Phoenix_V
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Posts posted by Phoenix_V
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4 minutes ago, David Mack said:
Which leads to an anomaly that if you have 240V wiring on the boat, the fixed wiring has to be multi-stranded and with a ferrule on the end of wires clamped under screw terminals in the socket, but you can then use land-based plug-in appliances, also fitted with a flexible cord but with no requirement for a ferrule on the wires clamped in similar screw terminals in the plug.
most plugs nowadays are moulded on but when i have bought bare lead devices such as spotlights there is generally some sort of ferule on the cable end,
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I found this on the net it is the indutrial version not the marine AC2WM but should assist. Sleeman and Hawkins would be first call for spares
https://www.winget.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/PETTER-A-RANGE-WORKSHOP-MANUAL.pdf
or this https://mes-midlands.ecwid.com/AC2WM-Mini-Twin-p212360047 might be better
I think MES may have spares too
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In short (pun intended) if you really must have a narrowboat it can be made to work, but we find a 13m widebeam gives far more mooring opportunities at less cost than a 20m narrowboat and more space, also easier to work the locks. Belgium is lovely but you will probably want to venture into the Netherlands and France where similar considerations will apply. Also you will probably be unable to buy one locally so if you do buy and import do let us know how you get on with the import post B*****************
Tam and Di have some interesting views on working narrowboats and even narrowboat style widebeams in those locks.
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5 minutes ago, Boaty Jo said:
To what stage sailaway? Shell upwards......
interesting if you look at all the little extras in that list which a normal person might want the price of a fully fitted comes much closer to more upmarket boats
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2 hours ago, IanD said:
Or maybe we should nail someone's head to the floor instead? It worked for the Piranha Brothers... ?
I hope that is ironic and not sarcastic
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1 hour ago, Athy said:
Was he serious, or was he just being sarcastic?
maybe irony?
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“Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence.”
― Oscar Wilde -
54 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:
Irony, please, not sarcasm. I would never sink so low...
Verbal irony is a figure of speech that communicates the opposite of what is said, while sarcasm is a form of irony that is directed at a person, with the intent to criticise. The current study used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) with the aim of mapping the neural networks involved in the processing of sarcastic and non-sarcastic irony. Participants read short texts describing an interaction between two characters, which ended in either a literal, sarcastic, or non-sarcastic ironic comment. Results showed that the mentalising network (mPFC) and semantic network (IFG) were more activated for non-sarcastic irony than for literal controls. This would suggest that interpreting this kind of language involves understanding that the speaker does not mean what they literally say, as well as processes involved in conflict detection and resolution. Sarcastic irony recruited more of the semantic network, as well as areas associated with humour appreciation and subcortical structures, indicating that more complex neural mechanisms underlie the comprehension of sarcastic versus non-sarcastic irony.
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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:
Mine has always done it from the leakoff pipes. I suspect they need replacing for the third time. It seems a weak spot in the system.
Listers can run happily with a huge amount of oil contamination - I used to wait till it was an inch up the stick, empty half out and replace with new oil. Did that twice then a full change. If it gets too thin, the engine will overheat. Mine (SR2) just used to stop rather than do the runaway thing.
Obviously better to fix the problem, but it too me six years to find someone to do it, engineers who understand Listers are thin on the ground. The bloke who rebuilt the engine refused to believe it was happening.
We had this common problem, it was a shared boat so little got done for a long time, when it was finally fixed the engineer remarked that the engine insides were the cleanest he had ever worked upon
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6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:
I sensed a note of sarcasm in his post that you may have missed.
maybe in mine too
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1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:
I didn't. I voted to remain, and still think a decision to narrow horizons and erect borders where there were none is one of the stupidest and most ignorant decisions ever made. And expensive, as people seem to be finding out much to their apparent surprise.
However, it was a democratic decision, we live in a democracy and, unlike many, I like to live in the world as it is, not as I have a fantasy of it being or try to pretend it is anything other than it is. Any other comments I might make would have to be deposited in the politics wing where I no longer appear (much).
these problems are not an ineveitable consequence of brexit and capable of being reversed, unlikely maybe but not fantasy, this thread is about problems created for boaters and discussion therof and I agree any should not need to be diverted into politics
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12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:
I asked that question very early on in the thread and people indicated to me that was the case
ffs this from the rya in post 1 "In April 2019 HMRC advised the RYA that, “In the event of the UK, leaving the EU without a deal, HMRC will allow RGR for any pleasure craft, which has union paid status and belongs in the UK because of registration or the nationality/place of establishment of the owner. "
RGR = returned goods relief
1 we were not told
2 we were told the exact opposite
3 even so most of us were not naive enough to not suspect they might renege but it still does not mean there was much we could do about it or make it fair
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34 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:
If that was the case when bringing a boat back from any other country, then it was already written down.
it may have been for boats which have never been eu paid but for boats already vat paid what was written down changed at the last minute read the first post of this thread
36 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:For us boaters, of course, we no longer have the threat from the EU of banning the use of red diesel for propulsion, so we win there. Don't we?
is that why you voted for brexit then?
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Actually an EU registered boat returning to the EU (whether or not from the UK) appears to enjoy a greater chance of escaping double vat than the other way round - since that issue for whatever obscure reason has been raised, from the rya site;
"If the yacht is registered in the EU and on the condition that the requirements of Article 203 of the Union Customs Code (UCC) are met, the boat may be released for free circulation as returned goods according to Article 203 UCC on the condition that the declarant is established in the customs territory of the Union. The customs declaration may be lodged orally.
Where the declarant is not established in the EU, the possibility of an exception will need to be checked with customs.
Caution:
Please think carefully before changing the registration of your boat to an EU member state: "
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23 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:
Surely it is going to be the same, now, bringing a boat into the UK from anywhere, the country it's coming from (EU or nonEU) is now irrelevant. That's the whole point of leaving the EU - to be a separate state.
of course
24 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:If people had wanted the rules/taxes/duties to stay the same, we wouldn't have had a majority for change.
could you point me to the bit where it said that if we left the EU and you had already paid vat on your boat you would have to pay it again please
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21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
The Quote awas £30,000
quite so not exactly cheap
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It seems some are already coming home
https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/peters-may-increases-sailings-to-avoid-post-brexit-tax-penalties/
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17 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:
You are absolutely correct - the problems have been created by our own dear beloved country. At the moment a vessel that was granted Qualifying Ship status for zero rate VAT should continue to have that status on its return to the UK. However I can see that this is an ideal opportunity for HMRC to have the rules changed in a way that would make zero status for such vessels impossible in the future. Boat owners and now also musicians are trying hard to get the 90 days stay in a 180 day period rule for Schengen countries extended or changed, but it will most likely happen by agreements with each individual EU country which will take quite a time to set up if it even is possible. Now the likes of Elton John have got involved at least Johnson and co. might listen rather than just shrug their shoulders as they have so far.
Tam
It probably hasn't occured to HMRC that some ships will be zero rated so I think you may well be OK on that one, the fact is that very few of the estimated 33000 UK boats in the EU are zero rated.
I too am hopeing that we can piggyback on the musicians issues with travel, and their celebrity backers (though it is reported on the DBA forum that Robin Knox Johnson has joined the fray on our behalf) but as I understand it the musicians are happy with 90 days but need work permits wheras we do not need work permits but want more than 90 days.
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16 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:
The real problem is that nobody knew what the new rules would be until an agreement was in place
As said before these particular rules are totally under the control of the UK and the RYA were first told that they would be applied in a sensible manner and then that written promise was reneged on 3 months before brexit happened in the middle of a pandemic
18 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:And because of that, it was impossible to train the tax and customs bods required, or to adjust general rules to take into account special cases - assuming anyone thinks these are important. No doubt things will be tweaked, but a few well off blokes not being able to move their boats about is going to be a hell of a lot further down the agenda than, say, empty supermarket shelves in NI, or the prime minister's favourite opera singer not being allowed to warble in London.
It clearly is well down the agenda but that didnt stop them having the time to reverse their previous promise
Nor is every yachtsman or canal boater well off
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17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:
Depends how long you intend to keep the boat in the EU I suppose.
If you bring it back this year you don't need to pay the UK VAT as I understand it. If you keep it on the trailer then send it back to the EU once you have proof it's been returned to the UK don't you get another three years?
If that sounds like a lot of messing about, how many times would you need to do that to equal the cost of bringing it back once later and paying the tax?
1) a few more years yet 2) correct afaik but it really would be a lot off faff 3)between 4 and 10 is my best guess
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:
There is always a truck ?
Did you build / fit out the boat here or in the EU ?
yes that is how it went and would come back but not ideal for popping back every three years to renew it's vat status, it was completed and used in the UK several years before going to Euland
2 minutes ago, Loddon said:I will be interested to see what happens when the first "Qualifying Ship" comes over from the EU, will HMRC try and get full VAT paid or will it be VAT paid at 0% as it should be.
another reason why they will not make any money but the number of barges that qualify is not that great
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41 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
When we came back from Croatia, we were not allowed to cross the Bay before 1st May, but talking to the insurers often helps and you can get endorsements added.
I don't think my canal boat is up to crossing the Biscay or even the Channel so the option of popping back every 3 years to renew it's vat status isn't really on but thanks for the thought.
Plan B is to sell the boat in Europe when I am finished in Europe and replace it in the UK, rather sad as I fitted the boat from a bare hull and another will not be the same, I imagine most people will do the same so they will actually raise very little money.
1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:The leisure boating scene has been badly impacted with not only the VAT but the 90 day rule, it could have been handled better, but I guess that the few 100 / 1000 affected is absolutely unimportant (to those who could have done it differently) in the greater scheme of things.
you are right it could have been handled a lot better and the government are not interested the actual figures (according to the RYA) are 33000 yachtsmen
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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
It was widely known that wherever a boat was at 11:00pm (UK time) on 31st December would be where it would be assessed for any VAT. Owners of boats had plenty of notice to get them into UK waters so they could get a 'location certificate' which would remove the VAT liability.
It is a shame that the threat of VAT being applied was necessary but unfortunatley that is the law.
The leisure boating scene has been badly impacted with not only the VAT but the 180 day rule, it could have been handled better, but I guess that the few 100 / 1000 affected is absolutely unimportant (to those who could have done it differently) in the greater scheme of things.
I don't wish to divert this important (at least to some of us ) thread into politics but on a point of fact from the RYA press release
"In April 2019 HMRC advised the RYA that, “In the event of the UK, leaving the EU without a deal, HMRC will allow RGR for any pleasure craft, which has union paid status and belongs in the UK because of registration or the nationality/place of establishment of the owner"
(RGR is returned goods relief) This only changed in September 2020 so clearly not suffcient notice given the hazards of sailing in winter during a pandemic nor is it the law - they have always had and still have discretion to allow return of goods previously exported without further vat
6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:Does that apply if you have evidence that the VAT was originally paid in the UK ?
Assuming (?) you have the original receipts and BoS it would show UK VAT had been paid, and a boat built prior to 1973 would never have required VAT to be paid anyway.
As far as we (That is the RYA) know, yes, that is why if they were to waive it it would be called returned goods relief.
And in answer to your second question vat is payable on antiques so presumably would be on old boats
Boats returning from Europe
in Waterways News & Press
Posted · Edited by Phoenix_V
At last a brexit benefit shame about Mrsmelly being all electric
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/966132/Summary_of_responses_to_the_red_diesel_consultation.pdf
Government response 4.6Following consultation, the government has decided to maintain the entitlement to use red diesel beyond April 2022 for all commercial boat operating industries, including but not limited to the fishing and inland water freight industries. 4.7The government has therefore decided not to change the treatment of private pleasure craft in Great Britain, where they will continue to be able to use red diesel and pay their fuel supplier the difference between the red diesel rate and the white dieselrateon the proportion they intend to use for propulsion