Tasemu
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Posts posted by Tasemu
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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
The battery isolator switch(es), often with a big red plastic "key". If you don't have any on inland waterways it is a BSS fail.
We do have one, can't remember if we tried to bypass it weeks ago. But definitely worth a shot. Cheers!
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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
More likely, one of the field or aux diodes has is faulty BUT if there is a heavy load on the ignition switch such as you might have on a car with wipers and heater fan turned on (unlikely on a boat) it can be worn contacts in the ignition switch or resistance between the battery and switch. This is because the field diodes are supplying some of the load.
I doubt that will be the problem, but check all multi-plugs in the main loom and if there is an "ignition" fuse make sure that is clean and tight. Also bridge the master switches to see if one has gone resistive.
Could you please elaborate on what a master switch is? As we haven't seen any.
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Hi all, have another issue with a close friends boat and was hoping to get some advice from you. We have a new alternator and have installed it as per the manual. We are running into an issue where, when starting the engine the battery charging indicator light is on, however when we increase RPM with the intention of starting the charge cycle, instead of turning off the indicator light is dimming. As we increase the RPM the light dims further (to almost off) when RPM is exceedingly high. However when lowing the RPM, the light increases in brightness.
Also we have noticed that the battery voltage is increasing roughly in sync with the RPM of the alternator from 13.5 at idle, up to 14.9 at full RPM.
We have also tried to diagnose a dirty ground by placing a extra ground cable from the alternator bracket directly to the negative of the battery, only for diagnostic purposes, however we have no change in results.
We have been told one of the field wining phases has been damaged, however upon inspection the windings appear to be in good condition, visually at least.
Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
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On 10/02/2023 at 18:29, peterboat said:
After reading the thread I have had a good play with the VSR, I fitted it because it is bi directional, the van has a tachograph fitted which left to it's own devices would flatten the starter battery. The 300 watt solar panel is big enough to keep both batteries fully charged I winter and big enough to keep the 12 volts compressor fridge (inlander) running in summer. We have a warm air heater website or Eibersplutter which will keep the van warm on low as I found out today. The upshot is the VSR worked as the destructions said it would disconnecting at 12.8 reconnecting at 13.3 volts so fingers crossed for the op
Seems to be working decently for him. Though i think this is probably not a silver bullet solution as I could imagine more solar and/or a bigger lithium bank could keep the voltage drop dropping enough when engaging the glow-plugs. Food for thought.
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On further inspection it appears to go into overload for no particular reason after 30 mins, then the revs go out of control. Honestly kinda not that bothered with it. Was just a spare I loaned out.
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1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:
Make, model? If its a cheap one its toast, maybe fixable if its a Honda. Could simply be exciter diodes or the AVR blown but it will cost to repair. Was he overloading it?
I have become very cautious of lending anything these days, the borrowers seem to think that its your fault if they break it.
Impax 2500w. Yeah it could well be toast. i thought maybe it was something to do with the carb/solenoid rpm controller. Though unsure why that would stop output unless there was a safety...
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Hi all, ran into an issue today when lending my suitcase generator to another boater. We started it up and it seemed to run fine for about half an hour. Then (and i heard this from by boat next door) the generator started revving extremely fast and loud like a jet plane. We stopped the unit and gave it some time to settle, however on restarting it the speed issue re-appeared. We are also getting no output indicator on the unit. I was hoping someone may have some advice on the issue and possibly run into something similar in the past.
Cheers!
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1 hour ago, peterboat said:
The draw from the heater plugs was enough to disconnect the VSR as it turns out
Ah Excellent! This is really good to know. I guess it could just work then.
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4 minutes ago, peterboat said:
It doesn't I have tried it just as the starter operates the voltage drops below 12.8 and the VSR disconnects for about 3-5 seconds. I have solar on the campervan so it charges both batteries by default, its currently charging at 14.55 as we speak
So you're saying the act of actually cranking the engine will drop the voltage enough to disengage the VSR and splitting the banks before there is a chance to draw any real power from the lithiums?
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34 minutes ago, nicknorman said:
The long cable introduces resistance which introduces voltage drop when current flows. So there will be a balance between current drawn from the starter battery and current drawn from the Li - more current from Li drops more voltage which means the voltage at the LA battery dips and makes the LA supply more current until equilibrium is reached. The proportion of current supplied by the Li will therefore depend on the resistance of the long cable and the other infrastructure between the Li and the LA.I don’t have any practical experience of commercial BMSs but if this one is the type with a separate charge and discharge connection, does it in fact allow discharge via the charge connections (or charge through the load connection)? It could be that the charge input is protected by a “perfect diode” bit of electronics that only allows current to flow one way - into the battery. And if that is the case, there is no possibility for the Li to discharge into the starter battery.
Unfortunately the BMS does not have separate charge and discharge connections. This might sound silly, but is there like a big ass diode you can just put in line with the VSR to make sure charge can only go one way? lol
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16 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:
Is there a way in this system to restrict the current the Lithium batts are taking from the alternator? They will take all that they can until disconnected and most alternator don't like running at full power output for long periods, as they are designed on the assumption that the power draw will decline gracefully as lead acids charge up. Overheating and damage to the alternator could result.
9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:That is one thing I was alluding to in my first reply, I suspect he may be using the "long cable" method. If that is what he is doing, then things may not be as bas as he thinks because the long cable will also limit the starting current drawn from the lithium bank.
Yeah I am using the long cable method.
I will admit i didn't think about it also limiting cranking current. Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the long cable method only work because the alternator can be 'limited' by it? I imagine the starter motor will pull what it needs regardless and a longer cable would just result in more heat but the same amperage drawn?
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28 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
I wonder if it is a faulty VSR. It still seems it is the solar voltage unless you have the lithium charging voltage at 14.6 or more (typical VSR cut out voltage). What happens if you turn the solar off and try again.
I fear it may be pointing to the need for a BtoB.
The VSR cuts-in at 13.3v and wont cut-out until the voltage drops to 12.8.
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4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
So it seems it is the solar charge to the engine bank that is keeping the VSR energised, if I understand what you are saying. So the question is how to prevent this happening. It seems to me that as engine batteries spend all the time all but fully charged and you are relying upon the BMS to do the lithium disconnect, you could connect the solar to the lithiums. That would make maximum use of the solar output, but when the alternator is charging the VSR would cut in and connect the two banks just as it does now. Engine stops, alternator output drops to zero, and the engine battery voltage could not hold the VSR engaged.
This is how we currently have it set up, the solar is connected to the lithiums. It appears that once the VSR engages it 'combines the batteries' which makes sense. This allows voltage of the Lifepo4 pack + the solar to be able to charge the starter too. Once the engine is stopped, because the VSR is engaged for a second or so and the batteries are still combined, this then allows the 'leisure side' of the VSR to feed power into the starter and never let it drop down below the VSR dis-engage voltage.
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14 minutes ago, Tony1 said:
Apologies if I've misunderstood the issue, as I'm certainly no expert, but if I have got it right, your issue is that you don't want the lithium battery to pass any charge back to the lead acid battery.
I have a roughly similar sort of thing. I have 2 lead acid batteries (one for each alternator). Eeach lead acid battery supplies charge to my lithium battery bank, via its own B2B charger.
But I am concerned that the lead acid batteries are not being looked after very well in this setup, for a lot of the year. This is because In my case I have a lot of panels, so between March-Nov I hardly ever run the engine to do charging- the lithiums get everything from the panels.
I probably start the engine once a week to do a cruise, but sometimes its once every two weeks. So in general, the lead acid batteries are not getting enough of a charge.
When I do charge using the engine, it is done via B2Bs, which do not allow any charge back to the lead acid batteries.
So in my case I have this issue where the lead acid batteries are not getting anything back from the lithiums, but I see it as a potential problem that will lead to the lead acids deteriorating.
So I'm looking at possible ways of getting some charge back from the lithiums into the lead acids, or maybe a switch to divert the MPPT charge from the lithiums into the lead acids.
Sort of, all i'm really worried about is that the VSR is not disconnecting on engine shutdown, so the next time I start the engine it would be cranking off the lithium bank. And I've heard that's a no-no.
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48 minutes ago, BEngo said:
What are you using to control the alternator charging parameters please?
N
We're using a BMS to control what gets into the cells.
EDIT: Sorry if i'm misunderstanding and I do appreciate the help. The alternator is charging at ~14v but the BMS itself is what is cutting off the charge before it can do any harm. We don't have anything that is effecting the alternator itself. I've seen this setup before and am fairly sure there isn't anything wrong with it. Its just a standard hybrid LA/Lifepo4 setup. Though we just don't want to crank off the lithiums with this VSR connected as i've heard thats not a good thing to do with them.
EDIT 2: We have set the tolerances on the BMS quite low, so when the pack voltage hits 14.2v it disconnects from the system. This still gives it enough SoC to efficiently work on passively balancing the cells, and anything else can be trickled in by the solar over time.
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6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
Originally non-bi-directional VSRs were available, they may still be. However, I am not sure of the wisdom of charging a lithium in that way because of the need for a different charging profile and the need to shut the charging down to prevent damage.
Ah sorry forgot to saw we are running the lithiums through a BMS which has been configured for hybrid, so shouldn't run into those issues theoretically.
5 minutes ago, BEngo said:Not all VSR's are dual sensing. If you find a single sense one, and connect it right the Li will be disconnected when the alternator shuts down. It will not cure the problem of possible overcharging of the Li.
Single alternator with B2B is there to avoid floating the Li at excessive voltages and overcharging it.
In a 12V set up. Once the Li is fully charged at about 3.64 V per cell and the voltage is the same across all the cells in the pack (top balanced) you want to STOP charging entirely. Holding the battery at 14.6v or more when full causes it to carry on trying to charge and is * bad* for the Li. So the B2B is brought in. This should be set to charge until 14.6V is reached, to hold this for a short period, typically an hour but it depends a bit on the B2B and the Li battery size and make. After that, the B2B goes to float at say 13.2 V. This is less than battery voltage so the Li is not charged. Once the Li voltage drops the B2B starts up again and the cycle repeats. All the while though the alternator has been holding the start battery at 14.6 V, which is OK for a less acid. Exact best voltages need to be looked up in the battery data sheets.
The solar MPPT should be set up in a similar fashion to the B2B. Constant current to 14.6V, hold for a short while, float at 13.4 V or less.
I think Moomin Papa has a successful single A127 based hybrid. No doubt he will be along.
N
Thanks for the info, yeah we have all charge parameters set up and the BMS is set up to stop the engine overcharging or floating it at high voltage for too long.
Also the one we have does technically only sense on the starter side for activation, its the disconnection that is the issue it seems.
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I ran into an interesting issue recently when I was installing a lithium battery into a friends boat. He wanted to go hybrid which didn't seem a problem to me at the time. The thought process we came up with was as follows:
Alternator -> Starter Battery -> VSR -> Lithium
The logic being that the engine will use the starter battery to crank until the alternator kicks in and the starter battery voltage rises. This then activates the the VSR and parallels it with the lithium bank. When the engine is stopped then the starter voltage will drop and disconnect the VSR. What we didn't realise is that the VSR units don't only detect one side for disconnection. so while cranking worked fine, once the engine was stopped the lithium bank and even the solar was propping up the starter voltage through the VSR. As such we were uncomfortable trying to crank the engine again with the lifepo4 bank paralleled.
I've seen plenty of hybrid setups on dual-alternator systems utilising lead acid leisure batteries in parallel with lithium, but haven't seen much in the say of a single alternator system using the hybrid model. They tend to use B2B chargers. My question is: Is this the reason why? Or is there a modification I can make to this that i'm missing?
Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
EDIT 1: We are also using a BMS configured for a hybrid setup to ensure no mistreatment of the lithium battery while on charge.
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On 05/12/2022 at 11:48, RichM said:
Would recommend a Ninja Foodi multi cooker over a conventional air fryer, specifically the new style one with the smart lid. (Original ones have 2 lids making it cumbersome)
Air fryers are somewhat limited in terms of what they can be used for, but the Ninja Foodi multi cooker adds so much more functionality, e.g.
- Pressure cooking- Sear/saute
- Slow cooking
- Steam
- Bake/roast
And more...
Personally wouldn't limit myself to an air fryer when the multi cooker can do that and more. I now never use my oven at all and the gas hob is very rarely used. Everything takes so much less time to cook with less mess and fuss. Very well constructed. Can't fault it but it did take a little getting used to.
It does say in the instruction manual that it's not to be used on boats but it's very sturdy so unlikely to be an issue on calm waterways.
This is the one I have but I think I only paid £230 for it.
https://ninjakitchen.co.uk/product/ninja-foodi-11-in-1-smartlid-multi-cooker-6l-ol550uk-zidOL550UKThey are somewhat big/bulky and quite heavy too. Probably not ideal if you only have a small galley with limited worktop space. Also need to ensure there is sufficient room to open the lid.
I'd like to second the ninja foodi, I have one on board, can run it with my generator or off my 1500w inverter. Its an absolute life saver!
I have one of these models:
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Ran the generator this morning to make breakfast and to see how it handled. Overheated within 10 minutes. This time I definitely see a coolant fault light on the control panel. Also the coolant was boiling out of the overflow hose. I've got a mechanic headed out tomorrow, figured better safe than sorry for this particular job. Thanks for all the advice everyone, will report back with what the issue was when it's over.
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19 minutes ago, Slim said:
Not familiar with the generator so forgive question. After the water goes through the heat exchanger does it continue on through the alternator before departing the generator? If so it may be a partial blockage beyond where you've checked. I checked mine by disconnecting the pipe at the alternator in and out points, attaching a piece of pipe and giving a good blow.
There wasn't a great deal of wear on mine either. (Johnson pump) but sufficient to reduce flow.
Just checking do you mean impeller? If so then yeah I have cleared out the while circuit
15 minutes ago, magnetman said:I think the Beta marine is an air cooled genny. Not the engine obviously
The smaller generator sets use water cooled generator heads built into the cooling circuit of the engine in order to minimise the package size.
This one is quite a big set so I think air cooled on the copper bits.
I'm afraid I have no idea regarding the air cooling. I know the Markon SL105 is air cooled and that bit doesn't seem to be having any issues.
Also an update: I checked the coolant levels since topping it up and running the genny, it has dropped to where it was previously. I assume that means it was full and ejected the excess from the overflow tube. I guess this means topping it up didn't fix it and it will overheat again, as essentially nothing is different now.
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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:
If you run it with the header tank cap off, do you still get the hiss when it stops?
The hissing as stopped totally now that i've filled the coolant up to the top.
2 minutes ago, Slim said:What was the condition of the old 'Jabsco' impeller when you serviced it? Did it have any vanes missing or bits out of some?. Was there any significant wear on the front plate of the pump? Both were reasons for my raw water generator to overheat.(Separate occasions)
The old jabsco impeller was pretty torn up, i went through the pipe and the heat exchanger and removed all fragments of impeller from the line. Also there was no major wear on the impeller plate.
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1 minute ago, magnetman said:
I don't think the impeller pump circuit is as hot because there is water always flowing through it. That is assuming the inlet is not blocked or course.
If the header tank was low then it must be something to do with the coolant circuit. Is there a thermostat housing somewhere which could have a leaky gasket?
I'm going to try looking for that, the leak only happens very briefly. So next time i stop the engine i'll have a helper ready by the engine to try and find the source of the drip.
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3 minutes ago, magnetman said:
As it had overheated and been stopped by the cutout circuit the sound might have been coming from the lid on the header tank. They have a spring in then to release extra pressure.
This was my first thought but chucking my head in there pointed me towards the area of the engine with the belt, so i thought water pump or maybe the impeller pump.
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It appears to have resolved after topping up the coolant, no stalling or hissing. I'm going to continue to keep an eye on it as there appears to be a very small drip from the impeller pump which stops shortly after turning the generator off. I'm going to hesitantly say its fixed for now but will continue to monitor it.
Thanks for all the help
16 minutes ago, frangar said:Most decent genset panels have warning lights for coolant/oil/over & underspeed etc....Does yours have such a panel? Its also fairly common generator practice to have any such fault shut the engine down to prevent damage...unlike a propulsion engine which will run with all sorts of warnings till it fails.
It might even be that you have a faulty sensor providing false information which is shutting the engine down.
Mine has this panel, but didn't notice any fault lights on when the engine stalled. However it may be that I didn't get to it in time to see the fault light. It's a long boat and I move slowly.
18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:Could it be that 'something' is pressurising and the noise you hear after the engine is switched off is it slowly escaping and depressurising ?
Maybe the drips you see is the pressurised 'steam' condensing.
A car with a boiling radiator will huff and puff for a while after the engine is turned off.
Just trying to make anything fit the facts.
Yeah I'm thinking the same. Going to keep an eye on it for now and check it regularly when I turn it off
Engine alternator issue: dim light when engine running
in Boat Equipment
Posted
Prestolite Electric is the manufacturer. A127 is the generic model