agg221
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Posts posted by agg221
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21 hours ago, MtB said:
I have to say, a GRP top is probably a hundred million times better than a wooden top in the leakage stakes. But only if if the hull side decks have upstands to which the cabin sides are fixed. So this would be the deal-maker or deal breaker for me.
I completely agree with this. GRP makes a perfectly good cabin but it's all in the design detailing as to whether the boat leaks or the water runs neatly away, which is down to upstands. There is a parallel with wooden windows. Many frames made in the 18th/19th century survive whereas windows from the 1970s are generally rotten. It is not just down to the quality of the wood - a lot of it comes down to proper design detailing.
I also wouldn't be so sure that the hull is automatically a write-off due to age. Different grades of metal really do corrode at very different rates. The famous Springer gasometer steel is the same thickness, from the same era, and much of it is still pretty well the same thickness as when it was first made. It could have been very regularly blacked, anodes fitted for the past 30yrs etc.
The OP has clearly decided against the boat, which is fine, but I personally wouldn't write off a boat based on age alone (although I may take that point rather further than most!)
Alec
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Just now, Tony Brooks said:
No photo!
Resized and added.
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10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
The GSIUR only applies to liveaboards - I do not understand why and what is the difference between us 'leisure boaters' who spend 6 months living aboard, and someone who spends 12 months aboard - are they at twice the risk, if they only spent 11 months aboard are they no longer liveaboards.
Are you only a liveaboard if you do not have any 'bricks & mortar address ?
Like all laws there will always be those on the fringe for whom they do not apply - like council tax where two sides of the street can fall within the juristriction of two local authorities who have £100s difference in council tax for the 'identical' house.
Anyway - if you are a leisure / weekend boater then the GSIUR does not apply but the BSS becomes the 'rules'. I cannot see that they could introduce it retrospectively, so keep your ear to the ground and make a decision when you know change is definitely happening.
I don't pretend to understand the difference either. In our case it is the weekend/up to a couple of weeks of holiday variant of leisure boater so it's categorically BSS which applies. I will do as you suggest and if it looks like future installations of the the good old Morco are going to become an issue I will make a rapid decision.
Alec
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Thanks Both, attached is the only picture I have which shows the hydraulic pump. The linkage actuates through a single rod on the LHS in the picture, travelling up and down to move the lever between forward and reverse.
Not sure if there is enough there to see whether it is a valve block or a swash plate, but I am strongly suspecting the latter as that would fit with the ability to use the rod for continuous adjustment of drive from full forward to full reverse.
Tony - to clarify slightly, starting from tickover, putting the engine in full reverse the engine note dips significantly and then picks up. The boat picks up speed very quickly. Starting from tickover and putting the engine in full forward, there is no drop in engine note and the boat speed picks up gently.
All the components were specified 20yrs ago or so and seem to be very satisfactory. Therefore I think I am looking for a change. The question is whether I am looking for something worn, something broken or something slipping out of adjustment. The obvious one to start with is the adjustment on the linkage - drop it out of place, try pushing the valve full over and see what happens. If that works then I know what I need to change. If not however, any knowledge I can go in with for-armed would be very handy (for example, from this thread I have already learned that swash plate and valve block would be options, and that led me to a very useful video which explained how a swash plate works so I am much better informed already!
Alec
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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:
I wouldn't like to say - you can put whatever interpretation on it that you wish.
If you are a liveaboard then the GSIUR 'trumps' the BSS anyway.
I was actually asking it as a very practical question - not a liveaboard just a leisure boat, currently weighing up options for heating/hot water and a Morco is currently on the list of possible solutions for that. I want to make sure I don't get caught out by a matter of a few months with no sensible options remaining available, but I have a list of things to do as long as your arm so if there is no rush, I would leave the decision on the hot water solution for a year or so to see how things go, but it looks like that may now be a risk? Like most people, we have an open plan galley/dinette which converts to beds and the Morco would naturally go on the galley wall, which would not meet the GSIUR anyway.
One would like to think that reasonable notice would be given of impending changes, enabling people to install what they have bought, but history suggests that is not always the case, hence the question.
Alec
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We took Oates for its first serious run this weekend. It goes well but not quite how I expected so I was looking to compare experiences from anyone with a hydraulic drive.
The boat has a Kelvin J2 coupled to a hydraulic pump with a hydraulic oil tank, pipes through to the stern and then a hydraulic 'motor' at the stern'. The motor itself is quite well buried so I have not yet worked out what make/model it is. The pump has no maker's plate and has been painted allover green to match the Kelvin so again, not sure quite what we have here. It was installed in about 1998-2000 so has to be what was a current model then.
From stationary idle in neutral, engaging reverse part way gives smooth pick-up to a reasonable speed. Engaging full reverse causes the engine note to dip significantly as it works hard before picking up again, suggesting some very heavy load is being applied and hence a lot of torque. It also picks up speed very quickly. However in forward it only does the 'gentle' pick-up. Does anyone have any equivalent experience, ie should I be able to get that very high torque type response in forward? If so it suggests something is out of adjustment - any ideas what (beyond the linkage itself)?
Alec
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1 hour ago, IanD said:
Alrewas and Shardlow are nice but large parts of that stretch of the T&M are not that pleasant, partly because of the noise from the ever-present A38 -- and Burton is disappointing given its history. As mentioned, some of the broad locks -- like those on the Soar and the Leicester Section -- are not easy, not just heavy and leaky but some (mainly Soar/Leicester?) insist on swinging open, the combination of the two is difficult if there are only two of you on the boat (like we were) and I imagine much more so if you're single-handing.
Both Trent and Soar can be difficult in poor weather if there's a lot of rain, not exactly unknown in England especially at this time of year, so be prepared to have to wait until conditions improve -- we had to do that even last August.
I'd also go via the Coventry...
Funnily enough, the A38 didn't bother us, but that could be something to do with the noise of the engine! The stretch from Shardlow to Willington was very pretty in the autumn sunshine with the leaves just turning. Midland Chandlers at Mercia Marina were very helpful and well stocked and we missed most of Burton on Trent in the dwindling light (not much to miss though). Barton Turn is a decent mooring on that stretch, just far enough from the A38 and down a bit to block out the noise. Had a very pleasant meal at the Thai restaurant at Barton Marina - a bit more upmarket than we would usually go but the pubs around there weren't serving food and the restaurant was happy to accommodate us at 9pm with two children (10 and 12). The food was really good.
It's a bit flat from there to Fradley but the short stretch of Trent, followed by Alrewas itself, were nice.
Gates re-opening was an issue for us too - mainly the bottom gates. The use of a mop handle solved that one.
Alec
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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:
Correct.
For many years there has been a derogation in force allowing the use of open-flue instananeous water heaters on the proviso that it was only until realistic alternatives 'room sealed' became readily available on the market.
That derogation is currently still in force, but I am led to believe that it may soon change as the BSS are reviewing the available room-sealed water heaters to see if they are "direct equivalents, and readily available'.
Could this be summarised as 'anyone thinking of installing a Morco had better get on with it?
Alec -
We have just done Redhill Marina to Stafford Boat Club, so the top end of the route you are thinking of. The T&M between Great Haywood and Burton on Trent was very pleasant. Between Burton and Derwent Mouth was scenic but the broad locks were heavy going - gates are worn so stiff and leaky. We were up against it on time (Shardlow to Stafford was the weekend just gone, including travel to/from to boat) and it wasn't all going well, so that probably detracted from it a bit. The Trent was an experience, but not somewhere I would look to go on a regular basis. If you are not in a hurry, that route would give you the option of heading down to Shardlow, then picking your timing and nipping down to the Erewash for a side trip, waiting there for suitable water on the Soar and heading on.
Personally I would choose the Coventry but that's nothing more than personal preference.
Alec
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Looks like the 'ellum has been left behind? If so, well worth recovering it for the metalwork and as a pattern at least.
Alec -
Excellent - enjoy it!
We have just got back from giving our J2 its first serious workout. It needs a few things tweaking and a bit of fettling, but when everything was set right it really was good. Certainly got a lot of attention as we went along.
Alec -
1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:
Where can I cruise the Ark I am having built by Collingwood for me, my entire extended family and our pets to live on? CaRT's published maximum boat dimensions are all in metres and don't mention cubits anywhere. Is cassette, or pump out better for the quantity of waste I'm expecting to be generated?
Noah
Composting surely....
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9 hours ago, northern said:
Thank you.
With all the annual leave I've taken I've not enough time to do the journey as much as I'd like to. It's currently on the Ashby. I'm hoping to get it move to Great Haywood which'll take 3 days or so and take it from there - I'm hoping to find a mooring somewhere on the SU - I've got enough time to take it from GH onwards, just. I need to crack on soon because of winter closures.
Thank you for posting your experiences, which made interesting reading.
Not sure if this helps, but we recently bought ours in Nottingham and are heading for a mooring in Market Drayton. We are weekending it across. Trains are involved in the car shuffle and so far we have found the following:
Moorings on the SU were tricky to find. There were a couple advertised on the CRT website, one towpath side at Norbury and one on a pontoon in Market Drayton. We were specifically looking between Gnosall and Market Drayton so don't know outside that range, other than Overwater where friends moor and is decent, and not too expensive. In the Market Drayton to Gnosall range, we took the one offside mooring we could find available.
Stafford, Rugeley and Tamworth are all on the same train line and all accessible for moving it.
It appears that 3rd October was the start of the winter mooring season so many private mooring sites are quite full. Nevertheless, we have found short-term moorings are available for our route at sensible locations. The only exception was last weekend to this, where we left it towpath-side. Not our preference, particularly as it was mooring on pins in the bank only, but a case of needs must for the week. Unfortunately it pulled the back pin due to the soft bank (2' pins were buried completely but still not enough) but someone kindly hammered it back in. Shardlow and Tixall appear to be places where it is reasonably safe to leave it for a week if needed.
Alec
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15 minutes ago, dmr said:
Essentially you are planning to use the engine as a radiator and heat store?
Nice idea and I have thought about something similar but all considered its probably easier just to put a little radiator in the engine room.
The engine will hold heat for a few hours but not all night. In winter we run ours (a mere JD3) 5:30 till 8 and its still a little warm at midnight but not the next morning.
Are there any direct metal connections between engine and boat that will let all the heat escape?
A Kelvin J is a precious thing that needs looking after so you need to be 100% sure that no mistakes or failures can compromise the cooling system, this would include preventing the engine from getting up to temperature which would likely do it no good at all.
Yes, that's correct, I am thinking of using the engine as a radiator and heat store. Not holding heat overnight is not an issue - if it's cold enough to need the heating on we will have the Refleks running, so it will continue to remain warm. This is generally regarded as a good thing to reduce wear anyway; in fact some modern vehicles have a Webasto type heater installed for that purpose.
Good thought on the heat losses through the engine bed. The cooling pathway does not specifically run that way, but it could result in heat loss through conduction via the lower half of the crank case.
Equally good thoughts from you and Detling that the system needs to ensure the engine runs at temperature. I'll have to think through the various scenarios and make sure that any valves/controls are automated so far as possible to deal with the complete logic tree of possible scenarios. In practice, the Refleks will be installed initially without the hot water outlet as I am going to have to custom build it. That will give me a chance to understand how much heat output I am really dealing with and how it behaves in the heat flow around the boat.
Alec
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Thanks Both, it sounds like I haven't made any glaring errors so it's worth doing.
Surprising that there is no data for Kelvins as radiators - there is probably plenty for their use as boat anchors though!
Alec
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9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
In no particular order:
2. Solid fuel stoves in boat sizes do not normally have any overheat cutout. So unless the Epping has been converted to run on oil, it won't have an overheat cutout. Even if it did, there is every chance that you would boil the water and expel it from the header tank.
Is the Kelvn tank/heat exchanger cooled, or direct raw water cooled and does it run unpressurised, unlike modern engines?
3. Both flap and spring type one way valves are available.
Thanks Tony,
The solid fuel stove will not have a back-boiler - just be a source of heat independent of the water heating system. It is the Refleks oil stove which will have the hot water coil and the thermal cut-out to the oil supply. This system is available.
The Kelvin is heat exchanger cooled. It is unpressurised beyond the 1.5m or so from the unsealed header tank. The water currently circulates through the engine and calorifer and then, when up to temperature, a thermostat opens which circulates through a keel cooling loop.
The use of a one way valve should completely remove the risk of 3. Flap is probably the best option for very low pressures?
Alec
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We have a small boat so everything is more on the caravan scale rather than boat scale, ie compact and multi-purpose. That is except for the lump that is the Kelvin J2, which gets honoured with more space than the children have between them! The layout is back cabin (7'), engine room (8'), small shower/toilet, open galley/saloon with dinette/bed (~12').
At present, there is a compact single coil calorifer run off the engine and an Epping stove right at the back, and that's it for heating/hot water.
We will retain a solid fuel stove, but are looking at heating/hot water solutions which are easier to use to give uniform heat throughout the boat and hot water. Also, because this boat is for leisure, using solid fuel only makes it a bit tricky to shut down at the end of the last day. Because of the extremely compact size, a Refleks diesel heater looks very promising, due to the zero stand-off needed from non-flammable materials, and the ability to run a copper coil for a heating/hot water system. There is a route that can be used to allow a gravity fed system, running round to the calorifer and the back cabin. However, the unconventional bit, is there any particular reason why I can't plumb it in series with the engine cooling loop?
Running the stove but not the engine, e.g. overnight, the engine would then act as a heat sink which would help achieve uniform background heating throughout the boat since it is in the middle, and would be pre-heated which would aid starting in the morning. During the day, the engine would provide enough heat without the Refleks, so the stove could be shut down and the heating system would be driven by the engine water pump. Both would share the common header tank.
So far as I can see, all I would need is a valved bypass for the engine water pump, to switch between gravity fed and pumped, and a couple of small twin pipe finned radiators, one for each end. Fault conditions I can think of are:
1. Forgetting to open the bypass valve when firing up the stove and the engine stopped. Outcome - should not cause a problem as the stove shares a common header tank.
2. On a hot summer's day, turning off the whole heating loop and forgetting to turn it on again before starting the stove. Outcome - controlled by a thermostatic cut-out at the stove hot water outlet.
3. Forgetting to close the bypass valve when starting the engine. Cooling efficiency may drop slightly, due to back-flow, unless a one-way check valve is installed (are these available?)
So the question is, is the above feasible, have I missed something or is there a better, equally compact system that can be installed using mostly what I already have?Alec
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I did Hagley under guidance and Samson myself (with my wife). Samson is now in need of further work and I don't have the time, but I do know how to do it in a way that works (and what not to do in some instances). If you are going down the DIY route, happy to offer comment/help. Best of luck!
Alec
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We ate at the Shroppie Fly in August and enjoyed it. We were two boats together so a party of 9 and they were friendly and welcoming, and the food was decent. Definitely agree re The Mill though.
Alec
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Further update - they have come back with a price of £95 a piece, which I didn't think was at all bad for a special batch. They are actually cheaper than the standard 9" ones.
Alec
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49 minutes ago, haggis said:
We are going to Ellesmere port on Kelpie and we have time for a side trip. If we go to audlem can we turn a 58 foot boat at the shroppie. Fly?
Haggis, driving down in beautiful sunshine but we had to scrape the car!
/
Winding in the entrance to Overwater marina is probably as close as you can get - good bankside moorings along there and only a 5min walk up to the Shroppie Fly (and the bookshop).
Alec
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3 hours ago, BEngo said:
It usually is, hence why I said "a suitably high helix angle", and why it is hard to make. Hatton paddles are one example where the weight of the paddle and threaded rod drives the nut whist the paddle is self-closing.
Early motor cars also had worm and wheel drive to their back axles and they have a suitable high helix angle worm/wheel to allow the inertia of the vehicle to drive the shaft on overrun. Otherwise the back wheels would stop every time the throttle was closed.
N
The long helix should work, but you may need a rather long throw on the rod. The longest I have encountered on a rod was about 2' from full forward to full reverse, which was quite tricky to feel for inside the cabin roof when wanting to reverse.
I think if I was trying to do this, I would go for either rack and pinion or a con-rod onto a wheel, the latter needing to be put round a 4:1 ratio to gear it up for two full turns. I would also be inclined to look at pulleys and v-belts to take the rotation down from the control rod to the engine as they the half twist could be introduced directly without any gearing.
In practice, I would leave it as wheel and wheel!
Alec
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An update:
I spoke to P.R.O. Cast yesterday. They hadn't made these before but had a play with it last night and have confirmed that they can make 7" drop-back opening portholes (single glazed).
I thought this may of interest to others as they will look essentially identical to a standard static porthole from the outside, so are ideal if you want ventilation in a traditional style boat. If anyone else does happen to want any, shout as they will be made as an initial batch containing mine, some for a friend who wants them for a back cabin, and any others requested by then.
Cheers
Alec
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9 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
Genius!
That's how to 'navigate' the prohibited but legally open stub of the Wednesbury Canal from Ryders Green Junction. That's the only bit of the extant connected BCN I have never navigated. I don't think any boat will ever make it down there again.
We went up that one one year before it was prohibited. Last time we tried the nearby Gospel Oak branch and got further than I think anyone can have done in years, but bog snorkelling would be the only option to get further than that.
Alec
Chicken and egg?
in New to Boating?
Posted
You can build straight onto the floor but I don't think I would want to. The air gap gives some insulation and somewhere for any water to move around in and escape. If you used a water-impervious floor such as vinyl then you could probably overcome the water issue but the floor would definitely feel cold.
What does work is taking the gap right down. In ours it is under 2" as the odd hull means we don't need any ballast beyond a bit of balancing trim weight.
In theory, you could run a narrowboat at 3' draft, losing only 3" to baseplate, air gap and flooring. That would allow 6'10" of headroom on under 5' of air draft. You would end up doing a lot of ploughing though. We have around 6'5" of headroom, draw 2'9" and have an air draft of under 5' so it is possible. Like everything around boats, it's a compromise.
Alec