WJD

Ian guess we will just have to agree on some things and disagree on others. Although I do think what we have in common is a desire for the canals to continue to operate and flourish. But without real investment I personally think it may not be long before they are closed again. Sad really. I don't make myself out to be an expert but I was bloody good at my job as were my fellow lock keepers at the time. As for Capercaillie, they are still registered at company house, so it's my belief they are still an independent company. They are still advertising their boats for hire, but through SC at Falkirk Wheel. I follow them and Re Union with great interest and I am sent regular updates from company house. A hobby of mine. pass my best regards to Anne. best wishes to you both. Does not take much to wind you up does it.?

Quite a few accusations in your long reply Ian. Not to be unexpected when you are wearing your rose tinted spectacles. I never blamed the volunteers for the lock 6 incident. You really should read the post again. I mentioned the training aspect only. There are other ways to stop a boat quickly in a lock using the boats ropes. Obviously you have not had to do this. Secondly having to cut the ropes was due to the individual on the boat not listening after being told to hold the rope slack. She tied it tight. We stopped lowering the boat and showed her again how to do it, but after a couple of minutes, she tied it tight again. If we had not been monitoring the boat we would not have been able to save it. All of your accusations are based on your close ties to the company who employ the volunteers. You are one of the volunteers and you were also a skipper for the company involved. So I fully understand your bias. I was trained by the best for lock keeping and bridge duties, so I take it as a personal insult from you about the expertise side. As I have already said, I don't hide my dislike of using volunteers. It has put people out of work who needed the money. Not me by the way. I walk and drive the canals often, and take photographs where I see faults. You will never change Ian. As for the hire boat fiasco, Capercaillie played poker and lost out. No answer to why they are still on the canal after threatening to leave at end of 2017 season. At least with Anne I can have a kind of reasoned debate.

I am sending an FOI request to SC to ask for these incident statistics. I believe that if there were any they would be in the West as they are difficult locks to operate. Do you also know that a hire boat can pass under Twechar without the bridge being opened. I saw it when a hire boat would not wait for us and just kept close to the ram side of the bridge. He passed through without hitting boat or bridge. Very slowly of course, but proved it can be done. Would also depend on level of water in canal. And what happened with Capercaillie due to move to England last year. I notice their boats still on the canals up here.

Must have been the volunteers grapevine you heard that rumour on Anne. I have been monitoring numerous lockings since volunteers came on board. I had to stop my car one day as they were trying to move a yacht with a good draft through 3 feet of water and blaming the skipper for his prop keeping getting fouled with weed. You can teach repetitiveness, you can't teach experience. It had taken 6 hours from lock 3 to lock 12. I don't like anyone knocking the casual seasonals, but then your hubby is one of the volunteers which might cloud your judgement. I have never hidden my thoughts on volunteers. The guys themselves are keen and it gives them confidence for the future. They get paid nothing but the parent company gets paid by SC. I am glad to hear though that the hire boat insurance is paying for the repair.

Not CRT trained my friend. SC trained volunteers. Obviously this was a boat skipper issue, but IMHO the volunteers are not trained to deal with this kind of accident. Bring back the returning seasonal staff. They had a wealth of knowledge of the canal and of the problems encountered with hire boats. Not the first time I have cut ropes for a boat hanging up while being lowered in the lock. Or having to refill lock to get hire boat off the cill. All done in a hurry but with constant monitoring of the boat in the lock. As for the bridges, I think it is a way for SC to put pressure on Gov to hand out more money. The 2 bridges in question have had the same type of issues for years. As for Leamington it should have a statutory inspection due to use of wire ropes to lift and lower it. There is no money pit. Certainly not the backlog amount of £70 million required to bring up to scratch. And if you ask taxpayers what they want to pay extra tax for, the NHS or the canals, I think you can answer that one yourself.

There is evidence of ground panels on some of the locks. Remnants of the mechanism is there. Why or how they were taken away is not known. But a very interesting drawing.

Hi Ian l remember you well young man. In fact we had long conversations about the canals and owning a boat before you and your partner decided to take the leap. I have seen your boat at its mooring and it is still looking good. Unfortunately the decisions on user op do not lie with the actual guys on the ground although there will always be an element of self preservation which is extremely understandable. They only follow SC procedures. But in defence of assisted passage there are a lot of boaters who like it. There is also the water conservation issue which can only be managed by having a set structure and not a free for all. I personally have had to cut ropes in a hurry to prevent boats in locks from capsizing due to inexperience of the tourist boaters. Anyway I hope you both continue to enjoy the experience and I hope you get that cabin on your own private island to complete the dream sometime.

Thank you for the clarity Graeme. It will answer some of the questions on this thread. I did wonder if it included all stakeholders including towpath users, cyclists, etc. Is this the case and where can I sign up.

I have seen it, done it and got the T shirt. Locks 17 to 20 have bywashes fitted and that is why they are the only ones where user operation is allowed but only after training. I agree wholeheartedly with your other comments. For which I am being monitored through other social media. For clarity I am no longer an SC employee and have posted no confidential information or anything not available on the net. I have posted from my own operational experience and knowledge of these canals which in my view quite extensive.

You can only sign up if you have a boat moored on the lowland canals. As for the locks, on the Forth and Clyde they are all double and extremely deep. These were originally built for the fishing trawlers moving from East to West and vice Versa. I may be wrong but are the majority in England single locks which are easier to navigate. There is also a good flow of water on the F&C which at times makes the locks more difficult to operate, more so for tourists and novices. Don't get me wrong, both canals are fantastic for scenery and for cruising. As for bridges I get your point on technology but unfortunately it costs money which is tight every year. To be fair to the SC board they are trying to gather more cash through different initiatives but the boaters are suffering through the simple basics being difficult to maintain all of the time. However I hope you get the chance to visit these canals sometime. You will not be disappointed even with these issues. They are worth a visit.

Every single boater, including societies and charities should sign up to the LCA. Acting alone achieves nothing and sometimes is done for self interest. As a collective more can be achieved.

Glad we agree on these issues. At the last stakeholders meeting it was minuted that the top director does not attend these meetings.

I agree totally. The canals should be open 7 days a week for all boaters. The days have been reduced I believe due to the number of transits reducing. However this should not impact on the boaters who are paying their annual fees and getting a part time service. With no reduction either for the part time service but actually an increase.

You have a point about loseable parts, but the main key is the master and there is a spare set always. If one is lost it is replaced immediately. Not same day but quick enough. If no keys available then bridge would revert to manual operation by SC so no disruption to traffic. It is a very easy bridge to operate. There are always the complications of pedestrians and of course cyclists who may object to it being opened as they have in the past. Maybe something that a boater does not want to deal with. Anyway I am sure that it will change in the future. Dont think that the present key operation will change, but you will be left with a situation same as at present that if the bridge fails for some reason, you require to calll SC for assistance. You dont have and will never have access to the bridge main control panels on any bridge. As for the manning it is done on the previous years boat movements, not the next years ones. And you are right if the traffic increases then the manning is stretched. Although there is provision for SC to offer short term contracts to increase seasonals if required. CaRT are slightly different being a trust. Their financies are not all in the one basket as they are in Scotland. I fear that the canals cash may be reduced if austerity continues. There are around 2.5million taxpayers in Scotland and in my view if asked about where money should go they may not want to have canals getting £11MIL a year at present. I have heard the stories about how the canals bring in around £25million in tourism. Its made up. It uses assumptions rather than facts. If what we are saying is that the hire fleet and transits and boaters are generating this amount of money I just dont believe it. The only improvement I see is for walkers using the towpath. Cyclists in some cases make it a dangerous place to walk as some incidents of injury to people and animals has proved. To make a point about figures. The reports say that over 2 million people used the lowland canal towpaths last year. This is not quite true as it does not take into account the same numbers who use it twice or three times a day. This is evident by the numbers on the towpath counters. If I walk to work and then walk back I am counted as two separate people. So many are counted double. The true number of people , not foot traffic using the towpaths is more likely to be around 2 thirds, if that, of the reported numbers.(and that is being conservative) As for trade there are not enough places on the canals for boaters to spend their cash. You will know that yourself. Since the millenium the canals are in a worse state than when they were reopened. More boats are up for sale due to austerity and canal pricing structures. I think we both want the same thing for the canals and the boaters, we just have some differencies in how to get there. Personally I would suggest cutting salaries at the top. You should read the annual accounts to see how much of the cash given to SC is spent on salaries and pension fund. Frightening considering how many employees there are. Just over 300 I believe. I could be wrong on this number as I have not checked it recently. It is really up to the boaters to change the way in which the canals are run. Not as separate entities but as a collective.

Ian The key system at Leamimgton is the castell type which is a safety device commonly used in critical safety operations in many industries. It is not rocket science to use it although the training may give the opposite impression. I am sure that at some point in the not to distant future that it will be full user operation. As for the commercial company we both know that really they are as good as one and the same as Reunion bought Capercaillie a few years ago. From info on company house they own 51%. This may answer some of the original posts in this thread. In fact the press release about not continuing to operate the hire fleet after this years tells you they are joined but with separate boards. As for the English locks and the F&C locks there is a big difference and I agree that some form of assisted passage will always be in place. A lot of cruise boat hirers told me that one of the main reasons they booked on these canal was in fact due to the assisted package. Although we did offer to let them join in when we were operating the locks if they had enough crew on board. On the five year plan it is easy to set a fixed number and then adjust the number slightly based on boat movements by increasing or decreasing the seasonals employed each year. I believe that if SC was not a quango then there would be no canal as they would not be commercially viable without the taxpayers who are pumping in £11 million a year at present.

Leamington is a poor example as users can only operate the bridge outside SC working hrs. Leamington was used as a political pawn by a commercial company to get a foot in the door for full user operation which is still not the case. The inference was that it impacted on their commercial profit which was never proved. It was used by SC to reduce manning. As for the rest of both canals for full user op it is not going to happen. It would be a disaster for many cruise holiday boaters who have never been in a lock before. experienced boaters could probably do it themselves but SC cannot set a five year financial plan without at least having some fixed set of numbers for staff. no matter the will of the boaters, user op is restricted at the moment and in the main the only group pushing for it are commercial. Should not bother you Ian if you are spending more time on the English canals anyway.

My comments were made implying that to get around user operation on the F&C you would have to make the bridges fixed bridges with drop locks the only way to navigate them and if you did not understand that then it just shows that some people never change.

For the 3 bridges on the F&C they are a 2 person operation plus if the bridges fail on auto which has happened many times, you have to go to control panel and switch to manual using the wand. Doubt they will ever go to user operation as one boat with 2 crew would only leave one person to open the bridge. Boaters always thought that user op would solve all of their travel issues. As part of bridge operation the emergency services are informed 24hrs in advance of booked passage. I could open the bridges on auto, stop them midway, switch to manual and have them closed again within a few minutes. User operation in Scotland won't happen unless all bridges have drop locks like Dalmuir and that would cost millions. Anyway Ian you are on a canal with no locks and 1 bridge which is opened immediately when you call. You are one of the lucky ones who can cruise for 32 miles with no obstructions. Now that must be a joy.

Many thanks And please pass on my best wishes to Ian. I hope you are both healthy and enjoying life. WJD

Seasonal payments are not a secret. They are in the advert each year for the posts. The payments to the volunteers supervisors are just lower than 4 seasonals added together. I agreed at the outset that it was a bad decision on SC part. I feel for the volunteers as it is worse than a zero hrs contract. No pay at all. As for BWS and user operation, over 40 boaters were trained on how to operate locks 17 to 20. The number of times they did it themselves is in single figures. In fact they requested assistance even though they were trained. SC management has faults and in my opinion do not value the ground staff enough. Soon it will be all chiefs and no Indians, but the canal has to stay open to maintain salaries. Some paid more than the PM and FM. The canals have a limited amount of cash and boaters will never be able to keep it afloat, pardon the pun. All boaters would have to pay thousands of pounds each which would in turn mean no boats on the canals Bad decision to split BW In England it appears to be getting better. Perhaps we have more in common than you think. Best wishes.

Hi haggis. I won't give your name away. The volunteers cost 4 seasonal jobs. I could give you the exact figures for the volunteers supervisor payments and I am sure you would be shocked but I won't. There are 2 actually. As for the experience of the seasonal returners against volunteers, the returners win sorry. Probably a little bit of bias on your part.

Unless you have it in writing, take it with a pinch of salt. Also I remember you and your boat for the right reasons. I treated everyone the same. Makes for a more enjoyable day. I am also pleased that you are delighted with the volunteers. Now that I am retired,I have been monitoring the service from lock 20 to lock 3 and have seen some good practice and some bad practice. Either poor training or not following the training. All of which I have logged. The volunteer companies say they are not out to cost SC jobs but that unfortunately is the outcome. The volunteers are unpaid while their parent company is paid. And SC seasonals have been decreased dramatically. For some of these people it was their only income. Now done for free apart from the parent company. I am not a disgruntled ex employee, as I am retired I just want to see the canals prosper with the limited funds they have. I am looking at setting up my own company to be able to tender for the contract next year and man it up with ex seasonals.

Unfortunately your information is not up to date. The Rotate project is still going through the feasability stage and has not been reported to the board yet. I remember your boat very well and trust you will remain on the canal. One of the worst decisions ever taken by the board was to move to volunteering running the locks. Although in cash terms saved very little as the company who run the volunteers are paid for this service. In my opinion this is when the service started to get worse.

Having worked on the F&C, the Union and the Wheel I can say that there will be no impact to trip boats, hire boats or private boaters. Unfortunately there are boaters and companies with their own agendas due to the pricing on these canals. These individuals are talking down the canals which could have an impact on cruiser hire in the main. The ABC hire fleet has signed an agreement with SC to continue operating the hire fleet in Scotland without Capercaille who have decided to stop trading due to the new pricing. SC is not there to subsidise businesses. Good luck to ABC for the future. It will still run like clockwork. And there will be no restrictions on the wheel which does not work to full capacity on any day.