Derek R.
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Posts posted by Derek R.
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So which Adder is this?
In the ownership of Barry Whitehead of Bingley, and at Braunston in 1985/6 awaiting further work.
Barry had it for several years, but may have sold it during the nineties. it had a conversion on, and when we passed him sometime around 1989ish at Weedon, it was running with a Bolinder that seemed to race a bit. Think it was still called Adder when at Weedon.
From my own picture collection. It was from the cabin dimensions of Adder that Yarmouth's cabin was constructed.
Derek
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Hi Grahoom
My little lads your age
Again at your age you know nothing but metric and Europe so just sit back and observe..........Oh and as for grammme, Gramma, graimaa or whatever, you will later realise on a scale of one to ten of importance in todays world it does not even make it to first base Uuh? Yo - know wot I mean - right? Laters. txt spd spk mtts mor. N tm 4 mor
Take the centres of words out, and the vast majority of people will still be able to 'read' the whole word if the beginning, ending, or a vital consonant is present. But that does require familiarity with the whole word as originally spoken or spelt, hence the need for a comprehensive understanding of the English language from the start. Imagine any one of us trying to understand a foreign language written so, or in text speak - barely possible, because we would not know the construction of the original word let alone its meaning.
Grammatical mistakes can be made by anyone, and most people do make them. It is a sad fact of life that current educational standards in some ways have fallen to the point where many school leavers struggle to either spell correctly, or construct sentences correctly - the evidence of this can be seen even in official documentation - from local government departments through to the top, and 'Waterways' are not unknown for it.
As children I'm sure most of us have attempted to construct their own 'language', often by taking the last part of a word and placing it at the front, and adding an extra vowel at the end - or even speaking the words backwards (much harder). It's all part of growing up and wanting to stand out from the crowd. The need to 'be different' - to be recognised from all those who went before, and ironically as such, they are all the same. Ultimately, a standard is needed for language simply so that we can communicate accurately and concisely when needed. Bad grammar leads to misunderstandings, and bad spelling leads to distraction and confusion. It is indeed a sign of the present times that these basic items are taken as being just too inconvenient to be bothered with.
In the end it is down to each and every one of us as individuals, to set standards that might be copied through respect. How many books would you want to pursue in reading, if one word in ten was mis-spelt, or the grammar led you to believe one thing when the author meant another? If it were a technical manual, everything might rest upon the accuracy of the written word to complete a vital task. Legal documents on the other hand, and Bills before parliament go too far the other way - and the lay-man cannot understand even one sentence as it is referenced to previous paragraphs, sub-paragraphs, and clauses - and often cross referenced with other Acts - a nightmare!
One of the fatal flaws amongst the older generation, is to belittle younger people with the "When I were a lad" etc. We can all do it - young people of today will do it in years to come - it's guaranteed to cause rejection or defensive replies, as it is seen as an attack and disrespectful to an age group that seeks more than anything else to make their mark and gain respected. Respect is gained through empathy, understanding, and encouragement.
Kick the dog, and it will fear you, and maybe bite back. Talk to it quietly at its level, begin to understand 'its' language, and it will see you as a guide and leader. Pander to it, and patronise it, and 'it' will dominate you.
Derek
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Surely it was the Italians as in the romans who settled on the foot and the mile to start with. Then after thousands of years of one system the revolting French invented the metre - carefully tailored to make conversion difficult from feet to metres. Obviously over the years the foot has got bigger as mine are 13 inches!
Yep! They gave us the Libre Soldat and Dinarii too. £.s.d. "Three penn'oth of chips please . ." That was a handful too.
Blame Napoleon's short legs for the metre. Another interfering git.
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I have a problem with the motor bike I am currently restoring because no-one now makes the 3.5inch x 15 inch tyres to replace the originals of that size made by Pirelli in Italy which were fitted to it's 15 inch rims when it was built by MV Agusta in Italy in 1953. To get round this problem I have to buy some new 2.5 inch x16 inch rims from the factory in Italy which is the only place that makes them.
Reading the thread title I keep thinking I should take my shoes and socks off to check if mine are likely to be compliant.
The Italian Inch! Probably running on Dunlop rims. My 250cc (metric) Ducati also runs on 18 inch rims. Seems like the Italians had no trouble with Imperial measurements then!
Derek
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Well at school I was taught metric, but I'm with you all the way!!
I'm sure it will happen!!! http://www.ahajokes.com/eng011.html
Aaah! No wonder I am having trouble understanding - steam boat on the Rhine - Deutschland uber alles. That rings a bell.
To quote my own first paragraph:-
"It could possibly be said that some people were dragged kicking and screaming into each new century as it arrived, or with each passing of yet another piece of legislation written. The following touches on politics, and as such may taste bitter to many, but with an ever increasing sense of being 'had' by the EU politically and legally on a wide range of matters, the British ( a collection of many nationalities as long as mankind had tramped the land bridge from the rest of Eurasia or learned to float in a boat ) are well on their way to becoming bar-coded and microchipped units as the EU harmonising culture machine steps up another notch."
Paranoid? Obsessed? No, just aware.
I do not know why Daniel (entry to University I thought required some basic language skills. Clearly I am mistaken) has taken a confrontational line to an issue of length. That particular issue was one of BW converting an Imperial measurement into metric - inaccurately, perhaps a result of university education.
Whether we are part of Europe may be considered in part a geographical situation, and in part a political one. If taken as geographical, we are indeed an Island race and separate from mainland Europe, but as stated in my quote above, we are as a people a wide mixture from many places. But that was long ago. Those who now consider themselves to be part of the indigenous population have - or should I say had - become proud to stand up for ways that developed in a different vein to those across the water on mainland Europe. A great many of those emigrants who made up the British did so because they were escaping regimes that persecuted them. Two World Wars were fought defending against invasion, and for the rights of other European countries already invaded. The third has been won through politics - but a great many have seen it as a necessary step to an integrated Europe - politically - the very thing those horrendous two World Wars were struggling against. Those desiring power have put down the gun, and now use the pen - under a 'marketing' strategy.
I have never had any problems working with metric measurements, they were on my school ruler in the fifties. We measured the capacity of an internal combustion engine always in cubic centimetres, and litres. I do not have a problem with using metric. What I do have a problem with is the insistence that Imperial measurements should be banned. Why? Don't you have a calculator that is capable of almost instantaneously making the conversion available? Do not computers make currency exchanges equally instantaneous? No, the push for Britain to be 'homogenised' for the betterment of all, is a call from a party that requires all to be dominated by that one party - strength in unity - another dictatorial expression. The very fact that world currencies fluctuate in value against one another provides at times opportunities to market advantageously - both in goods and in currencies. Combining in one European currency reduces those opportunities.
If people do not like the existence of Imperial measures - then use metric. But why deny its right to exist alongside metric? Metric was never denied existence alongside Imperial.
Why is it that so many get so strung up about getting rid of the inch, foot Yard, mile and all the rest? What's their problem? Like Daniel suggests - Get over it - unless you have an ulterior motive, in which case you never will.
Derek
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Dyslexia?
Does Dyslexia stop you using a spell checker? Sorry if it upsets Daniel, but if it was written in haste - slow down!
Derek
SOLD!!! Note: This constitutes a written and legally binding contract
It might just - I'll be round for the £74,000 tomorrow. Edit: Used notes please - real legal tender ones mind.
(snipped)Yes if in the conversion they have grossly rounded the figure up to there benifit then i would condsider that is out of order and misleading of them. However. Half an inch? Get over it!
Daniel
But Koukouvagia makes the point - If that half an inch puts you into a higher category for licencing, it's not something you can get over, because they've had one over on you. No way Jose! As it happens with my boat it's still within the same category, but who is to say that will not change at sometime in the future? Paying enough as it is.
Derek
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As Ian says, ultimatly, the only slight sadness is the accracy to which the conversion was origanally done prehaps. But at the same time, which yesterday the challenge was to measure a boths width toa 1/16th of an inch. Today i challenge you to accutratly and repeatably measure your boats lenght to within half an inch. Or as i call it, just under 12mm!
Daniel
I must have missed yesterdays challenge then. But why would I want to measure my boat? It is recorded as being 45' as far back as 1942, which I accept without tape, or laser. What I cannot accept is an error in converting 45' into metric - there is no need for that.
Such inaccuracies apart, there is no valid reason why an age old Imperial measure, which I for one was taught in school without the 'benefit' of needing to learn metric, cannot be put alongside a metric equivalent. And if the invoice for licence fees can itemise the discounts as applicable, so too can the renewal notice. No excuse why not, as there is no excuse for poor spelling.
Derek
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It's an awful expensive extra 5ft (edit - sorry that should be 1.524 metres!!) you have to pay for Derek!
Boat For Sale. Includes expensive five foot bit.
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It could possibly be said that some people were dragged kicking and screaming into each new century as it arrived, or with each passing of yet another piece of legislation written. The following touches on politics, and as such may taste bitter to many, but with an ever increasing sense of being 'had' by the EU politically and legally on a wide range of matters, the British ( a collection of many nationalities as long as mankind had tramped the land bridge from the rest of Eurasia or learned to float in a boat ) are well on their way to becoming bar-coded and microchipped units as the EU harmonising culture machine steps up another notch.
I find it all more than a little depressing that the public at large have shown a degree of apathy towards the future, though there will be some that are up for embracing it - but do we really have a say? I doubt it - hence the apathy. And I also sense that some will resent this topic being presented here, but as enthusiasts for our industrial past and temporary keepers of some of its hardware, do we take everything that gets lobbed at us lying down?
Some recent communications - for your information - which all started with why my boat was lengthened a quarter of an inch by BW's calculator; why it wasn't shown in 'feet'; and why wasn't the notice for renewal of licence showing the available discounts.
Prepare to be bored, incensed, or indifferent, but there are times when keeping things bottled up does no-one any good.
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I have been in contact with Jenny Whitehall of BW about the following points; our craft are no longer defined in Imperial measurements; their conversion of Imperial to metric was not accurate (mine wasn't); and why the breakdown of licence fees, discounts etc., - which appear on the receipt for payment - do not appear on the notice to pay. Miss/Mrs. Whitehall's reply was to correct the innacuracy on my boats length, excuse the lack of breakdown of licence fees on the notice to pay as a software incompatibility, and that the Units of Measurement Regulations 1995 require them:- ". . to display all such measurements as metric measurements. Our system is therefore not set up for imperial measurements so it is not possible to add this alongside the metric measurements." I have looked at the regulations and nowhere does it say Imperial may not be displayed alongside metric. It would therefore appear that 'their system' is in line with creating a European common identity culture. We are being assimilated sociologically into the dominant EU society. The passage of this assimilation is made all the easier with a higher percentage of foreign immigrants than has prevailed historically (within the last ten generations), and the eradication of Imperial measurements, as was the norm taught in schools, in todays metric only curriculum. On the legality of claiming that the Imperial system should remain and the metric be shown as an equivalent, the campigner is on shakey ground - our chain of former Prime Ministers have seen to that, although they themselves from Edward heath on, have most possibly been acting under orders. If anyone has an interest in a highly respected legal opinion - and it is just an opinion - there are five pages available through this link: http://www.silentmajority.co.uk/eurorealis...ghts/index.html Brian Parkin I have little knowledge of, but runs a website at http://home.clara.net/brianp/links.html 'English Weights and Measures'. This is more a historical record and source for students than any campaign site to prevent the loss of an existing, and widely regarded Imperial system, but in asking Brian his thoughts on the possible legality of removing Imperial, he had this to say (though for my own opinion - the future for Imperial looks bleak - the future is metric - but in my head it will not be. Do you know it now costs just over seven shillings and sixpence to send a letter first class?) however, from Brain Parkin :-
----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Parkin To: 'Derek Reynolds' Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 8:35 PM Subject: RE: Illegal in feet - true or false?
British Waterways are offering a commercial service, which they choose to do in metric measurements only. There is no compulsion in law to offer this service in other measurements. There may or may not be law stopping them offering it in feet & inches.
As I understand (and judges implement) the law, any regulation coming from the EU is now part of our law - this is a consequence of the European Communities Act 1972. This cannot be overruled even by a subsequent act of parliament (which is why the 'metric martyrs' were successfully prosecuted despite an act of parliament giving them permission to do what they were doing). If British Waterways are implementing or interpreting an EU regulation then it has the force of law.
If you want to take it further, you would probably have to prove that British Waterways are supressing your culture, in contravention of the EU constitution (article 151 of the Maastrict treaty, I think). This would be illegal. I wouldn't get your hopes up though - the EU's idea of diversity of culture is bound up with 'creating a common European identity'.
Good luck,
Brian
IMPORTANT NOTE: None of the above constitutes legal advice, which I am unqualified to give. I advise you to contact a solicitor.
----- Original Message -----From:To:Sent:Saturday, March 07, 2009 3:56 PMSubject:Illegal in feet - true or false?Dear Brian, I am in communication with the authortiy that issues licences to canal craft, an historic example of which I own. Their most recent renewal form has had the length - historically always in feet - removed and metric only is evident. My 45ft craft is now to be recognised as 13.716m. On commenting that it would be preferrable if the Imperial measurement remained, I have been sent a reply from which I quote:-"I do have a lot of sympathy with your views but unfortunately British Waterways has to comply with The Units of Measurement Regulations 1995 which requires us to display all such measurements as metric measurements. Our system is therefore not set up for imperial measurements so it is not possible to add this alongside the metric measurements."On reading the respective regulations, and other websites involved in the retention of Imperial alongside metric, I am left completely uncertain about the situation as it stands. On the one hand there is supposedly legislation in the form of SI 2001 No.55 which has the four words "until 31 December 2009" inserted with regard to Imperial measurements being legally displayed alongside metric after which Imperial shown at all will be illegal. Yet there has been in the media more recently - Nov/Dec 2008 - word that Britain can keep the Pound, the Pint - and the Foot? The Barrister Michael Shrimpton's further opinion notes are dated Jan 2000. Are they affected by SI 2001 No.55? I would like to find some solid evidence in legal terms that British Waterways do not have to remove measurements in feet and inches against their claim they are following the 1995 regulations. Can you advise please? Many thanks - Derek Reynolds, address removed as advised. -
I think the plans were for residential apartments and the like, with a footbridge across the canal below the lock about where Alan's boat is.
More likely the financial woes affecting the building industry is the culprit.
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Double egg.
And how many rashers would you like Sir?
Sentinel, (next the bank - don't know what that other thing is) amongst five built in the seventies, now 70'. Was used to carry barrels I believe to 'The Steamboat' pub.
And No - not a 'Josher'.
She was out the water at Cassio over Easter for a blacking - and me without the camera.
Derek
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Oh how I lust after some Croxley rag
Anybody got any I've now run out after 20 years and using old courdrey trousers.
So if I put my forty year old Enfield Borough Council issue Donkey Jacket (real leather trim) up on Ebay - you'll all be outbidding each other - right?
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Thanks for those images. Very interesting.
I can see the basic idea, but it looks a very unwieldy piece of kit. Can anyone describe how it would have been used?
If you have a copy of 'Painted Boats' there is a sequence of a spoon dredger being used near the end - 41minutes in on my counter.
Basically, there were two winches. One was to pull the dredger along the cut inch by inch from a wire to the bank and worked by one man; two others on the winch that lifted the spoon which would be swung out to the side and lowered into the cut, and the fourth man handled the spoon by means of a large 'T' bar at the end of the spoon shaft. He would be the one slipping and sliding on the dredgings and once a spoonful had been lifted by the other two - pushing the loaded spoon from the cabin top and onto the boards to pivot the crane so as to tip the dredgings into the boat by tipping the spoon using the 'T' bar. It must have been back breaking work with everyone getting soaked, and the amount dredged comparatively small - but nonetheless necessary - in the course of a day. Graft, as it used to be before hydraulics and engines.
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(snip)
Do all these old working boats have speed wheels
Pete Boatboss
Most do. Some had single levers, but the possibility of moving them unintentionally when moving in and out the hatches may have caused a wheel to be a better choice. Instead your jacket just gets hooked up and you end up doing a Chuckle Brothers sketch. (I was going to say Mr Pastry sketch, but who remembers Richard Hearne? Or Freddie Frinton? http://tinyurl.com/cmq7g2 )
Derek
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Bump
The deadline for comment on the BS website is 30 April. I have added some comments, which a little to my surprise got through the moderators but it is disappointing how few comments there are, these ideas will affect new build and ultimately all craft not just historic craft so come on you guys post some appropriate comments on the BS website about their dafter proposals, you never know it may have some influence and far better to try now whilst it is not yet set in stone!
A timely reminder. Also bumped elsewhere.
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Did anyone spot the brand spanking new and very shiny porthole on Ray? Or was that a photoshop special . . .
PS Thanks for the pictures Leo - very evocative. Which motor is that the remains of - on the barrels?
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If you click on "view full size image", you will get more info. In this case Troy cut.
Looking at those images I'm reminded of Kensal Green Cemetery.
Rust (Rot) In Peace. There's an almost tranquil air to them. Their lifes work done. No more the bottoms to scrape, gates to bump, at rest. Nature creeping, and reclaiming her raw materials.
Violins please . . .
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Oh ye I remember the boxer now. I was terrified of it as a child! So who had the old english sheep dog - or did i dream that?
Sounds like you've been watching paint adverts. Do you remember the Labrador pup who ran around with a bit of paper . . . ?
Seriously - Can't remember an OES, though there might have been. German Shepherds seem to be a favourite for a while. Val and Tony had a few (one particularly nasty one that didn't last long), Vic Harman had one (or maybe two), Roger and Fran, and a couple more would arrive when Comet called in. John had Domino Terrier cross, we had Bert and Elsa - Terrier X & Bull Mastiff X, and Trevor had a little black thing. There was another that used to fight everything on legs - seem to remember it was locked in mortal combat once with something, and the pair got chucked in the basin - they carried on fighting under water. Sue brought along her two Border Collies - pups then. But Peggy and Bosun were the real characters. They were very similar in some ways - stood no nonsense and spoke their minds. Peter was lovely too, quiet and exact in his work with a dry wit, a good mechaninc/engineer. There was also any number that walked theirs along the towpath toilet too - non-boaters that is.
There's a story in a book I recently read (forgot which one - situation normal) it was at Sutton's I think. Kids are chucking sticks in for the dog to jump in and fetch out. Then a little girl fell in off a counter. Dog jumps in and fetches her out - just another stick, but saved her.
Sorry Andy - we've drifted a bit! The issue over asbestos might well give you an advantage. I've handled it lots of times, just need to be careful especially when cutting and drilling, but effin safety throw a wobbly if it's half a mile away.
Derek
PS I wonder if Beryl had an OES? Poyle that is.
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I remeber Peggy. Didn't she have an old english sheep dog? And Fran (with another dog, small brown and tan thing).
Gwen and Earnie too. Their boat was up for sale again recently.
The main thing I remember about Aylesbury was lying on the roof of the boat at night and watching the planes lights going overhead. Funny what little things you remember.
Ah! - The Peggy and Peter's dog was a Boxer called 'Bosun' (at least I think it was called Bosun?). Can't remember Roger and Fran's.
Went buttying to Chester with the 'Gwernies'. I remember hanging off a plank at water level, cutting bits of rope off his prop at the BCM. It's strange, but I can't remember the name of their boat - spot it a mile off though.
The BCN Society have a workboat on the BW style, commissioned and built for them though it's not ex-BW. Line drawing and story here:
http://www.bcn-society.co.uk/workboat.php Dave Moore painted it up, and they scratch it off with mud and shopping trolleys
Well, it is a work boat!Derek
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It was a wooden construction and was towed by Willy No Name (the first I think). It eventually rotted out and ACS replaced it with a steel version. The steel version was towed from Roger Farringtons by a memeber with a Josher who reported that it spent most of the trip from Braunston under water, emerging every time he slowed down. I have towed both the original plywood version and the steel copy and neither could be described as a swimmer. The steel version is still in Aylesbury and is very useful for those offside jobs.
N
'Willy No Name' - that was it!! Some characters down the arm. I remember Peter and Peggy fondly. And Bill Snowdon and Fred are still around, steer Pacific a lot now.
Thanks for the reminder.
Derek
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Some-one else was asking similar questions not so long ago. It may seem strange to view them as future historic craft, but then it's only a matter of time.
Other than that, there is something to be said in favour of hull shapes that are sympathetic to hydrodynamics as older built craft were, when such things mattered, there was a pride in craftsmanship, and labour was comparatively cheap. A great hunk of ramp ended steel box is a bit challenging aesthetically. I hear they sink quite well.
Suggest you try the individual BW section offices for more detail.
There was a chap Aylesbury way back in the eighties that used a ramp ended punt to load his little Citroen on. Used to tow it around when boating. It ended up as the ACS work punt, though it may not have been ex-BW.
Derek
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Any of mine you want go for it.
Yep - likewise.
Derek
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Spider - what a little cracker. What engine has it got Mark?
We had a chap stop by Cassio for a while many years back, with a little wooden motor sailer (clinker or carvel I can't remember) called 'The Lady Tilly'. Less than 25' in length, all white, with a small transom stern, and a Stuart Turner under a box. Going into the cabin was bliss, all the feel of a wooden boat - warm, soft comforting sounds, and a lovely smell - bit of Stockholm tar probably. Reminds me of pleasurable reading in Maurice Griffiths books in which he introduces the reader to the quiet creeks and mud banks of the East Coast - 'The Magic of the Swatchways'. Still captivates, though I'm no salt.
Derek
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(snip)
It seems ironic that the HNBOC trophy, for best wooden boat restoration, is the "Ken Keay Award" yet there is no will to restore his boats.
(snip)
Wooden boat builders and repairers are somewhat similar to undertakers - there'll always be work for them. The big difference is that with boats, it's often not a lack of will-power, it's a lack of money, and as we well know a wooden boat is an ongoing restoration job - far more so than a metal one. Stop fixing something for a year - and it's all downhill from there and often rapidly.
When Tycho (all steel) was built its expectation of life was 25 years. It's still here and afloat (last time I looked) 72 years later and mostly original.
What was the expectation of life of a wooden narrowboat spending its life working? Five - ten years?
Wooden boats have an affinity to water that other materials do not have, they swim differently, sound different, feel different, and they represent an historic skill. But The only wooden boat I have is sitting on the sideboard. It'll last quite a while on there.
This isn't to say they should all be broken up and burnt, but a simple point that if you want a wooden narrowboat to last - you will have to have very deep pockets with plenty in them, and reach in regularly.
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Now I'm not taking the Michael -
Here's one of a sympathetic material to wood - cardboard. How long would it last in water?
Can I move to make a 'Corrugated' award for the best cardboard boat?
Again at your age you know nothing but metric and Europe so just sit back and observe..........Oh and as for grammme, Gramma, graimaa or whatever, you will later realise on a scale of one to ten of importance in todays world it does not even make it to first base 
Some historical questions
in History & Heritage
Posted
Mostly fact, with a little calculated guesswork:
The whole of Blisworth tunnel was lined up from the tower of St. Mary's Church at Stoke Bruerne from where the entire line can be viewed. As the point of view from that tower was the highest point above the line of the tunnel, a telescope and theodolite would then be used to ascertain the various heights above water level. All this would have been plotted onto a longitudinal cross section drawing, and once chosen, the various sites for digging vertical shafts would have begun - 19 for Blisworth. Once at datum level for the tunnel floor, horizontal excavation began using possibly the 'planks', and a length of hose pipe with glass tubes at each end and a mark to keep 'level'. The tube would have sufficient water in it, so that when both ends were held vertically - any distance apart - the water would show at the mark when both glasses were at equal levels - a long flexible spirit level in fact. The problem with a plank might be it's limited length before bending under its own weight. With a water tube, the distance apart was only governed by the length of the pipe. Its accuracy was greater.
As regards supplying fresh air; I have not read of any apparatus that was actually used, but if necessary a bellows pump may have been manned either at surface level, or once gained, tunnel level. Other than that, it would be by natural convection.
Why black and white? A smart appearance shows pride and efficiency, black and white stand out - 'look at me, I'm an engineering feature!' Or if black tar paint was used for preservation, you wouldn't want that soiling your clothes when opening gates - so along came white. Don't know really, just some ideas. And if someone had ordered a big batch of wrong colour, quite likely to use it to get a job done than cart it all back.
Derek