Derek R.
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Posts posted by Derek R.
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Clearly this subject will not be 'going away', and although there is little more to add at this stage, there is an HNBOC member on the BSS advisory committee who is keen to keep an eye on proceedings and present the 'historic' view, attempting to making any recommendations NOT retrospective. So far it appears the 'trade' are not considering the proposals appropriate.
The BSS secretariat (we're all comrades here?) is suggesting that the BSI code will only look forward. I would hesitate to believe that will exempt historic boats. The head can swivel both ways, and it is claimed the BSS will be the ones who decide whether such recommendations will be retrospective or not. We are in 'committee' land - several of them, and there is only thing committees are good at on this level.
"Argiment won't get us there any quicker" said Dad.
"Nor can the perishin 'orse" said Ma.
Derek
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Your welcome, there are some nice shots of Walkers Whaleboats in their book 'Walkers of Ricky' by A.J. Walker.
P108 has an artists sketch (Edward Paget-Tomlinson?) showing side elevation and plan in colour.
P137 has a photo of a Whaleboat on dock with sails up
P237 a photo of staff and Walker family all seated on and standing in what could be one of their Whaleboats, though the event is an outing to Southend and dated June 1952, it could be in their yard before departure.
Derek
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I joined the RN in 1969 and undertook basic training at Torpoint in Cornwall acroos the Tamar from Plymouth.
I remember during this period we were taken "down to the water" and the Creeks where we took out boats as described by Carlt. I remember we put up the sails and it was certainly fun.
I also remeber, probably not the same boats but could be, the engines had "kitchener" gears. I could described them but would get into a right two and eight.
This may supply you with a thought to contact HMS Raliegh and see if they are still around. I would be suprised if they have destroyed them all.
Don't take the p**s if I am completly wrong.
Martyn
'Kitchen' rudder on Wikipedia is this it?
'Whaleboat' also Wikipedia
Nice model, good two foot six long - might be a cheaper project. (ducks!)
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Bob - Jills younger brother. I don't know why I will have to ask (but she probably won't remember!)
Aah! Didn't know the brother. That's how I remember them, very smart.
Derek
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I think the name of the other "scratch-built Ken Keay leisure boat" is LINGUIST, built 1971.
I believe another Keay's boat worthy of mention is the KEN KEAY which was started by Keay's but completed by Dennis Cooper, Norton Canes. I also recall THE HILTON (tied on lower Staffs & Worc's during early 1980's) and the H.F. TRUMAN which was used as a hire cruiser during the early 1980's, latterly for Associated Cruisers, Wolverhampton (along with USK)
Welcome to the chatterbox Pete, or should that be 'thunderbox'!
Nice to hear from you.
Derek
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Bob
Bob? Bloke On Board? Who Bob? Why snubber - Bob getting steering practice?
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Looks like Jill and Dave Humphries on Badsey leaving the Riser, and more than likely Barnes about to be pulled out steered by ??
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'Scuse me for nosing in, but the alternator should have a fan built in (if it's like any automotive alternator), it draws air through whilst running. Surely all you need do is supply an aperture to feed air to the alternator?
Derek
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Yes that is impressive, I have actually seen a couple like that over the years, and as almost the only boats I see on chocks are in Roger Farringdon's shed, they must either have been ones that he was repairing or building. I will be on the lookout in future.
On a separate note, a swim shape like that must make the back cabin very cramped below the Uxter plate. My boat has very long tapered swims, but even without the steep tumblehome things are a bit tight.
Here's a look on the inside. Not such a common shot as all is mostly covered in woodwork. As you can see, most of the curved sections are beneath floor level (just above prop-shaft), so the reduction in space only affects down there. But then - the more space you have - the more tat that gets collected!
This is Yarwoods Josher Adder being worked on in '85/'86:
The swim at the chine will start half way along the engine room, whereas at uxter plate level it will start farther back.
Have a look at Matts Sickle website in the restoration section to see more Yarwoods work on swims.
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Well, I think some people make up their own ideas about what a "true" Josher is, some of which might be a bit pedantic.
As it is generally accepted that the name is an aberration of the name Joshua Fellows, and as the company known as FMC demanded boats with fine lines, any boat yard that fulfilled these requirements and built boats for FMC became known as Joshers. If some say a 'true' Josher was only built BY FMC at Uxbridge, Saltley, or Toll End - what does that make all the other boats built for FMC at Sephtons, Braithwaite and Kirk, Harris, Costin's, Nurser's, Lees & Atkins, A.J. Ashm or the five wide boats built by Rudkins - all built FOR FMC? (Though Ash was a Director, and built at Uxbridge dock). Surely you can have a boat built FOR Fellows specific use and requirements and have it be a Josher, without the specific need for it to have been built BY Fellows at one of their own docks, or for that matter at ONE specific dock.
Honda make cars in Japan, they are also built in England. They are all Hondas.
Having said that, a compromise might be to say: "that's a Yarwood's Josher" or a "Braithwaite Josher", and perhaps some do - I certainly did - and when tied up at Banbury with Yarmouth in '83, we were spoken to by an elderly couple on the towpath who had no hesitation about recognising a 'Josher'! "Used to work them we did". As a loose generalisation, any boat built for Fellows might well be called a 'Josher'.
What we can say without any argument (though some might due to it being post 1948!) is that there were no more Joshers built after Gorse in '51. So perhaps the last XX Josher was built up to the companies dissolution in '48. After which came look-a-likes, replicas, and stylising.
Good 'ere innit.
Edit: And bu**er boatperson and all that politically correct cr*p - boatmen and boatwomen is (are) correct!
Derek
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If it is a Yarwoods then it is not a Josher!
Beg to differ. Alan Faulkner's 'FMC' lists 62 Motors built by Yarwoods for FMC, 44 of them being fitted out at Saltley or Uxbridge.
Python was built at Yarwoods and fitted out at Uxbridge - a Josher.
Derek
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Now shortened to about 55ft and available for heritage "lease" by BW. Is/was based around Little Venice and has taked part in the Cavalcade.
Python piccy (scroll to bottom of page.
Paul H
PS Why do I wish canals were as sordid as they used to be?
Thanks Paul, glad to see it has survived. Looks like the engine has been put in the back cabin. Still beautiful lines though. What future now with BW chopping their own legs off? Waterways heritage lease - sounds iffy.
The 'historic' side of industrial waterways has rapidly been demolished for theme park attractiveness - but for who? Those who come to admire spend little enough on the 'improved' attraction, and probably would be the same people who would have chucked their old washing machine and garden waste in if it had been left as before. The new 'loft livers' in their chic 'warehouse like' apartment may like the pretty coloured boats, but not the pretty coloured chimney smoke. You are not alone in your thoughts.
Derek
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Hear Hear.
Another abused term is "restoration".
Reminds me of a trip we had on the River Cher in France. Tannoy voice recommends viewing the "restored" 19/18C lock cottage.
What we were looking at was possible the fabric of an old building completely rendered with modern materials and whitewashed.
Out of character windows and door, could have been breeze blocks rendered and built yesterday. The lock wasn't much better - fully electronic. Took twenty five minutes to pass through.
Derek
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I hope Alan won't mind me adding a couple of 'Oldies' to his collection. I have had these sitting on hold for several months now while I attempted to gain permission to copy. The scenes are from a 24 part fortnightly publication by the Amalgamated Press (1922) entitled "Wonderful London". It covered a wide variety of subjects, and in issue 12 there is a section "London's Lesser Waterways" by Ladbroke Black (a pseudonym no doubt). The Amalgamated Press became part of the East Midlands Allied Press, which in turn disappeared into the I.P.C. After several attempts to raise awareness at Kings Reach Tower of this publication over weeks of being passed from pillar to post while they denied any knowledge, I gave up. As the published pictures are in excess of eighty years old (I believe seventy is the limit on copyright), I'll put them up.
As the 'Wonderful London' publication came out in 1926, these pictures will date from shortly before that year.
This is a place I knew well in the mid sixties as I spent some time as a Zoo keeper on the Cotton Terraces that front the canal.
I suspect this is the bridge at the end of the Zoo grounds, and Macclesfield Bridge, otherwise known as 'Blow Up' bridge is just out of sight at the curve in the distance. This shot is different today, mainly because the bridge is divided down the middle with high railings as one crosses. Entrance paying public on the Zoo side, outside public crossing to Regents Park proper from Prince Albert Road on the other.
The articles on the right hand bank may well be the terraced seedling beds of the Zoological Societies Gardens department which were at one time established at that point. During my days there, the towpath was unavailable to the public, and I recall a locked gate beneath the bridge to deter Zoo entrance fee dodgers. The canal through the Zoo was a secretive place, where trees in full leaf almost touched across the water.
I have no idea where this one is, possibly Victoria Park. Looks like 'Sunday Best' is in view. Is this petrified spearfishing?
Edit: I do wonder if this was the beginning of Cumberland Basin we see here. The banks rise up, and it appears to curve gently to the right which would be about right. But unsure.
And this could be any dock - Brentford; Limehouse - boatmen or dockers, but a lovely study.
Derek
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I have to disagree with Derek about the naming of the first three locks. The top locks are Hampstead Road Locks and I have never heard the flight referred to as the Hampstead three. Camden Lock is not a canal lock, but the name of the adjacent market site. It has never been the name of the locks, despite many people believing this to be so. I worked for Northside Developments (they own London Waterbus Co) and they told me they picked the name for their site (formerly Dingwalls Wharf, indeed 'Purfleet Wharf' if you refer back to an original Regent's Canal Co promotional booklet) simply because it was in Camden, and next to a lock. The site has since become better known than the locks. The second pair of locks are Hawley, the third Kentish Town.
Steve
Yes, in hindsight I was taking the name from a Nicholson's without detailed local knowledge so I defer to Steve's. I 'wrote' in "Hampstead three" in my Nicholson's, and I recall it was after I read Kit Gayford's 'names' for locks that I did so. It's in the first page of the appendix in 'Amateur Boatwomen', though written "Hampstead Rd. 3". Surely the trendy new market would have taken its name from the juxtaposition of the lock by Camden High Street, than the lock taking the name from the market? However, Hampstead Road Locks sounds a more likely term to have been used in everyday parliance when the area was warehousing and goods yards. Steve's point is more valid.
My sister and brother-in-law lived in Fitzroy Road for several years, and despite many visits by bus - passing the Aerated Bread Company always with the wonderful smell of fresh baked bread (ABC Bakers were well known in North London) - I never knew the existence of the canal so close by. If we went by bus the top deck was favoured, but we would have been getting off by the Mother Redcap, so would probably have been descending the stairs where Camden Road crosses the cut by the bakery. That would have been from '52 to '60 (I was 5yrs old in '52), imagine if I had taken rolls of pictures of the goods yards and interchange depot in full swing along with the canal - if only! But in ignorance . . . and without camera at that age . . .
Derek
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Josher, the most abused term on the cut?
Please discuss.
Ttp
MC
In what context - old boats, new replicas, why Josher, abused in what way and by whom?
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Python.
Paul H
Aaaaah - relief!
Thank you gents.
Edit: Hmmm - built of "coppered" steel - Yarwoods, fitted out at Uxbridge.
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Possibly opposite Wenlock Basin ?
Note the stunning positioning of the bollards, and hence where the mooring lines end up!
Warbler was one of the 'Jam 'Ole' recreation boats.
I wonder if the bollards weren't set back so as not to interfere with any horse drawn lighter traffic
But the name on that motor is driving me insane - what is it?
It's possibly composite, looks like a Josher, and I'm seeing six letters unless one or more are missing. KETINS - CETIUS - CYPRESS??? None of those? At least not the first two.
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Hampstead Road Locks (Camden Lock ? – I never really know what to call the top lock, rather than the flight – anybody ?)
The "Mangle" presumably an exhibit at Hampstead Road.
It appears to be a restored non functioning display, but what was it originally ?
Hawley Locks (I hope!)
Kentish Town Locks
The three are collectively known as Hampstead Road locks, or the 'Hampstead three'. The little dock above the top lock is Dingwall's wharf - but that's in the Nicholsons. The top is Camden Lock, middle is Hawley, and the bottom Kentish Town - plural as they are (were) doubled. Not sure why they called them 'Hampstead Road', as Hampstead Road is at the southern end of Camden High Street and extends down to Euston Road. The road Leading up to Hampstead from the canal is Chalk Farm Rd. leading on to Haverstock hill and Rosslyn Hill, though when the canal was built, it may well have been called Hampstead Road, Camden High Street and the others being of later date. Old Map website has it as Chalk Farm Road in 1875.
I would hazard a guess at the 'Mangle' being a winch, was possibly from a crane, or maybe to pull a drawbridge across the end of the dock, of which there were three facing Dingwall's across the cut above Camden.
Very nice pictures Alan, compare with TODAY.
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Excellent, thanks for sharing Alan. It's quite impressive to see most of the buildings still standing in the manner in which they were built. Not attractive maybe, but unsullied with the detritus of mismatched windows and doors, and spray can culture. This was industry in the raw, all we have now is yuppie accommodation and cycle paths with water feature. Needless to say, it could not have survived as it was through to this day. Nice reminders.
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Probably Stockers - with lots of props. Near Denham for the studios and Rank labs.
One of the Black Beauty series was shot around Stockers farm. The comparatively closed in environment and lack of power cables in the immediate vicinity makes it attractive for period dramas.
Having said that I have seen the open closed plate on the side of the box somewhere but cant remember where.Ooh! I know, there was a Condor adv . . . .
Ow!
Some amazing stuff in studio props stores.
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I resent being accused of trolling on an Internet forum!
But yes, Green Line, (was it 706 / 707 ??), or 301 Bus both equally likely.
Some strange things got carried in the name of canalling!
Ah! Yes - forgot the alternative use of that word! The first Mrs. Reynolds used that word as a description of to-ing and fro-ing, think it was a hang over from those days. Very mini skirts, Bibas, and legs!
Don't remember any outboards or boat shafts being fetched on board though. It would have been 706 during those years, the 707 had been withdrawn in February 1969, and the 706 went half hourly to compensate. Oh lore - don't start me on buses . . .
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If Alan was trolling to and from Aylesbury from Cow Roast by Green Line, or even 301, there's a good chance I might have driven him to it . . .
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Another government building, then.
It was not HBOS when built, Equitable Life - that was it! Thank you.
Opel Record C Coupe! That must be the one - Thanks Neil.
Derek
Old family pictures
in History & Heritage
Posted
The shot in the cutting is reproduced in the magazine 'Narrow Boat' Winter 2007/8, in the article by Tom Foxon entitled 'Breaking the ice', and is credited to the Colin Such collection. The picture is stated to be on the Oxford Canal near Rugby. Six lines and at least fifteen horses involved there, sometimes they used as many as twenty, but if the ice was thick enough and too much horse power applied, the boat would be dragged along the surface only. Hard, and hot work, but also good fun.
That's me in the white breechs.
(only kidding)
Derek