davehindle

Here's another update for those of you still interested. The injection pump came back from Dale's looking lovely and, of course, properly calibrated. The mobile mechanic installed it, bled the lines and - after a while - got it started. No change - still as smoky as ever. I hope that this tale of woe will help someone in future. You can try absolutely everything that anyone can think of and you can still get nowhere. We will be a smoky boat now until we can afford a refurbed unit.

I have engaged the services of an excellent mobile engineer - I just couldn't shift the pump! After a bit of wangling he managed to get the thing unstuck and made some progress. With a slight rotation the engine note picked up nicely but there was still a lot of smoke. The pump has now gone to Dale's for a refurb. Watch this space......

I wouldn't be surprised if it had been glued - the engine has not been well cared for - or it could just have cemented by age.

Hi Mike Funny that - mine's just the same, the bottom bolt is only finger tight - I guess a lot of owners don't want to tighten that one once they've got it loose. I've tried rotating the pump but it won't budge. I've booked a mobile boat engineer for Monday - hopefully he'll have the knack....

Hi All Here's an update: I took the injectors up to Dale's for testing and they were fine. I took the cylinder head to Allard's, who skimmed the face, reground the valves and seats and decoked. They also noticed that one pair of valve stems was missing retaining clips - they fitted new ones. I put the whole thing back together - carefully, with a full set of washers in each injector chamber, various new washers, clips, gaskets, etc. It took the whole of Friday but it looked great when I had finished (I also gave the head, the heat exchanger and rocker cover a lick of paint). I reset the valve clearances, changed the oil and bled the fuel lines. At this point I found that the battery was virtually dead so it took me another before trying to start it (I'm reading your tb-training on alternators, Tony - thanks for this). It was very reluctant to start - far worse than before. Interestingly, I had the same problem when I only put in the missing atomiser washers. The smoke problem was also worse - though it improved to around as bad as it used to be after an hour of cruising. The only thing that has been suggested to me that I have not done is to adjust the pump timing. I had a cautious look into doing that a few weeks back but I couldn't shift the pump and decided to leave it rather than risk over-rotating it. My plan is now to get a mechanic out to it.

Thanks Tony, Thanks Dan I will replace the whole lot. I tried straightened piece of coat-hanger with the tip bent over but it was just too soft. I'll try your other ideas Tony.

The problem I have is that all this material is jammed down the hole. How do I get it out?

Hi Tony. I think you are right. I took photos and the metal at the bottom is silver coloured.

Hi Tony Great tips again but I think you misunderstood my post. The comments I made (1 and 2) relate to the manual rather than my actual observations of my engine. The manual tells us we need 1 washer under the banjo bolt but none under the spill rail. It also tells us we need a total of three in the injector chamber - thanks for confirming this. I have now extracted my injectors and I see that I do have heat shields (they look a bit rough - the holes in a couple of them look a bit misshapen). What I did find was that none of the heat shields had atomiser washers. Thanks for advising that I don't need to take the heat shields out - I tried but they wouldn't budge. I will install new atomiser washers and reassemble the injectors with their existing heat shields and joint washers. Thanks again Dave

Hi All I haven't looked inside yet so I don't know what is missing / present but before I start replacing what I think is missing, can you have a look at this please? I've taken this from the workshop manual - blown up the injector part of the diagram, removed the irrelevant engine parts and added the text for each of the numbers on the original. Two things jump out at me: 1. There seem to be three washers in the injector chamber, not two - one 'joint washer' under the heat shield, the atomiser washer and a joint washer between the injector and the heat shield. Does the 'joint washer for injector' sit on the brim of the top hat or is it not needed? 2. There is only one 'washer for banjo bolt' marked, not two. Comments in this thread and the contents of the washer kit suggest that there is a copper fuel washer above and below the spill rail.

By the way - I replaced the nozzles in a attempt to fix the smoke problem. It was no more smoky after the change - and it ran a little better but not much.

Hi Tony I just took them apart and replaced the nozzles - removing and replacing whatever parts I found already there. As I said, I annealed the washers I found on the assumption that since they were there when I took the old nozzles out, they should be there when I put the new ones in. Thanks to everyone here for explaining how the old assembly is wrong. I will ensure I have: plain washer, heat shield, atomisation washer, injector in that order.

Hi Tony I didn't see an extra hole next to the pintle (it was one of these from ASAP: https://www.asap-supplies.com/brands/bmc-leyland/injector-nozzle-only-bmc-1-5-diesel). All I've ordered a complete set of washers from Calcut. I'll take the injectors out when I get them and take a look again. My prediction is that I will find top hats in all four chambers but plan copper washers over three of them and nothing over the 4th. I'll extract the top hats to check that the plane washers are present behind them and fit them if they are absent, replace the top hats and fit the atomisation washers, refit the injectors with a full complement of spill rail washers and see where I am. If I find the top hats are missing, I'll need to order them separately. I will keep you posted. Thanks for all your help.

Crikey Tony - sounds like mine might be totally wrong. The copper washers came out with three of the injectors and not the other. There were no atomisation washers down there - I see I can get these from ASAP but where would I get top hats if they really are missing? Google doesn't seem to know them by that name. I wouldn't be surprised if the copper washers have been fitted where the atomisation washers should be so perhaps the top hats are there after all - it does take some persuasion to get it started but its not as bad as you suggest it would be if the top hats were completely absent and as I say it smokes a lot when its not under load. Found them: http://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/BM12H218 Looks like I'm going to have to have a poke around and see what's there and what's missing.

Thanks Ray - Nice Grebe!

Hi Sam These are the nozzles I fitted: https://www.asap-supplies.com/brands/bmc-leyland/injector-nozzle-only-bmc-1-5-diesel These are the washers I found down the holes and annealed: https://www.asap-supplies.com/injector-nozzle-copper-washer-199121-11b276 I guess these are the fuel washers you mention (though these seem to be only one size): https://www.asap-supplies.com/copper-washer-injector-leakoff-rail I saw nothing resembling a top hat except maybe the nozzle itself? Thanks again Dave

Thanks both. You have lost me on a bit of the terminology here! Fire and fuel connection washers? When I had the injectors out, there were large copper washers down each hole. I could not get one of them out but annealed the other three before refitting the injectors. Top hat units? I'll be taking the head to Allards when I'm next in their vicinity - they tell me they used to get a lot of these engines and seemed to know what they were talking about (like knowing about the chambers with the brass covers - I thought they were precombustion chambers - so they're Ricardo chambers?). From what you say I should get them to inspect the valve seats? Many Thanks

Hi Sam Thanks for the tips. I've read quite a lot about this already and am working on the unburnt fuel hypothesis (which is why I'm going for a skim next time - on the assumption that a crappy head seal will give me poor compression). I have tried adjusting the timing by twisting the pump but it won't budge (and I'm a bit scared of getting it badly wrong). I was interested in David's post because he mentions getting bad smoking when off load. Our engine barely smokes when we're cruising, its only bad when its in neutral on a tick-over rev (which is a bind when doing locks, as David says). We are definitely getting misfires from time to time (occasionally it coughs and puts out a puff of extra smoke) but this is intermittent. Any comments on the additional details above will be warmly received. Thanks Dave

Hi David I see this conversation is rather old now but I'd be very interested to know if you resolved your 'smoky off load' problem as I have the same thing with the same make and model. Our BMC 1500 is pretty well behaved cruising but smokes badly in neutral on tick-over. I've adjusted valve clearances, replaced the missing thermostat, put in a new head gasket and new injector nozzles and not made much progress. It wasn't well-looked after when we got it and its running better now its had some TLC, but still smokes. I believe I'm looking at unburnt diesel rather than oil but am willing to accept that I'm no expert and could be wrong about that. My next step is a head skim. Did you resolve it? What was the problem? Thanks Dave