still maintain to this day someone had a go at our chain.
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The other half of the grain contract to Coxes, a few shots I took while on duty as an idler.
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I've known it as Wigrams for best part of 30 years along with the folklore behind its origins. Much at it's nice to know the truth behind the tale, it should definitely keep the vernacular in my book, though I'd have thought it would have been boatmans dialect rather than the local.... Short of any official recognition its the boatmen who have perpetuated the the name.
You're correct, I should have qualified 'local' a bit better. 'Cut' vernacular would have been more appropriate. I wonder if the locals who lived thereabouts knew his homestead as anything different. If John Wiggerham carried out medicinal practices around and about, and with eight children to boot, I'm sure he would have been known as Mister or even 'Dr.' Wigg'rham by the agricultural population, hardly any step at all to abbreviate - especially in speech - to 'Wigram', and certainly not out of disrespect to his full name. In fact, I don't reckon there would have been a cats chance in hell of him being called anything but 'Wigram'!
Thinking of the vernacular and books for a moment, most will know of Sheila Stewarts 'Ramlin Rose', another title 'Lifting the Latch' is a gem. A true story of an agricultural workers life around Enstone in Oxfordshire - 'Old Mont', 1902-1989. (Oxford University Press).
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Excellent detail. May I join in thanking Laurence Wiggerham for supplying. In that simple function, the name of 'Wigrams' whenever heard, can now be related to the true origins of the name, the family, and their occupation that much is certain. As to whether it will be changed from 'Wigrams' to Wiggerhams is less likely, originating as it almost certainly has from local dialect and a lack of knowledge of spelling which has in itself become history in the vernacular, rather like 'Starrupsend' being returned to Star Tops End, and 'Maffas' Marsworth - but the knowledge is now more complete - many thanks.
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All this seems to fit well with a sighting I had in Berko when first nosing around the cut. I was looking across at Bridgewater Boats in the late seventies, and saw a rather elegant stern poking out the end of the slipway. I walked around and introduced myself to Mike Foster who was working on the boat. He told me it was the Inspection Launch for the Canal Company. This may have been sometime during Mary's ownership, or perhaps in a phase of changing ownership.
Nice to see it fully restored and cared for.
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Super pictures, Derek,
Very evocative for both myself and OH, being both former employees at Apsley.
Incidentally although always known as "Dickinsons", it was by the 1970s already part of the larger "Dickinson Robinson Group" (DRG), with head office in Bristol, and on who's payroll we were on. "Sellotape" was part of the same outfit, and our computer resources were shared with several subsidiary companies like this.
Cheers, I had a couple more but the program had told me I'd used up my allocation! I'll try again:-
Forty three years down the line the Wartime camouflage paint was still crisp. The older date is now affixed to Sainsbury's supermarket wall fronting the canal. The roadside frontage almost had as many buildings. One that remains, and was the main staff entrance as I recall with the Dickinsons clock with not numbers, but the twelve letters of 'Basildon Bond' in their place, was the stage for a daily tsunami of employees. A great crowd would line up behind a white line, fags in mouth - lighters ready (strict no smoking in the mill) waiting for the siren and the nod from the watchful eyes of security. The 'Off' saw a mass of humanity charge across the road and board the fleets of buses - one of which I ocassionally drove - to begin the grind up through Hemel Hempstead and home.
Many thanks to Alan & Catrin for filling in some gaps in my former knowledge.
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These shots are twenty years apart. Despite their run down appearance, I've always found the industrial concentrations far more interesting than twee housing developments. Wanders is another example of disappearing heritage.
The unloading arm at Apsley, late eighties.
Today
The old unloading crane a few yards further on and on the towpath side
Today
Apsley Bottom No.67
Today
Looking North, back towards Lock 67 and from which windows the ladies were asking Ronnie "Where's Hemel?"
Today
Looking back through Bridge 154, the double arched one
Today
Nash Mills
Today
Nash unloading point. This coal was delivered by road.
Today
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I'm definitely not a bus 'Anorak', [Yes you are . . .]
But I'm confident huge numbers of "roof box" RTs were not constructed until after the war.
This source suggests 1169 built like this from 1946 onwards.....
Yeah - I mess up now and then.
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That would have been 'Powys Princess', a Middle Northwich butty as I recall.
'Planet' was similarly equipped:
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...i&img=3029#
Steve
Powys Princess (Scales). Later returned to fully cloth'd up butty and electric powered by all accounts. Was featured in the opening (re-opening) of the Welshpool section in a Waterways World issue way back - Prince Charles doing the ribbon cutting and viewing the boat.
The rooves are from two Pre-War London Transport double deck RT's, known as 'roof box' RT's as they had a route number indicator box front centre. This was discontinued in the post-war production models. They also have the seats and vertical poles along with the wind up windows. Think they came from a scrappy.
Bet you didn't want to know all that.
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Hard to tell much with my crap eyesight, given the resolution of the scan isn't great.
I suspect you can see a lot more detail on the original.
The motor appears to me to be in BW plain blue with the yellow lettering, but that of course does not preclude it being in use by Willow Wren.
My family owned what I know as a Water Baby, and they were very low slung affairs - quite distinctive. The boat I think you are referring to, (very little detail) is much too tall to be one of those, but perhaps other boats were also tagged Water Babies? I can't even tell if it's front or rear end towards us, but I think it may be front ? (I said my eyes were bad!).
Not so much poor eyesight as poor photo. Here's a few more I did messing with resolution and scanner. It's printed on matt paper which doesn't help.
Possibly a 'Water Miss' but more likely a lifeboat conversion, in which case it could be the front or the back!
Petter type air outlet on the roof, blue and yellow water can? Waterways transfers on white doors?
As good as it will get. Kick plate along the gunnel is there. Is that a big circle with a Wren on it? Really can't say. Someone will know it, and the steerers.
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Here's another that 'fell out of an album' - 60's Stoke Bruerne - but which boat? WW? Is that Bill Whitlock setting his beret straight?
Taken by a D. West. Converted butty on the towpath, and what could be a 'Water Baby' or a 'lifeboat' conversion between it and the white cruiser (very dark though).
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One dug up in a Wells-Next-The-Sea bookshop by my other half - 'Small Boat On The Thames' by Roger Pilkington, Macmillan 1966. I read his 'Small Boat Through Sweden' many years ago, and honestly cannot remember much of it. Then, he took the 'Commodore', an ex-naval 'Admirals Barge' 60' x approx 9', 3' draught, through the canals of Sweden (Carl would love it), a vessel of great character.
The 'Thames' book is done on its replacement - 'Thames Commodore', a steel hulled cruiser built at Blackwell Point, and fitted out at Toughs, Teddington. The building of the boat I found interesting, along with some Thames customs and characters, but he waxes almost lyrical about the family fortunes and misfortunes of so many Hall and Abbey owners along the trip, I found tedium creeping in, though probably just personal preference for 'river action' detail such as that encountered in a re-telling of a Kennet & Avon trip in the old 'Commodore', and encounters with Reading bridges. Where this trip does get interesting is in the description of the Thames and Severn Canal, the various little bridges described en route, the dinghy trip to Cricklade, and the walk to Thames Head. Many Thames side villages are described as well as those a little way off, in fact, the Thames Valley in general is pretty well laid out in its history.
The boat is not described in any detail, though the farewell party planned to be taken in Little Venice before the beginning of a French cruise was interesting, as much ballast had to be taken aboard and top hamper removed to negotiate the Regent's from Limehouse. That trip was defeated by Maida Tunnel, and so the 'party' was held in Cumberland basin where they were made most welcome.
No photo's, but charming pen and ink drawings punctuate the book. The description of the still working Thames below bridges is also a bonus, but recognised as a dwindling resource. All for the grand sum of £1.50.
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Nice photo ?
If it originates from 35mm film, might not the "3a" on the back just be the negative number ? I guess it depends on how others in the collection are numbered, if at all.
(snip)
Alan
As the number also appeared on one other we have, I suspect it may have been a reference to the exhibitor/competitor.
The fuzziness in the trees seems in part a product of the scanner, the original is just the leaf edges blurred by Sunlight. The other numbered shot is of canal, hedgerow, field and tree. Fairly unremarkable, but captures tranquillity. Amateur 'arty' stuff.
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Fell over this shot just yesterday. Had it for ages, being amongst a collection in a discarded album (a car boot purchase) from a family who cruised in the sixties. It seems they were members of Willowbridge cruising club and lived in Wiggington, Herts. (near Tring) and towed a little boat behind a Riley 1.5. It's the only photo including a working boat, and while the shot reproduced here is not as clear as the print, the beginning of the name looks like FLA and I think it could be Flamingo. Whether it's paired here with Beverley with the Wards', or Cygnus and the Withys' might be determined by seeking out Ron Withy. I see Ron Green steered Flamingo too at one time.
It's not a print I have seen published anywhere, and this might be its first outing in public (so to speak). The photographer seems to have liked taking pictures, and this has a nice back lit well composed Summer theme - probably a bank holiday. The back of the print has very tidy writing in long-hand (whatever happened to writing standards?). In pencil:- "Oxford arm. Canal at Newbold-on-Avon near Rugby". There is also a number 3A, which suggests it may have been in some photographic competition or exhibition, so perhaps not quite its 'first outing'.
There's what looks like a tidy 'bulk' to the cratch, it's certainly not decorated.
Edit: I might add, they are tied up. The butty's tiller is 'up', and someone is sitting on the butty roof with legs in the hatches possibly conversing with a group on the bank.
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Indeed,
My memory of Sam Horne was not so much in a boating context, but as when he had become the lengthman for a stretch that would have been included in the first part of your travels with Warbler and Stanton.
I've heard a few interesting tales, including having turned up at gates which were doing their job, despite vandals having completely removed the gate collars. When we think anti-social behaviour is rife today, it's easy to forget it wasn't much different 30 or 40 years ago.
Sam was also an excellent gardener, and for many years the areas each side of the upper Sweers Two locks was kept in prrize-winning condition.
The account in the book Derek mentions is well worth a read, although I found the whole thing more of a "pick at it" kind of book, rather than one to be read straight through cover to cover. Undoubtedly more accurate telling of boat people's lives than the sentimentalised twaddle turned out by the likes of Tim Coghlan.
On the subject of Roses Lime Juice, I wrongly told Les D the other day that I thought Boxmoor was just a wharfage area, and that the pulp was taken on from there to St Albans for processing.
It appears I'm wrong, and that the pulp was processed in oak vats at Boxmoor. I was partly right, as it was apparently then taken to St Albans to bottle.
Some information here.....
http://www.hemeltoday.co.uk/CustomPages/Cu...px?PageID=68474
Interesting bit on Rose's, I remember looking across at a yard full of barrels.
Not wishing to counter Alan, but Sam himself admitted he wasn't that much of a gardener though clearly took a great pride in the lock-side at Sweeps - everything painted up, flowers in troughs and neatly trimmed grass - I'm rubbish at gardening but can make good with sheers and a mower, not so sure about plants though - so he must be better than me! Lately it's gone downhill, but Sam's hips were giving him serious trouble back in the late eighties with him popping in and out of hospital. Dare say the will power is there but the bones won't let it happen. Nice bloke, wears an ear-ring with a gold cross hanging from it. Gladys and he did work for Barlows and Willow Wren for a while, but it didn't suit Gladys as the Jam'ole run was unload and straight back North. Gladys had friends around Bulls Bridge and she missed the meeting up, one reason why they left WW and went on to 'Waterways'. It's all in the book, and a worth while read too for those with rose tints - chucking ash and sawdust down the sides of a dried out butty just loaded in RCD to stop the water pouring in - no fun. A quiet bloke Sam, but very much his own man.
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Would that have been Gladys who came out to talk to us (well, Ros) when she saw Warbler? She didn't really look old enough but she definitely said she'd worked Warbler, and it was a lock cottage in the vicinity of Berkhamsted.
My father knew one of the Roses (they were involved in setting up the Engineerium steam museum in Hove) and regaled us with tales of how often they had to replace the granite rollers they used for crushing the limes (every three or six months I think). Granite was the most durable material they could find; steel was out of the question. Apparently.
Sam & Gladys are in the lockside cottage at Sweeps, the one above the Rising Sun lock (together 'sweeps two'). Gladys would be late seventies now. Excellent account of them and verbatim interviews in 'Tales from the Old Waterways' by Euan Corrie, David & Charles publishers. Sam and Gladys worked Warbler and Wagtail for a time. I seem to remember she mentioned the butty Berkhamsted too, but whether it was with Bainton I can't say.
I should think citric acid with steel rollers would end up with some pretty unpalatable lime juice!! (no expert).
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I would not think that the fewer numbers should indicate either a lack of enthusiasm in participating, or any feeling of inadequacy in organisational effort. In fact, I think three 'pairs' might be a perfect number. For one, there might be less moaning from some quarters, and smaller parcels often carry more desirable goods! After all, hundreds turn out to watch a steam hauled train along the tracks - it comes, flashes past - and gone, that's it. You don't get six one after the other.
Well done Tom.
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Hope this wasn't my fault - I notice my post (before i found the plan i have got) says BW58/10/5/1/44 is the definitive one, whereas the plan i have - i spent a morning in the archive looking at them all - is BW58/10/5/1/46 which shows 4 sections looking forward
(snip)
Blame? Heavens no Chris - The one I have is sufficient to satisfy my curiosity. Most of the woodwork in Tycho has sufficient locations remaining, and with enough of the 'saved' pieces either going back in or being used as pattern, I have no need for anything more detailed. Pity I couldn't get down to Gloucester for a visit, always the best way. I did have an exchange of emails with Caroline Jones at Gloucester and she reckoned the one I have chosen would provide enough detail - which it does. I just hadn't bargained on it being the same as was printed in WW magazine (albeit only one side) back in the eighties - that's where an 'eyes on' visit wins, though a trip there and back would have cost a lot more than £16.50!!
Derek
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search for these;
BW58/10/5/1/46 Found it - this one contains everything you need.
BW153/46/4
BW153/25/3
BW58/10/5/1/44 think this is the definitive one
or try "cabin" and wade through the results. or ring the Gloucester archive and ask - very helpful people.
When i can find mine, I'll post the reference numbers.
£45? tschk.
Get down to the archive. Mr Hogg may tell you he has 'enhanced' these plans but the ones i have are in very good condition and cost me £7 each.
and remember; as part of British Waterways Archives these belong to you.
Just an update:
I wrote to Gloucester archives and enquired about lock gate and cabin plans. I was give a list, and selected BW58/10/5/1/44 GUCCCo cabin plan. The cost is £16.50 for each and they come on a CD. I was advised up to two weeks may elapse before arrival, and so it was to the day.
The CD contains one picture file of the plan as traced and sent from GUCCCo to boat builders. My initial reaction was disappointment - I already had half of it from a Waterways World article years ago. The single 'plan' is in fact two side elevations of the internal woodwork including range. All dimensions are there, and any that are not can be calculated from others.
Curiously, there is no back step, but an Ash deck and another Ash step inside and lower down which would seem to be needing another - presumably the top of the coal box not shown - to complete access to the cabin floor. The range is set on a shelf, but has no cupboard beneath, just a leg "If needed". Just about everything else is as one would expect things to be. It was commented in the WW article that this side elevation would appear to be for a Royalty motor, though no mention of that is on the plan.
Some items of interest:There a 'Pantry' beneath the back deck accessed from behind and below the first step down, so that one has to reach in to a smaller compartment, then up, into the main body of the box pantry. The knife drawer is seven inches from lower edge to top and with a recessed panel. Mines only four inches and plenty big enough for the contents, certainly not recessed panelling either.
The side bed elevation I have not seen before. One surprise here is a four inch high folding ledge that hinges out from the vertical, to horizontal, thereby increasing the useable width of the side bed. There are cabin hooks at either end which locate in the end of the modesty partition, and the foot of the weather board at the other. Quite how the side bed would have been sat upon when upright is a puzzle. This 'extension ledge' may have been what Mrs. Jean Peters referred to in her Wartime memoirs when speaking of a hinged board that met the step.
There is no air vent in the cabin roof on the plan.
These items do bring about the probability that boat builders would have modified some items to suit what they considered 'better' practice.
Whilst it should be noted Tycho's cabin has been rebuilt substantially at least once in its life (early eighties?) and is in no way a standard to compare all others by, it is very substantial in construction and layout, and I suspect based on knowledge of other ex-working boats. Only real difference (apart from 'pantry, and a cupboard under the range) is that the cupboard over the bed'ole has just one central door 11" wide, whereas the plan shows two, with an internal division in the cupboard and the left hand door fitted with lock and key. Both unpanelled.
Interesting plan, but expected more.
Derek
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It's difficult to understand why a whole genre of Birmingham boat should have been named after a mayor. Are the boats working on London's Olympic site going to be known as Kens or Boris's?
I too was told they were named after the prolific boatbuilders Worsey all of whom who had all called Joe for several generations. My source was Malcolm Braine who knew the last Joe personally.
It is easy to see how a major builder's name "oh that's one of Joe's" began to applied to all boats of the same type - similar to what happened to Hoover and Biro.
I think many of Yates output (the other major builder) were Hampton boats.
And as I've said before most were refered to just as boats or even barges by the men who worked them.
Paul H
Do I detect a case of Anoraksia Nameosa?
Derek
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OK, I know it's not a butty
Tim
Nah! That's a bad case of eczma.
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I'm having the same trouble Alan had. Can't find this restricted extras package, and seem to have no control over font style. I can make it bigger, but that's not the requirement.
Any more clues chaps?
Sorted!
Applications>Add/Remove>show all available> scroll down to 'ubuntu restricted extras'> add.
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No, nor can I with any certainty.
Lorna looks like she belonged to something like the Shropshire Union Railways and Canal Company (SURCC), as there appears to be a 'R' on the cabinside below the start of 'Shrop.....".
There will be those far more knowledgable than I about such boats.
To answer you other post, there are very few wooden narrowboats of this kind of era surviving. It is likely that all those shown have long ceased to exist.
Any wooden boats of that era tend to have very little of the original wood still in place, (... he pauses and waits for correction from Carl
).Lorna, Elizabeth, and Four Sisters. Henry Chatter & Son(s), Brierly Hill, and as Alan says - SURCC.
Derek
Waterways Museums and Archives in real danger?
in History & Heritage
Posted
I think you would soon have an entire community of people willing to live a retro lifestyle at the BCM, but cash rears its ugly head. Outside of that, there are quite a few folk living fifties and even forties lifestyles - including driving period cars, furnishing the house, as well as make up and clothing - quite a few in their twenties too.
Just off for a perm in the Anglia . . .
Ultimately it will be the private individual who becomes guardians of heritage. Multi-millionaires might be sought out for larger facilities, for who would trust government!