[To compost or not to compost - The long read]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 The disposal of the waste product IS a problem. It isn't a made up problem it is just a problem. 

 

 

 

 

Not if you compost the waste. The waste is then no longer waste and can be used as any other scarce resource.

 

Of course its an issue if you start by throwing it all in a bin - but sensible people dont do that so these toilets are an excellent solution for sensible people.

[To compost or not to compost - The long read]

9 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

To Pee, or not to Pee: that is the question:

Whether 'tis nobler in the bladder to suffer

a full cassette of outrageous fortune,

Or to take arms against a hedge of brambles,

And by opposing empty it.

To die: to sleep;

No more; and by a sleep to say we end

The bladder-ache, and the thousand unnatural visits.

That flesh is heir to, 'tis a constipation

Devoutly to be flushed.

To die, to sleep;

To sleep: perchance to poo: aye, there's the rub;

For in that sleep of constipation what may come,

When we have shuffled off this mortal Thetford.

 

You've started something now. Next thing we know well have @TheBiscuits quotiing us Macbeth

[To compost or not to compost - The long read]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

To Pee, or not to Pee: that is the question:

Whether 'tis nobler in the bladder to suffer

a full cassette of outrageous fortune,

Or to take arms against a hedge of brambles,

And by opposing empty it.

To die: to sleep;

No more; and by a sleep to say we end

The bladder-ache, and the thousand unnatural visits.

That flesh is heir to, 'tis a constipation

Devoutly to be flushed.

To die, to sleep;

To sleep: perchance to poo: aye, there's the rub;

For in that sleep of constipation what may come,

When we have shuffled off this mortal Thetford.

 

Cheat, you cant have read it in that time!

[To compost or not to compost - The long read]

Dr Bob here with the duck

Well things haven't changed much here in the 2 year since my last comments on composting toilet waste. Still the same un-informed bullies, loudmouths and Crocodiles (big mouths and no ears) beating down any attempt at a reasoned argument why composting may be good on a boat. The aggression shown to Squid's 'first time' question on the topic in a recent thread shows just what a toxic place this can be. I write this note – and it is a long one – to give some hope to those who seek some real input to their decision on whether to attempt to compost their toilet waste on a boat – but it is a long read. I expect the crocodiles will give up pretty quickly. If you get bored easily then dont bother reading any further.

Let's be clear, after having a separating toilet on our boat and composting our waste for 2 years now, I can honestly say it has been the best purchase ever for a boat. This is on a boat that was brand new in 2020. After 6 months we ditched the state of the art pump out macerator toilet for a Compoost loo (anyone want to buy the toilet and holding tank?). I'm not going into detail of why it has been the best purchase. The list is too long. But believe me, it has been our best purchase.

So why am I posting such a long and rambling post on here? Well, there are a couple of big points that I think are never discussed but provide all the ammunition for the naysayers and Crocodiles to beat all who stick their heads above the parapet into submission and silence the large number of people (inc on here) who have these toilets. Maybe it will help those trying to understand if composting human waste on a boat is a viable route.

The Crocodiles can now go and spout their un-informed rubbish on other threads. For the interested, please read on.

 

The first big issue is when the Crocodiles use the phrase ' it's disgusting' when referring to separating toilets and composting of the waste solids. If you see anyone saying “it's disgusting” then you know they dont know what they are talking about. They've probably never seen a separating loo. So many of them dont even have canal boat – so how can their words be believed?

Let's look at how conventional toilets work. You sit on the bowl and deposit a load of wee and poo in the bowl (not necessarily in that order). The instant these two streams meet, enzymes in the streams start a chemical reaction which turns urea in the urine into ammonia and some other very smelly molecules. The evolution of ammonia is significant and as the volume builds you start smelling a very unpleasant smell coming from between your legs. That is disgusting. Can you remember exiting the bathroom and closing the door, saying to the next person “I'd give that 5 mins if I were you”? Yes that is disgusting. Separating toilets – if they are working properly and used properly – do not mix the wee and poo so you dont get the ammonia evolution and there is almost zero smell. In the 2 years of operation, I have never smelt the disgusting smell made by previous user (or by me). Handling the waste after (the poo box and wee bottle) is not at all smelly or unpleasant. We were up in Jockland for 4 weeks in December and using the loo in the house was an experience. Very smelly. You just dont get that on the boat.

Everyone I know who has moved to a separating toilet has said the same. I note one person on here who moved back to a conventional toilet after trying a separating toilet but I wonder if he had a well designed separating toilet or even used it right. If he had smell then something was very wrong. Separating toilets are not disgusting. What is disgusting is asking your visitors not to use the toilet after eating sweetcorn or apple cores. Well its not the asking that's disgusting, its the job needed to clean the remnants out of the duck valves in a vacuuflush system. Similarly replacing the seals in a leaking cassette and dont get me started on the state of the elsan points on the network. Disgusting is the word to describe it.

No, if someone says to you that separating toilets and composting of the solids is disgusting, then it is clear that they have no experience of the issue which then questions anything else they may utter.

 

The second big issue is can you compost human poo? This is a real issue and in defence of the Crocodiles, I can see why they may say its impossible, so how do you dispose of you untreated poo? I really can see why you are so passionate about our inability to compost. Let me try and tackle this thorny subject and bring some clarity to the debate.

I am going to digress here and declare a professional interest. I am a director of a test laboratory up in Jockland. In 20 years we have grown to be one of the countries best respected UCAS accredited test labs in the UK for testing of plastics. At the start of 2020 we expanded our expertise to cover biodegradation testing of initially plastic packaging materials and that has now grown to the point we are one of the leading test labs for biodegradation and composting in the UK. We test a range of packaging products to see if they biodegrade or can be composted (either for home or industrial composting) using a range of Eu defined test standards and methods. We test to BS EN13432, ISO 16929, PAS 9017, ISO 17556, ISO 14855 and ISO 20200 amongst others. Have a read of the BS EN 13432 standard to see what is involved. We know what composting is all about. I personally have been the technical gatekeeper for this activity so now see myself as an expert in the field.

Unfortunately however, the majority of people in the UK do not know how to compost – and that was also me 5 years ago. I've lived in a house with a garden for 40 odd years and being a keen gardener, always had a compost heap. Various heaps, boxes, machines. None worked. Filled them up in spring and summer and by next spring – nothing had happened. In 40 years I likely only ever made a few shovelfuls of good compost. Composting doesnt work, does it? Maybe that is too sweeping a statement but there is some supporting info out there.

Three months ago, University College London (UCL) wrote a paper summarising a trial they ran over 24 months, asking the public to compost in their home heaps, bins, custom designs etc, items you can buy which claimed to be 'home compostable'. The output of this was picked up by the Guardian and ran as a story claiming that over 60% of items claimed to be home compostable were not. Now, these were not just items claiming to be compostable, they were items deemed to be compostable by the accreditation organisation TUV, a very very well known Austrian company. TUV run a scheme where clients get their products tested and TUV accredit that it is all done right. The UCL study concluded over 50% of their accredited products did not home compost, things like plastic cups, wet wipes etc. We as a company do not work with TUV but the labs TUV use are bone fide labs and do things right. We know the limitations of the test methods but the huge discrepancy here is because the average Jo public doesnt know how to compost. To compost properly you need food, water and oxygen. It's really is very simple but the majority of peeps do not know that -so dont understand what composting is, how to do it or what it can achieve. Let's then look in a bit more detail at composting.

The words 'industrial composting' describes the process that the big compost makers use to make their compost. We are dealing here with aerobic composting (ie with air) and not anaerobic digestion which is a totally different process (which is where all food waste in the UK goes). Industrial composters use a 12 week cycle to complete the composting process – to turn for example garden waste into a fully composted product. Yes, only 12 weeks. The temperatures used are of the order 65°C for a couple of weeks then 55/60°C for another 6 weeks followed by <45°C for the final month. In the lab we use kit that simulates large scale Windrow composting – kit that is not a million miles away from the mini-hot bins you see used on boats for hot composting. For the ISO 16929 test, we run these bins at the temps above to monitor biodegradation and fragmentation to show what composts and what doesnt. What is absolutely clear is the things like food waste or horse manure, that we use to create the composting medium, degrade totally in the 12 weeks to a soil like, compost. It looks like soil, its smells like soil and it probably tastes like soil. The biodegradation is the action of bugs (ie bacteria etc) eating the food (the waste you put in). You can clearly measure how fast the bugs eat by I) the temperature rise and ii) the amount of CO2 evolved as they eat the long carbon chains. To multiply and eat, the bugs need food, oxygen and water. Get any of those 3 wrong and the biodegradation will not happen properly.

In performing these tests we have learnt what food the bugs like. Firstly you have to have a balanced Carbon/Nitrogen ratio but then some food is better than others. An example is sawdust vs coconut choir. Sawdust is a pig for the bugs to eat. You really need the whole 12 weeks to get that to degrade. The coconut Choir disappears in half the time. Newspaper is a pig. Too much lignin. Good quality office paper goes in half the time (far less lignin). Food waste and horse manure is a delicacy for the bugs and half way through our 12 week cycle the food waste is fully decomposed. There is a test for the maturity of a compost ie the Rottegrad test, which is used to determine the final quality of the compost.

So, where does that get us? We know we can fully biodegrade food waste and horse manure in 6 weeks at 'industrial' temperatures. The product is not food waste or horse manure. It is a fully degraded compost. It is therefore interesting to see these mini hot bins being used on boats. Yes, they really do work, and work very well. In that cold spell before Christmas at the lab, we had night time lows of -9°C and day time highs of -5°C in Livingston yet we were maintaining 60°C in a couple of hot bins we were testing to see the limits of the low temp performance. Quite a few peeps have these on their boat (they fit in an open cratch quite well), but the drawback for me is that you need to feed them with things other than poo – otherwise there is not enough food. This then doubles the amount of compost you make so disposing of it is more tricky. What's then best way to do it on a boat? Human manure degrades exactly the same way and at the same speed as food waste/horse manure - chemically it is almost the same.

I talked about food, oxygen and water but the other key input is temperature. Typically chemical reactions half in speed if you drop the temperature by 10°C. This means composting speeds reduce as the composting temperature goes down. If then you can aim to drop temperatures from the 60's/50's to 40/30's you will basically quadruple the times seen in the industrial composting work. This is what we do on the boat. We have 3 * 40L boxes. Our poo bin is emptied into box 1 (on the crusier stern every 5 to 6 days). It takes circa 12 weeks to fill the box. It is then transferred to a similar volume box(es) on the roof and box 1, now empty is ready to take the next 12 weeks of poo. 3 months later box 1 is emptied into the 3^rd 40L box. We are not full time liveaboards (but on the boat all summer) – but extrapolating we make circa 160L of solid waste a year which decays down to around 120L. With a decent size boat (ie 65ft) we have loads of roof space so storing this amount of solids in not a chore. In the summer the dark blue roof gets to 65 to 70°C more days than it doesn't so allows you to get a lot of heat into the roof boxes. Our poo mix is fully composted down to compost only in 6 months max in the summer (ie a couple of months on the roof) and the the stuff produced in the Oct- Feb time is fully composted after starting the first part of the summer on the roof. From my experience of knowing what compost looks like at various stages of decomposition, I can see how well ours is composted. At the end of the 6 months (summer waste) or 9 month (winter waste), I can see that we have perfect compost which is no longer poo. We use that 120L direcct for our plant pots, half for the summer pots and half for the winter pots. No soil. Just compost. Last summer we had the best tomatoes in the marina. As the compost has seen temps of 50-60°C and spent 6 months well aerated, all the pathogens are dead. It is absolutely fascinating to see a box containing a mix of human poo and coconut choir change before your eyes in 6 months to be a non toxic valuable resource.

A long way back up this thread, I said that it was impossible to home compost. For most it is. For most they will look in disbelief that you can turn turds into compost. It is totally a surprise that you can do it with very little effort if you do it properly. Once you get over that hurdle then it suddenly dawns on you that you can compost human waste on a boat – and all of a sudden a separating toilet becomes an option. Yes guys, it works. It's not disgusting. Using the heat of the roof of the boat gets you to the point where you can compost in a short space of time.

The wee bottle ….you ask? Down the elsan (that's how I know what a crap state they are left in!) or down a toilet. Siiimple.

Obviously the Crocodiles who are on my blocked list will not get any replies from me on this thread but if anyone needs more info then the best thing is to go over to the farcebook site on boat composting as there are some very knowledgable people over there with a wealth of information. You wont get a sensible discussion over here.

Definitely the best thing we ever bought for the boat...but make sure you get a properly designed one that works.

See you all in another 2 years to see if you've all lightened up.

[Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

The cells in '1' are always out of sync with the other 3, which are much closer. I have assumed that a high delta (27mV) is not acceptable, or the balance could be better.

Here is a screenshot of when I was charging last year, not 13.8, but not far off. Thanks for you input.

 

The initial balancing was done at a max of 10A.

 

I'm with Nick on this one. That doesnt look too bad. Ok cell  1 is a laggard by 70mV at 13.5V (40A charge) which is a bit low but the important bit is when it gets a bit more charge in it. By 13.8V at 40A,  my SoC/voltage curve is starting to get into the knee and then my laggard cell starts increasing faster. I would say that if you are not over 100mV delta at your normal charge cut off point (I always finish my charge at 13.8V) then why worry. It's obviously fine at the bottom end as well. As I said early, its not budged in 4 years since my earlier faffing round trying to balance them. I've given up faffing around.

[Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?]

15 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Here is a screenshot from today. For your brain cells 

 

Rusty,

I am a bit confused with the display but taking a huge leap .....based on my system, this is what I see.

 

Your bank is at 12.5v but under a load of circa 30A. That says to me your rested voltage is circa 12.8v. That says you are at the bottom end of the voltage range so 20-30% SoC. You are starting then to be in the bottom drop off of cell voltage and your cells will start moving apart. Your max delta is 120mV which I consider fine. Mine is pretty much the same. I operate mine between 12.9V and 13.3v. That doesnt say to me you have a problem with balance. If you charge them up to 13.8v using say 40A, what are the cell deltas then? For me that is the real test.

 

The duck did not fancy going into the oven!

[Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?]

4 minutes ago, Craig Shelley said:

As far as I'm aware, LiFePO4 shouldn't be producing vapour, and in dry conditions flat surfaces shouldn't be seizing or corroding together.

 

 

Rusty,

being a very qualified muppet, I can exclusively report that when put my LiFePO4 system together (is it that long ago ...4 years?) I used no anti-corrosive stuff at all. The batteries are inside the bote and I've had no issues at all. Over 4 years on, I have a set of batteries that are responding exactly the way they were when i set them up and did the initial balancing work. The balance has remained exactly the same for 3.5 years and the voltage/power out curve is exactly as it was. I reckon they will be the same in 2033 (I might not be!).

Mind you, it is Friday 13th next week which also happens to be Mrs Bob's birthday. Any ideas for a pressy?

 

Maybe Craig is right. Do you need it?

 

All the discussion on Li's vs lead acids on her back in 2018/19/20. Its a no brainer. Its been great sitting on the bleeding edge .......and never fell off.

 

 

[Phone problems, again]

4 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

 On the boat I have a router with a EE sim card in it and it's rare to have problems.

 

Yep, fully agree.

[Phone problems, again]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Three months eh. Fantastic. I thought the 4 counties ring was sposed to be a challenge to do in 4 weeks.

We kept stopping near pubs and found it difficult to untie the ropes the following morning.

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

I can't afford the diesel to go boating anymore, so spent the summer swimming the canal at Tring summit.

 

Someone stole my dog.

I'm  thinking of getting a horse to tow ours.

 

Tring sounds a bit too west for you!

[Phone problems, again]

8 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

How goes it Dr Bob. Long time no see. Done any boating this year?

Hi Rusty

 

yea, we had 3 months out drifting round in early summer. Did the 4 counties ring in 9 weeks.

 

How are you doing? You're looking a bit rustier? Lost the dog?

[Phone problems, again]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I guess you are in a pickle if you are moored at Branston.

Frozen pickle today

[Phone problems, again]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I tried that. But with heinz sight wish I never bothered.

Its about the only thing that works in Braunston, where we are.

[Phone problems, again]

36 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I left T-mobile and went with Orange. I left Orange and went with Giffgaff. I left Giffgaff and went with Vodafone. I left Vodafone and went with O2. I left O2 and went with EE. I left EE and went with Lebara. I left Lebara and went with Voxi.

 

Maybe try a couple of baked bean cans and a bit of string?

[Phone problems, again]

29 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

What do you do the other 1%?

Usually beans on toast.

[Phone problems, again]

I have an unlimited data sim with '3' and a 500Mb data sim with EE. 99% of the time we have the EE sim in. Nuff said.

[Phone problems, again]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

So I have a mobile phone which is with Three.

I notice that it seems to use the mobile network which I assumed is the internet. Anyways, it just says "call not sent" .I've had this before, I'm near a pub, and not far from a town. Why is this phone not connecting?

If you ever get it connected to the internet again, check the 'Three' site for its coverage map. I fine 'three' nowhere near as good as EE in our travels round the network with a number of areas with poor connectivity. I use both networks to make sure I can usually get a signal which usually works but not always.

[Fat boats on the North Oxford]

56 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

 

I seem to recall that widebeam passages of Braunston and Blisworth tunnels can only be booked first thing in the morning. So why not the same on the North Oxford?

Well of course they (the CRT) could, but they could also just ban them. What is the CRTs intention? We dont know. When they brought in the restrictions a few years back, the wording says that fat boats can make a passage if they inform the CRT first. I thought at the time I heard that they were trying to discourage fat boats and they would only allow 'essential' trips (ie not lesiure trips). The wording on the restrictions however allows any trip. I have asked the CRT in an email to clarify and they have not responded to me. We need to know their intentions - do they encorage leisure trips or not, up and down the North Oxford?

[Fat boats on the North Oxford]

6 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Well it's not Miles Away. They are still here.

It looks like it is the new Aqualine fat boat that was launched 4-5 weeks ago for commissioning. It has been sat near the slipway since it was put in with the occasional 'visitor' - presumably to kit it out. I've just noticed now that its gone - and was defo there this morning. I would guess therefore that this is a 'once only' transit and it was at Dunchurch just to be launched.

 

 

 

Yep, someone saw it leave this morning crewed by a number of blokes wearing life jackets - looked like a boat moving company I was told. Hopefully one way trip only.

[Fat boats on the North Oxford]

1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:

Only just checked my mail, this arrived at 10:33am. Who knows if they were only just informed of plans or if it’s a delay at their end.

 

Well it's not Miles Away. They are still here.

It looks like it is the new Aqualine fat boat that was launched 4-5 weeks ago for commissioning. It has been sat near the slipway since it was put in with the occasional 'visitor' - presumably to kit it out. I've just noticed now that its gone - and was defo there this morning. I would guess therefore that this is a 'once only' transit and it was at Dunchurch just to be launched.

 

 

[Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?]

13 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Many will consider this overkill, and I dont have a good enough understanding of the risks to know one way or the other, but I've ended up with three BMV712s monitoring my batteries.

The day to day management is done by a BMV-712 that is set to switch off the various chargers when the battery SoC gets to 80%, via a tiny cable that feeds into their BMS inputs. When the SoC falls below 55%, the MPPTs are switched back on again automatically.

I don't entirely trust the SoC measurement as I know it can drift a bit over time, so the second level of protection is the more normal one, which is based on the charge profile of the MPPTS and B2Bs that I'm using. 

I

 

Tony, I am probably one of the few people with direct experience of what you are doing as I have a very similar system, a hybrid LA/Li set up with B2B's, long wires controlled by a BMV 713 and a BEP switch. I do think you are overcomplicating it a tad! There is two sides to this i) the technical set up and ii) how it is operated in practice. Lets look at these separately.

Firstly the technical bit. For me the first level of control has to be the charge source reducing its input when a set level is reached, rather than the isolation switch activated. You say your first line of defence is the isolation activated when you get to 80% SoC. If you are using solar, then the MPPT will work fine to turn down to float so your isolation switch will never be needed. If you are on the alternator for charge then the B2B's will turn down once the set level is needed. I assume your isolation switch is the BEP. In the 4 years I have operated my system, my BEP has not activated once (on its own). I test it infrequently. For me the first level must not rely on the isolation switch.

You then say you need 3 BMVs. Why are you controlling on SoC? On my BMV, SoC is pretty useless after a couple of weeks since sync. Why not use voltage? My BMV is set to trigger the relay for high voltage at 13.9V. This is an absolute value. My state of charge limit is always the same – when the alternator gets to 13.9v at circa 50A (drops from 120A at start). The SoC reading could be anything. One advantage of using voltage is that the BMV has a high level and low level relay so the one BMV does both. That removes your 2^nd BMV, and also allows your charge sources to shut down rather than relying on the BEP.

The BMV voltage is my second line of defence but as above it is never normally triggered. My third defence is the BMV sounding an audible (just) alarm at 14.0V volts, then a fourth - a cell monitoring device that activates the BEP if an individual cell goes above 3.8V and then a final audible alarm if the whole lot goes over 14.4V. The automated isolation is all via the BEP switch which is a vulnerability in the way Tom's Tyco bipolar relay could fail, but shutting down the charge sources in normal operation has to be the way to do it.

I think though that you have to look at normal operation. I very rarely get anywhere near isolation events. I see 2 modes of operation, moving and stationary. An example from this summers 3 months trip out. In the stationary mode, we are tied up not going anywhere. Our 200Ah of power has gone out overnight (and previous 24hrs) and the BMV is showing -200Ahrs. The sun starts charging, we run the engine for an hour to warm the water (putting circa 100Ahr back in). The sun does the rest and the mppt goes into float at the end of the afternoon. No intervention at all. No B2B running – just straight from the solar to Li's. Lack of sun one day and I run the engine for an extra 30 mins. Never any chance of getting near full charge with the engine. I will turn it off after the time I estimate. If I died in the interim, the BEP would isolate it. In moving mode, we are down -200Ahrs at the start of the day. I know we will be charged enough after circa 60 mins and the B2B will shut down the charge then. In practice though I have given up with the B2B's (2* 60A) as they consume so much power and heat up the boat! …..and I just manually isolate the Li's when the voltage gets to circa 13.8V. If I want it automatic then the B2Bs are fine but I am always watching the instruments as we idle along so spending 10 secs to turn a switch is not a chore. It really is so simple.

Now the solar is loosing its efficiency, when stationary, we just run the engine for 90 mins instead of 60 – but we are a very heavy power user.

I do use 2 BMVs, one on the Li system that does all the controlling and one on the LA system. Both are needed to understand battery health for the two banks.

Anyway, well done on setting up your system. It sounds complicated to the non initiated but it isnt. I would certainly encourage you to move to isolating the charge sources at source and then using voltage to control the BMV rather than SoC in an emergency situation.

 

How do you monitor your system with the 3 BMVs? I have mine wired into a Raspberry Pi which dumps all the data to the Victron server (data 24/7) so can see all of the data from the last year from my armchair.

 

For peeps new on here who dont know me, (who can you trust on the internet these days?)my electrical knowledge is significantly lacking when compared to Nick and Simon (MP) so my system was developed from a 'user' approach rather than a technical approach and one where I could marry 2^nd hand Li's to a new boat where I didnt want to void any warranties – hence the hybrid. I do however consider myself an expert on Li batteries, particularly in their safety as I am director of a company working closely with the aviation industry setting standards (via destruction testing) on their transport on passenger aeroplanes and also developing new technology for early warning of battery failure leading to ignition or explosions (ie during dendrite failure).

 

 

[Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

Almost all the secondhand EV lithium batteries from cars today are NCO chemistry or similar, definitely *not* recommended for boats due to fire risk (LFP are fine).

You might possibly find LFPs from early installations in vans and buses (like Peter did) but this was before EVs took off --  😉

I didnt ask for sources of LiFePO's from cars. It's obvious that the new car sources are out of the question. You do realise do you that there were a number on here before you got interested that sourced Li's from the EV market - not just Peter? That is why I asked Peter (who knows about the sources) rather than you (who doesnt know about the sources). Those sources are still there with batteries 4 years older - and likely in much larger quantity as they are now 4 years older.

 

[Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?]

16 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

 

We know that the 'long wire' parallel/lead acid method works ok for charging them with an existing alternator, as proven by several knowledgeable members here, so at this point I'm starting to think its as good as chance for electrical novices to get into lithiums as we're likely to see for a couple of years.

 

 

Well said.

A simple hybrid system is working very well for me. Li's at £500 for 100Ah brings the price to a decent point. I've lost touch with the 2nd Li's from the EV market - interested to hear what the current pricing is - and where those batteries (ie LiFePO's) come from - Peter?

 

 

15 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Just a warning that if you don't connect the Sterling batteries via a battery-to-battery charger the 5 year warranty is invalidated.

 

It'll probably work fine, but you "pays your money and takes your chances."

 

In related news they are about to have a very good 150Ah one going cheap on their clearance section - it was mine and the Bluetooth module died, so they simply replaced the battery with a brand new one under the warranty.  The cells are fine and the BMS works fine, you just can't monitor it over Bluetooth.

 

That does worry me a bit. If the Bluetooth module dies, what else is suspect? I'm glad I have my bare Thundersky's where I know exactly what is attached and I can put a number of layers of protection on them. For me, the main area of weakness in my system is the BMV battery monitor - which is my main way of monitoring the system - but these seem pretty bulletproof... well done Victron.

[Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

He's not here frequently any more 

 

.....er how can I be here frequently if the last post before this current round was 2nd July? I frequently look for infrequent postings but frequently am disappointed.

My infrequent red thermometer has been infrequently used since May as the stove has been in dormant mode awaiting the injection of some solid fuel and an ignition source. That cant be more than 3 or 4 weeks away....EEK!!!!

 

Sorry to hear about Tom's blow out but 2 blown alternators sounds expensive.

I'm using the BEP switch for charging and discharging (rather than the latching relay) but my strategy is for the charging source to back off or be isolated before the isolation switch activated so it is only to be used in an emergency. I do test it from time to time (infrequently - every 3 months or so) and do have an audible alarm if there was a failure.

 

Tom, why did the alternator blow? When the tyco activates, the 12V LA in your system takes the surge. What happened when the relay blew?

[Fat boats on the North Oxford]

17 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

Q: What is the longest word in the English language?

A: "Smiles". Because there is a mile between its first and last letters!

I was trying to think how this relates to the subject of the thread but then realised that it hasnt got the word 'away' in it.

[Fat boats on the North Oxford]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

But, go on?

 

I just thought I'd provide some up to date information on a bote everyone seems to be writing about. Mr Away is pressure washing it as we speak. The bote that is, not the whippet.