Derek R.
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Posts posted by Derek R.
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Morning - Ta, good point.
Derek
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The caption states "The last coal run" but was it?
Albert's two in Cassio, from D.D. Gladwin's 'An Illustrated History of British Waterways' published by Spur 1977 (P.145) shows a black and white shot taken from the top gates of "Cassiobury Top Lock 1970" with a gent in a beret steering the motor (and just beyond the bottom gates), and a lady in a headscarf and short 'shiny' jacket steering the butty 'Ara' - no writing on the cabin sides, loaded, cloths rolled up and a bike on the coal.
Another question: Why 'Albert's two', and sometimes 'Mary's Two' (same pair of locks). We know about 'Sutton's', but who were Albert and Mary? Come to that - Peter below Maffas? Just local character/lock keepers, or is there a story?
Derek
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Cardboard? - Cheapskates! I'd thought of drilling a small hole in each end of the tube, and squirting expanding filler in. Wait for it to ooze out the other end, trim when set, fill, sand and paint.
I agree the cross-heads need some movement to get the needles working, and for all I know there probably is some, but greased often enough, and the occasional disconnect for a waggle around should see them out live me. Not like they are under the stresses that a lorry would take.
Derek
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Only a few, but I've not seen them before. Most are of the Thames, but a few around Uxbridge and Brentford.
The Swan and Bottle seems to have changed - a bit!
http://www.ltmcollection.org/photos/themes...=1&IXpage=1
Derek
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That Layrub coupling looks about as close to the metalastic that came out of Tycho than any of the others.
I seem to remember it appeared like a solid rubber disc sandwiched between two metal plates. Quite how exactly it was fixed to the plates was not clear, no bolt heads could be seen, and tough as new motocross boots, but then it was seven years ago I last set eyes on it. Not only would it take some misalignment, it had a very good ability to transmit thrust ahead and astern. Also would take some of the shock when the blades hit hard objects - and It was mounted just as Tim states. Whilst we had no problems with our block deteriorating, we have heard of other types of flexible couplings involving flexible plates bolted at the lugs alternately to one plate then the other, failing catastrophically. The Layrub that Neil refers to looks more substantial, though the ability to efficiently transmit thrust might be in question, and I'll expand out of interest (hopefully - though not experience of the Layrub).
It was the reverse/forward thrust issue that needed to be addressed when changing from our metalastic system to the lorry prop. The positioning of the plummer blocks mounted on the boats bottom in the previous setup meant that when on dock, the flexing that took place (bed'ole wouldn't close etc.) put stress on the shaft (depends where the stocks are of course). This in turn had worn the tailshaft and bearing prematurely - not that much flexing if any took place when afloat - but the shaft was not as well contained in its movement as would have been best for tail shaft alignment due to the distance from plummer block to tailshaft. The lorry shaft with its two UJ's is mounted between the reduction box output flange and the tailshaft flange and supported at the back by a new plummer block mounted on a cross web between the swim plates close to the tail shaft - and the reduction box output bearing at the front. This latter gave rise to showing up a problem that the previous set up had hidden:
The old plummer block was fairly close to the reduction box output and had the effect of supporting the short reduction box output shaft and flange thereby keeping it more or less well aligned in the casing. The thrust bearing mounted in the output had worn, and now with the length of the new shaft weighing on it, showed its failing in an 'orrible clankety clank from under the floor in astern. It started this half way up the Stockton flight after leaving the dock. Sounded like the blades were hitting something. Thought it was a bit of ballast touching the shaft coupling bolt heads. None of the above!
The drop in attitude of the reduction box output allowed due to the worn bearing, had tilted the larger pinion in the reduction box (3:1) and was allowing the cast web supports (four if I recall right) of the pinions face to contact one of the internal cast web supports of the reduction box casing. The sound was being amplified by the new hollow lorry shaft to frightening proportions. I soldiered on, and did a lot of strapping on that trip. I called Graeme, and he said there shouldn't be anything basically wrong with the set up, but to check that reduction box output bearing. Sure enough, it was at fault.
One other point to bring up with such changes. The old reduction box bearing was a double ball race thrust bearing, the old plummer block bearing, I believe was not. The new tailshaft is now mounted in its stern tube bearing and a plummer block about eighteen inches forward of it. This bearing is now the thrust bearing, and the replacement that went into the reduction box output is a non-thrust bearing. Noise gone - problem solved. Or is it?
The thought occurs to me, that such a length of steel in the form of prop shaft from rearmost plummer block to reduction box complete with two UJ's, that the expansion and contraction of the steel in the shaft, compared to the steel of the hull, will place 'some' load on that non-thrust bearing dependent upon tempaerature. The question is - how much, and will it have any detrimental effect? One solution to alleviate any such load through temperature change, might be to have the lorry prop machined and put a spline in place. The only problem with that (as I see it) is an additional introduction of a moving part prone to more wear and possible misalignment also. So it's staying as it is, with the aft most plummer block taking thrust. When not locked to the shaft, I can slide the tailshaft back and inch, and lift the lorry prop clear for access to ballast and bilge which was a lot harder with the old set up, and I know the tailshaft ain't moving out of alignment.
Sorry this has drifted away from metalastic Tim, but it seemed to be associated knowledge and experience that might aid decisions for those in a similar situation (nearly said 'same boat'!).
Derek
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I haven't been 'on the ground' thereabouts, but from the satellite pictures there looks to be what might have been foundations of a stable block close by the first lock and near the turnover bridge on the south side of the first lock. Also being a junction between two canals, some control over tolls to be collected might have needed a small building at least.
Only a calculated guess I'm afraid.
Derek
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So, do I win the Wooden Spoon award?
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This crops up every year. We have a contributor from; Manchester; Bath; and the Peak Forest. If any of those folk have been personally disadvantaged in any way by such a run, perhaps their complaints can be directed to the alleged miscreants.
Would any who are actually, or might be affected by the passing of a train of boats like to speak up? There will always be some.
In '83 we were headed for Wigan and the IWA National. Our path was a slow three month cruise taking in the Peak Forest and Ashton canals. At the top of Marple we were hailed and vociferously complained to by a resident boater (we also lived afloat at that time) in that we were using water that they needed to keep afloat. 'Too many boats going to the National' was the cry.
There are some I will not boat with, and whose practices I do not condone. This is not a moan about whingers, nor a voice for letting 'em rip as some might like to in recreating what they believe was standard practice years ago. But it does seem that whenever something from the past turns up in the garden, out come the guns - it's hunting season. Be it traction engines, old lorries, old buses, old motorbikes with speeds that 'hold up' the modern traffic - something that gives off a little smoke, picking Blackberries from a hedgerow "you know that's stealing" - if anything is certain, our 'nanny state' has taught us how to moan.
There will be boats passing some at early hours and late. It's once every other year - so far - in which lock working efficiency comes to the fore. Genuine problems for others will, I am sure, be few and far between - that much is appreciated by the organisers, and by most who participate. I will not be, it's just not something that attracts me. Though if I were in the vicinity, I would gladly set a lock or three and help them through for the sake of remembering the crews that lived the life, and just a little of what was once the canal's reason for being.
Derek
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I read somewhere that Leslie Morton once said it would be more profitable for Willow Wren to bring the empty boats back from Croxley on a lorry......
(snip)
The same has been said about running light Locomotives over Network Rail's lines - cheaper on a lorry.
He said it frequently, he also used to talk about a scheme where he would hire the boats to the Captains and contract them to take single runs for which they were payed, the boats would then be returned empty to collect the next load, and because the captain was self employed, he was eligible to claim the dole for the week when he had no payed work.I do not know the requirements that needed to be fulfilled at that time, but later in 1980, dole could only be collected after six weeks of unemployment, I neither know if Lesley Morton's comments were tongue in cheek to wind up certain factions, but it does sound like they might have been. The sums may have been done and possibly proven to be more 'economical', but the consequences for crews may not have been seriously considered - even considered at all - does anyone know?
Ask Jackanory?
Derek
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Rose Whitlock, nee Ward, was born to Susan and Michael Ward in 1917 in a rented cottage by the locks at Rickmansworth. Her Father was away in France in charge of food supply barges, and her Mother had taken work at the boat docks at Rickmansworth for the duration. Upon returning, they went back on the boats.
The full story of Rose Whitlock has been published in the Historic Narrow Boat Owners Club Newsletter from issue 2006/2 through to 2007/4 in seven parts, and 'narrated' by Tim Coghlan.
Derek
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Possibly coupled with the likelyhood that carrying on would leave them either outside the dock in 'no man's land', or inside and trapped. Uxbridge has facilities and entertainment close by, and a short morning trip would see them in the dock and available for unloading.
I know when I drove delivery vans, if we finished the round early, we didn't rush back to the depot and get lumbered with 'odd jobs' to keep us busy, the caff was far more inviting!
Derek
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What are the dates for this?
Late October. Contact Tom for exact dates.
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As a matter of interest, how much did the owners pay? and what would a realistic price have been?
I personally do not know the owners nor the price, but the second question may be countered by another - how long is a piece of string? A realistic price may be the most the vendor can get from the buyer - to the vendor. Conversely, the least that can be paid by the buyer. As with any market, a realistic price is one agreed to on both sides. What price? How long is a piece of . . .
It's all relative to what you can afford, what value you place upon the item (an emotive aspect, unless you are a 'dealer'), and of course, what you intend to do with it. A realistic price may be one you can afford, and one which leaves you with enough left over to carry out the required plan. Then when all is done, and the item has reached the desired condition, it either gives immense satisfaction of a plan achieved, or it is sold on, and most likely realise perhaps less than half of that which has been spent on it completing the 'plan'.
The most 'real' factor in the equation, is that at the end of the day, the buyer will be poorer of pocket though hopefully wiser, and possibly without in this case a boat, or - enjoying a euphoric state of mind that exists in dreamers (albeit with the cost of ongoing maintenance and other associated fees).
Long live dreamers. It's just a pity that money gets in the way of the fulfilment for most. Then again, one persons dream may be another persons nightmare, which brings us back to looking at that last picture of what was 'Spitfire'.
Derek
PS Most peoples material dreams when fulfilled are enjoyed by spiders in the main. Mine have been.
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This is your man Casper:
Hi all,Its Tom here again. I would like to announce I am organising a Jam Ole Run 2010. It is going to be the 40th anniversary since the last delivery of coal to the Jam Factory in Southall so I would like to make it the biggest and best one ever. If you are interested, please don't say so on here because I haven't the time to keep checking this site, but if you could please email me on tomben@hotmail.co.uk. There is only space for around 12 - 14 boats due to the queues at locks and there will be plenty of crew needed, so get in touch, NOW!!
Hope to hear from you all soon!
Tom Stewart
Jam Ole Run Organiser
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That would have to go. but i quite like the rest
Well, as you like chocolate, and it looks like a floating Toblerone . . .
Don't be taken in by the "25% discount on licence fees". In his dreams - it's 10%, and proof of a percentage of the boat has to be shown. In which case this one could be debatable.
I've got a chicken run that shape.
Derek
PS Looking at the inside, I'm reminded of an aircraft with a line of paratroopers waiting to drop over Arnhem.
The bottom fell out of that one too.
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I've a great deal of respect for corrugated iron, but getting back to Spitfire - it's as though someone has grafted the bottom part of a Reliant Robin onto an Aston Martin.
I'm sure the owners believe they are doing the best they can with whatever finances are available, but that does not show much respect for either a bit of industrial history or the reason for its original shape. One can either take the view that it has been 'butchered', or saved from a worse fate: sunk; sectioned and scrapped.
Derek
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I think we are all a bit speechless about that sight.
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As a life long motorcyclist - 45yrs+ - twenty eight of which was spent despatch riding, I have a different outlook to motorcycling than most who ride to work or for pleasure at the weekends. It formed a way of life that riding for fun never did. Yet at no time did I consider myself aloof, or better than any others except perhaps in the case of experience - and I was always willing and ready to impart any that I thought might help a lesser experienced person especially when asked.
I am not the easiest person to approach and chat with, but strike the right chord and I don't stop. However, this exchange is becoming like cats spitting, and without noticing, those spitting loudest have not seen the sodding great Rotweiller coming round the corner with H.M. on its collar. With impending financial cuts, Waterways are going to be 'up against it', much like motorcycling is currently.
We are going to need all the collective support there is if our chosen lifestyles are to survive in the face of legislative and financial problems ahead.
Derek
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It is an interesting subject, and I have yet to spy one just like that shown in Banstead. Perhaps Richard might recognise it at Past Times Radio:
http://www.pasttimesradio.co.uk/index.html
I think as Alan implies, many would have jumped on the 'new' transistor radios of the sixties. Prior to that, maybe 'word of mouth' was more reliable than batteries!!
Derek
many thanks for everybody's thoughts,info and quips!The query came about as an idea to embellish a working butty's (=brighton) cabin with an authentic domestic radio of ww2 or a later period up to the effective end of commercial carrying.
It would appear that in the 1930's and through WW2 a few simple battery sets (and maybe crystal sets before that) as used on the bank several or many years before were in use mainly for entertainment purposes at night or possibly at "gatherings". HT voltage (90v?) from a dry battery and LT (2v) from wet cells (accumulators) whenever charging facilities were available on the bank. An example would be the Cossor Melody mMaker or the Osram Music Magnet----.
Perhaps with the advent of 6 or 12v power supplies from the motor of a working pair it is possible that during WW2 ex military "welfare""receivers (which utilised 6 or 12v vibrators for the valve HT supply)were available to working boat people? Examples would be the PCR range or the Hale Electric set--.
However by the early 1950's many civilian portable sets would have became available (Pye, Everv Ready, Cossor etc). These used new technology low voltage 1.4v valve filaments with fairly modest dry battery (LT and HT)requirements and would have served up to the end of commercial carrying in the mid 1960's?
Fianally-the radio shown in Banstead's cabin (Harry Corbett- in The Bargee) is intriguing!Does anyone recognise the make and/or did BW working boats have 230v ac generators in 1960???
thanks to all once again!
L awrie (NBT member)
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Ian is a Nurser, built at Braunston.
Don't know who owns her now but originally built in 1947 by Fellows, Morton and Clayton, at their Uxbridge yard.
I may be wrong but I believe she was the last Uxbridge boat to be built (or was that Clee).
After Nationalisation she was sunk in the Flashes but recovered by Ian Riley and restored, iirc by Malcolm Braine.
She has a Bolinder in the engine room and, yes, she is priceless (or worthless, depending on your viewpoint).
The engine is probably worth 10 times the value of the boat, btw.
Priceless in the eyes of those in love.
My little FMC booklet lists Clent as being built in December 1947, Clee as July 1947. Though there is Cotswold listed but without a date beside it, just a -. Numbered 355 and the comment scrapped, and shows no registration number. Perhaps it never got off the dock complete.
Derek
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And I thought spiders was off topic!
Seem to be in the right place after all . . .
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Compared to the other shot, there's a few ton of something in there.
Derek
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Looking out the window I can see my lawn needs mowing (quite badly), doesn't mean the house is falling down, though
That's a well kept boat ready for a paint job, in my book.
Aah! But if it was growing from your window frames?
That grass is being fed by decomposing timber as well as dust and accumulated wind blown dirt. Still, nothing that cannot be sorted out, but it does need sorting out before another season passes.
Derek
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Spiders never fail to amaze me at their ability to bridge almost impossible places! It (they) must have planted one end on the staging, took a look around, decided on a second point of anchorage, then worked out the direction in which to proceed to reach it without the silk getting stuck or hung up anywhere in between. Absolutely amazing.
Is this off topic? Where am I?
Jam Ole Run 2010
in History & Heritage
Posted
Dave, free speech is alive and well which is why you and I, and many others post here, it's just opinions that might vary. I have not suggested that the locations shown by posters should prevent an opinion being expressed - the shown location may not indicate a persons actual location. There is no canal in St Albans (though it was at one time planned), but the boat is on part of the route much of which I am familiar with. It just seemed that a trio of voices sprang up from apparently far and wide with potential criticism, and I made that observation. Read into it no more than that.
Dressing up often goes with public shows - I spent a glorious Sunday at Quainton - the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre - where there was a steam and historic vehicle event along with the railway stock. Oily boiler suits, greasy waitscoats and caps were to the fore. Army vehicle restorers were there in period uniform, Victorian cyclists etc. likewise, and I'm sure the BCM had its share of red neckerchiefs and Bowler hats of those who wish to 'imagine', and present something from the past for a little more authenticity, even though they may be a bit too clean and inaccurately garbed. But dressing for a recreation of a coal run amongst a comparative few enthusiasts, and at early and late hours - surely the 'dressing up' will be in warm clothing and dry, which is just what people on the boats did when carrying.
To quote myself: -
"There will be boats passing some at early hours and late. It's once every other year - so far - in which lock working efficiency comes to the fore. Genuine problems for others will, I am sure, be few and far between - that much is appreciated by the organisers, and by most who participate. I will not be, it's just not something that attracts me. Though if I were in the vicinity, I would gladly set a lock or three and help them through for the sake of remembering the crews that lived the life, and just a little of what was once the canal's reason for being."
Yes, things move on, but a reminder of the past in more than static exhibits brings history to life and can be a source of enthusiasm for the younger generations as they see and are shown an opportunity for involvement. This is not said with specific reference to the 'jam'ole run', but ex-working boat practices in general with an emphasis on handling and working boats and locks. Some motorcycle clubs have 'gaslight' runs (carbide lamped bikes only), others midnight rambles - for their own pleasure and enlightenment. Hardly public events, but valuable nonetheless.
Some of the earlier recreated runs were crewed by ex-working boatmen, I can imagine a spark of "We'll show 'em" crept in. Whether they held back when passing boats I do not know. But now it is taken up by others. There may be a question over it's relevance, especially as it is not a public spectacle. That in itself may be a reason for its demise, if indeed it does. If I were moored en route and awakened at 4am by engines and paddles, I might think it a gross inconvenience - or, that it's only once every other year, and watch them go by. Alternatively, we could forget all that, and boat when the Sun shines, when the pubs are open (though preferably closed), or just polish and tinker - activities almost as pleasurable as boating to be sure, but how more pleasurable to see things on the move. Should they be denied because of the time of day, or should they be free to boat once every two years in a way that commemorates the last long distance regular traffic - be it in a small convoy, or singly. Four a.m. boating can be a wonderful experience at times.
That said, my wife remembers getting up one morning whilst moored out in the fields on the Macclesfield, stretching and yawning as she sat on the bed edge, only to see a pair of Waterways men poling their work punt slowly and silently by. Never were curtains drawn so fast.
Derek
I'll PM it.
D.