RichardN

I am not sure if we cover as many miles as you do but once clocks change we cruise most weekends, work the week and probably do around 1200 lock miles over 60 days in 6 months (need to check that figure). Our normal mooring whilst cruising is for 5 or 6 nights but 11 or 12 is not unusual. On occasions we need to overstay by a day or two and we talk to the patrol officer and ask where will we cause least grief, they have always been helpful. The most extreme case was when Sue needed to see a man with a black & decker to get bits of bone screwed together and we did not move for 6 weeks (I offered to get my nice Bosch drill out but she said no but with a few more consonants). Their attitude then was look you can't be in that place but if you are in this place then we will keep an eye on your boat for you. Clearly you have not had the same happy experience that we have had, I have no idea why not. Going back to the OP and the CC/CM debate: I do despair when for example I see the London Boaters survey figures with roughly half getting tickets and most not talking to BW when they say they have a genuine reason for overstaying. If you talk to BW they are very helpful. If you overstay somewhere then say your engine has broken down then they won't believe you and I have to say that I fully understand why. NABO says that they represent all boaters yet for years it has always been unclear does that mean they represent the Paul Davieses of this world or the people who pay for a mooring. The problem with having some sort of permit to CM is then you need to charge an amount similar or more than the local moorings or people on the moorings will start CN-ing. The Lee consultation pitched the figure under the local day rate and there were squeals of anguish so no your idea won't work but I am surprised that you seem to be pushing the Lee Consultation approach.

Indigo Dream had 435 points according to the Cat's site plus extra marks for questiions

I will report - I will be there on Saturday but without Sue as her choir is singing that day and with less dogs then usual as a festival will be too much for Jelly Boy, Greyhound #2, Lynx, cut open a pad on some glass in Walsall Basin on Saturday so he is on a 10 day exercise ban. Greyhound #1, Lou, on the other hand will enjoy tarting up to people so she can come. I sort of have a vain hope of getting home on Saturday but the experience of a quick cup of tea with Malus & Atlas last Saturday suggests that could be wishful thinking.

Rumour has it that next year you will be able to be towed but by slightly older technology as they will allow horse drawn boats, so you just need to grab one of those little horses you see tethered on the Curly Wurly - well at least to my inexperienced eye they look like they could fit through a bridge hole. I am not sure if even our supply of dog c*&p bags will be enough. I think they should also introduce a negative bonus points for springers :-)

Do check with RCR, I think that Tony has stopped running the courses in Reading but does the RCR courses. I have been on one of his courses and found it excellent. When I went on a course there were 4 women, one quickly learnt to be devastingly competent and was the star of the course. I suspect about half the course had no idea when we started, all bar one person knew what to do by the end of the course. If you think the courses are stopping then book onto the last one at SPCC!

"London Boaters" have published the results of the their survey. If I remember right 57% have had one patrol notice or more. I followed a link to here but if you go here you get to an index of all their research, some of which is worth looking at and you can click throug to the same document. I seem to recall that Paul Davies made a similar FOI request about patrol notices ....

Indigo Dream's route: Aldersley Junction Up the 21 (we had to do the 21 as we had not done it before, mistake as very slow, other boats on the flight, and worse very low on water until I cycled up to the top and let the top paddles run for 5 minutes. Is there something wrong with the bywashes around lock 7 or 8?) Curly Wurly (grounded in a couple of places, I will see if we recorded where) Detoured to Grove Colliery Basins Down Rushall and Perry Parr (bottom lock awkward as obstructed by something which we could only partially remove - that lock is deep even when empty) Got a chinese takeaway at Cuckoo Wharf, hit the spot very well. Up Aston, Farmers Bridge and Smethwick (hit something metallic and also scraped/grounded in mid channel on the Old Main Line - possibly due to having a big back deck filled with 5 big people and 4 greyhounds (average weight around 35 kg each, thats the dogs, humans a tiny tiny bit more) (Failed to do the engine arm as we were there too early) Up to Titford (total delight, our steering crew reckoned that going up was like being at Alton Towers)then down again Down Spon, down Ryders Green and into the Walsall Arm (Pudding Green to Ryders seemed shallow, smelly and slow, the Walsall Canal loads and loads better since being spot dredged but still a bit shallow) Did suggest to the team that if we were early we go pop up to Birchalls and back down again to take our lock count to over 100 but that idea did not go down well. :-) We will fall down because we simply did not know the answers to questions without going there unlike some who knew the answers without going there, we just don't have that wonderful encyclopaedic knowledge of the BCN. Some questions were very sneaky eg Greenland and Wulfrun, real Duhhh moment when you work it out. Great weekend. We now only have a few bits of the BCN that we have not done - Engine Arm, the locks above Walsall, Anglesey Basin and the bit of canal off Ryders Green Junction, can't remember the name so have to target those next time. We left the boat in Walsall and as our next destination is Shardlow we may well go up the Walsall Locks next weekend - route still to be decided but will be affected by an almost empty water tank and an almost full toilet tank. Wonder if the triple shot lattes made with 20 (!!!!) pints of milk in 24 hours had something to do with that. We are still collecting sponsorship so if any one is feeling generous please click here: http://www.mycharitypage.com/IndigoDream. Also here is a plug for another boater raising money for Macmillan by doing the Great North Run, I think for the 3rd time: http://www.justgiving.com/Geoff-Wade01

I found it hard to work out a balanced viewpoint. Actually the more I read the more difficult it is!

Congratulations to the BCN Society for organising this event again. I can't think of anywhere else in the country that you could do this. I think it is great that the Challenge gets you to go to parts of the BCN that you would not normally go and I have to say they are great. I particularly like the Curly Wurly, I think that despite all the cut backs great strides are being made in keeping the Birmingham lock flights alive and the spot dredging has made a real difference. We will enter again at the first opportunity. My money is on Captain Ahab winning but don't tell him I said that.

As I said this is a strange debate. I deliberately quoted you in full but of course you prefer to be you. I have been reading loads simply to make up my mind how to respond to the consulation but must admit I am tending now to skip your posts.

Is that in the rules? :-) We are running so far behind. I have broken the linkage (or whatever you call it) to my car gearbox, Sue's flight back from Belfast is delayed ...

I have to say that I find this debate very strange. I think Dave is right in his interpretation of the court judgement, however hopeful you may be, it is wrong to say that BW lost in court. Someone has quoted statistics that the majority of over-stayers are those with a home mooring so I went and looked at those statistics and could not draw that interpretation from them at all.

Our sponsorship drive is going well. We are raising monies for Greyhoundhomer Essex – the branch of the Retired Greyhound Trust that our dogs came from. The branch is run by unpaid volunteers and they rely very heavily on donations to cover kennel fees, food, vet bills etc. They are a small charity so even a £5 donation makes a difference to them, especially in the present climate. At the time of writing we are up to £1550 in cash terms which with gift aid gets us to just over £1900. We are trying to get to £2000 so if you can spare a few pounds please click here. Thank you. Richard nb Indigo Dream

Thank you!

Sue is picking up 2 banners today. I have no idea what size they are or how we are going to secure them onto the boat and everything is assuming that Sue can fly back from Belfast on Friday morning ..... Where was that thread about sea crossings?

Well we will have to see the colour of your money first! Or those the team with the most females go first? :-)

Hi Folks Ash permitting, we hope to take part in the BCN Marathon Challenge and have been using that as an opportunity to raise sponsorship for the Greyhoundhomer branch of the Retired Greyhound Trust. If anyone is up for dusting off their credit cards then our sponsor page is here: http://www.mycharitypage.com/IndigoDream, any monies that you can donate will be gratefully received. We want to try and get to £2,000, so far have managed just over £1250 with gift aid. We set the page up on the my charity site as the RGT already had an account with them and they are refreshingly upfront and reasonable on charges. Sue will be trying to do a live blog, well do a blog post every 4 hours or so hopefully aided and abetted by guest blogger, Greygal and 3 of her greyhounds. It will tell our sponsors how we are doing, the BCN Challenge is a great event and deserves as much publicity as possible. The blog will be here. Richard nb Indigo Dream

Off-topic. The Oxford quote is just about planning permission. If you are carrying out any building works in the bricks and mortar world then the Building Regulations (and possibly a load of other laws) may apply and a whole new set of rules come into play.

Has anyone been using Odorlos / Odourlos over a longer period of time? We thought that Odorlos was great. Since the manufacture moved here and the name changed we have not managed to get our tank stable with odourlos. Had a couple of bottles of Odorlos hanging around in the shed, they worked fine. Went back to Odourlos and our tank went off again.

Exactly the point (and I do like your shorthand classification of the Thames as different, very accurate for this context).

During this debate over the last few months in various places I have see plenty of comments about "shiny boats" often made in quite a nasty way *sigh* Dredging is always a problem but according to this post http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30338&view=findpost&p=531423 it seems to be about not shutting gates. I must admit I don't see what is wrong with BW issuing rivers only licences to people on the Lee. For example if someone wanted to only use the Lee, Thames and Wey is that wrong? Is it for BW to cross examine every application before allowing it?

If I recall right Lady Muck's problem is caused by people ignoring the signs and not shutting gates behind them. The lock gates leak, pound drains. So if no boats move and the lock gates are left open then the pound will run dry. I suspect it will get a lot better with more boat movements. I am struggling here but cannot remember the Lee & Stort ever having water restrictions though as a river navigation that should happen in dry summers? The whole argument of the Lee and Stort running dry because it is used for navigation seems highly unlikely to me

My renewal has just come up and I got in touch with them as the maths really did not work. I have now had one email quoting a different renewal figure and telling me that I would have had all the discounts any way then another saying that one discount is for good will so contradicting the first email which in turn contradicts the renewal letter. So admin wise it looks like RCR are having some issues, I was a little unhappy following a service earlier in the year, I have not called them out for 5 years so don't really know what they are like nowadays. That said when we had a share in a boat over 5 years ago we called out them several times and they were superb. I get the impression from reading the forum that people still think highly of RCR, I know Tony Brooks does and that is a worthwhile recomendation. So uneasy feeling from the admin this time, a worry that their standards may be slipping but a memory of fantastic service a few years ago. I will look at the alternatives but I suspect I will renew anyway. It will be a pound or so for every day that we cruise.

Yes we will be there. We finally made it to Birmingham this weekend, 67 locks this weekend so getting into the swing! Passed Tawny Owl at the top of Hatton but she looked a bit empty. Met Capt Ahab on Sunday for lunch. He has entered and no doubt will blog about it here. I see he has musing been about sunseekers on nitrous oxide going down the new main line but I think / hope he is going round on Wand’ring Bark.

Quite rightly too. How much has your grandstanding cost?